Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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UN demands Israel end 'unlawful' presence in Palestinian territories within 12 months
https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...nian-territories-within-12-months-2024-09-18/
Everything happens in slow motion except the genocide.
Says Judas who was selling the Palestinians down the drain in exchange for tech and a nuclear program four years ago.
I would take anything MBS says with a truckload of salt. The man is a cunning piece of shit without any principle, or interest in a Palestinian state whatsoever. His court also majoritarily shares the same opinion.
His vision of the Middle-East doesn't encompass Palestine which he would happily see gone. He will turn his coat without any second thoughts the moment the situation allows it.
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I think UAE declared the same
"A horrific massacre where bread and plates of food were stained with blood.20 martyrs, including 13 children, 6 women, and an unborn child, with nearly 30 injured, among them 9 children suffering from limb amputations, as a result of an Israeli airstrike targeting Al-Zeitoun "C" school, which shelters thousands of displaced people in the Al-Zeitoun neighborhood, south of Gaza City".
x.com/AnasAlSharif0/status/1837453786702373065
x.com/AnasAlSharif0/status/1837453786702373065
wroth reading the thread to see what the mood is:
(OP has been deleted but all responses remain)
Jesus christ how do you not get it.
Nobody here says Israel shouldn't exist.
Everyone is saying that murdering 40,000 people and blowing up everyone around you well well exceeds the above mandate.
You are not familiar with this individual. He, and another one that appeared casually once here too adter this terrorist attack riled up the main Israel thread saying the most deapicable things under the excuse of Israel has the right to defend themselves
How else do you kill Hamas soldiers and leadership? Genuine question.
Weird that you're posting about Palestine in the middle of a game.
If he would wear a kippah nothing should happen. If he wore a kippah saying "feck palestine" then it would be a problem
If she would wear a keffiyeh nothing should happen. If she wore a keffiyeh saying "feck israel" theb it would be a problem.
For some reason the OP equates a keffiyeh = kippah + " feck palestine" while kippah alone is neutral
I'm not sure if you've heard of these features of Google chrome called "tabs" or "windows", but try it! It's a blast! I love how you're trying to deflect by trying to insinuate our adherence as Man Utd fans
Also, you kill Hamas Soldiers and Leadership the same way that the Coalition did it in the Middle East. Incisive ground penetrations, creating pockets of resistance and then close those pockets with door to door urban combat.
You know, it's not like this template hasn't been tried and tested for...20 years in the GWOT.
The solution is clearly not to....bomb a city to rubble.
Ill bite
An idea: Create the conditions for a palestine state run and policed by the UN
Another idea: not propping Hamas like Netanyahu did to have a terrotost antagonist that give him the perfect excuse to attack palestine
Not a good idea: Not commiting genocide. Because....genocide? But also because Hamas will only get stronger if Israel doesnt wipe out the territory of palestinians
I am sure that there are plenty of intelligent people in Israel and the world that would be able to find a solution but they are abolutely not interested
The genuine question begins with the assumption that Israel is merely trying to kill Hamas soldiers and leadership and that unsavory results are collateral damage, an assumption many of us reject based on the available evidence.
Bit more difficult when your opposition is using their own population as human shield though, isn't it. When they have kilometres of tunnels. God forbid they should take any criticism for that. Or even admit it's a deliberate tactic by a death cult who have chosen to use their own population as a propaganda tool.
Lest you think I am just an Israel shill, I will add that I think Netanyahu is a criminal and a bad leader of a bad party. If someone put him on trial for the activities of Israel in annexing territory in the West Bank, I'd happily stand outside the court with a Kafiya and a copy of Socialist Worker chanting Free Palestine. But in Gaza it's not as simple as you say.
Yes thank you for conceding that Israel has no right to defend itself militarily because of its basic moral inferiority. That's the real point isn't it? Even a highly targeted operation like the Hezbollah pager is too much when you assume that as your starting point.
I am sure there are but the people using the word genocide as a propaganda talking point won't be among them. Reminder: the complete destruction of Israel is Hamas official policy. They're not interested in two states.
I keep bringing up Fallujah but again, in both battles there was a gigantic civilian presence in that battle, both of them.
The US was severely criticized because so many civilians died in the brutal door to door fighting. Do you know how many civilians died? Despite many of them being in the same houses and blocks as the fighting. Less than 2000.
Didn't you like the solution were there is a Palestinian state? Maybe because you are yearning for a river to the sea Israel state? why Israel should police another state? why not allowing Israel policing another country is considered defending themselves and moral inferiority? Is Serbia morally inferior because they can't police Kosovo that has the UN and NATO mission? or does UN and NATO keep peace?
You are conflating Hamas and Hezbollah? The question was about Hamas.
Is not propaganda when the ICJ says that there is grounds for genocide, don't you think? The complete destruction of Palestine is the unofficial policy from Israel since 75 years ago. There is no interest in 2 states OFFICIALLY from this year in the Israel parliament
Also, Hamas is not Palestine while Israel represents the whole Israel and who is killing innocents by the thousands is Israel
But there aren't 300 miles of tunnels under Fallujah. The local death cult hasn't had years to prepare for exactly the kind of ground war you're advocating. If Israel fought that war I think they would lose.
On the contrary I would have loved to have seen a peaceful two state solution. It's just not possible with Hamas on the scene. It's now just a pipe dream.
They said nothing of the kind. You should stop getting your facts from Twitter. They only said S Africa had the right to present that claim in court.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-68906919
I agree the Israelis are no longer interested in a two state solution. It's patently untrue that they were never interested. Remember all the territory Israel has gained since 1947 was the result of wars started or provoked by others. They unilaterally withdrew from Gaza and look what they got.
But Hamas is the government of Gaza.
Oh boy id really read up on fallujahs tunnel system if I were you.
Also the claim that Hamas would defeat the idf in urban combat is the most absurd thing I’ve heard in a while.
Yeah a bunch of guys with Aks, rpg 7s and some primitive rockets and grenades is going to beat an army with direct and indirect fire support, air support and specific urban combat equipment.
Plenty of opportunities before Hamas?
I don't have twitter. Well, then "risk of irreparable harm to the Palestinian right to be protected from genocide" . Pretty terrible doesn't it?
Also, ICJ mandated Israel to end its occupation, dismantle its settlements, provide full reparations to Palestinian victims and facilitate the return of displaced people.
What we do with that?
Everybody knows that the 2 state solution was an accepted first step for the jews to end conquering the whole territory since its inception. You can use google and find plenty of sentences. Israel was NEVER interested on it. Not because of Hamas. It had been their plan all along
Ben Gurion: " I see in the realisation of this plan practically the decisive stage in the beginning of full redemption and the most wonderful lever for the gradual conquest of all of Palestine."
Ben Gurion: "Partition: “after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine “
Ben Gurion: “It’s not a matter of maintaining the status quo. We have to create a dynamic state, oriented towards expansion.”
Ben Gurion: " not with regard to the regime, not with regard to borders, and not with regard to international agreements'"
Ben GurionL “If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”
Ben Gurion: " Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.”
So give me a break. Israel is the agressor from the starters with a plan to take the whole territory as soon as they would be strong enough with the perfect excuse
Elections from 2006
Also, Gaza is not Palestine. There is no Hamas in WB and that doesn't stop the illegal settlements, sniping kids in WB, kidnapping and torturing in west bank and overall killing and stealing land in the WB
Guessing there weren't 300 miles of them?
Hamas would inflict larger Israeli casualties in that scenario. In simple parlance it's a fight the IDF did not want to fight (self evidently) and they would find it more difficult to reach their objectives that way. It is very much the fight Hamas would like to fight though. Of course I agree the Israelis care less about collateral damage in Gaza than they do about killing Hamas soldiers at a minimum cost to themselves. That's undeniable. That's a common theme of modern warfare, your opinion of the US Army notwithstanding.
Well yes. 1947 being the best one. I completely get why they wouldn't want to of course, and the 1948 decision to go to war was made in Arab capitals, not by Palestinians, or even Ben Gurion. But is there an alternate reality where the whole region prospered after 1947 and nobody started any wars? I think there is.
First it was genocide then it was plausible risk of genocide. Now it's legal right to be protected from hypothetical genocide. If you backtrack any further you'll fall off the edge of the echo chamber.
What Israel is doing in the West Bank is both wrong and stupid. I won't defend it. I would point out that they did pull out of Gaza and dismantled its settlements there and they were thanked with this mess.
And there it is. The evil jewish plan revealed. Everybody knows it, right?
He may well have said those things. He was a wartime leader. Plenty of people say stupid things in war. I imagine Arafat said some pretty wild things too. And Naser. Yet today Israel is at peace with the PLO and with Egypt.
There is a Hamas presence in the West Bank. But again, I don't defend the Israeli actions in the West Bank. But neither do I blame Israel for wanting to avoid it becoming another Gaza. Doesn't really help if the IDF is levelling Nablus in the year 2040 because they followed the ICJ ruling to the letter.
I accept your correction and put you another sentence from your link. What is wrong? are you the only one allowed to ask questions? Is that sentence much better? or you prefer not to answer?
Glad that you don't defend it. Butthe same as had been done in the WB, had been done in Gaza. Now worse
Playing the hedgehog now?
WTF? revealed? of couse is revealed. Jews leaders, not only Ben Gurion but other leaders through out history is plane excuses FROM THE START. And yes, is evil and not everybody knows because no one cares. But is there from the plan design. Do you want something more recent? The current PM for FFS
And Hamas was voted in 2006, basically a big majority never voted them by 2006
The answer is yes, that sentence is much better. The court was saying that it was important to give South Africa a hearing because of the consequences if the accusation of genocide were true. It made no findings that it was true. The fact that so many people cite it as evidence to support their own accusation of genocide (as you did) suggests to me they are arguing in bad faith.
It's self evidently different. Gaza was not occupied. Israel pulled out in 2005. In 2006 they elected Hamas.
Netanyahu is a right wing politician. That group has been ascendent for a number of years now but to say it has always been the case is obviously untrue. Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated because he was so keen to find a two state solution. I think with your talk of "evil" "Jews" that you are really part of the problem both in this forum and more generally.
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You are the one saying evil jews first, and yes, is an evil plan. Being jew or arab or anyone. It happens to be a plan to have a jew state based on evilness, deceivery and lies. It was by design since its inception. Ben Gurion was PM since well entered the 60s and he was in charge since 30s, Prewar. He says it himself over and over. And not only him. Yitzhak Rabin was a short period where himself never recognized palestine as a state but as entity. All lies
Never putting its own borders, lying on the 2 state solutions and now the mask had fallen in the present day all connected on the initial plan designed from its inception
Ben Gurion doesn't count, Netanyahu doesn't count. 20-30 years of PM each during the last 75 years but they don't count. But hey Rabin counts and he doesn't even recognize palestine
And I am done. You are doing the same as the thread that you were banned from and hijacking the narrative once more. And I fell for it. Enjoy your response. I am out