Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Gandalf Greyhame said:
It's odd. All the movies tell me that the moment even a single American citizen is killed, you incur the wrath of the famous American war machine.

Trump's rise has distorted the political compass for the whole world. Biden/Harris would not and should not even come close to another term if there was anyone with a conscience against them either in the primaries or in the Republican camp. How can one expect enthusiasm when the least of two evils is still providing unconditional support for a genocidal regime that kills your even own citizens for sport and celebrates those 'kills'?
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Nah, it has nothing to do with the orange madman.

When it comes to Israel, no matter who dies, the US couldn't give a feck, especially when the victim has the wrong skin color.

The USS Liberty, Rachel Corrie, Shireen Abu Akleh, and now Aysenur Ezgi Eygi are a few examples of how the US has constantly turned a blind eye on Israel's war crimes for decades even when its own citizens got killed and never stopped funding it, no matter what.

Here's an interview with Ilan Pappé about the genesis and the might of the pro-Israel lobby (understand AIPAC) in the US, vastly helped by the American loonies on the Evangelical side.

 
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4bars said:
If that doesn't equate or even surpasses any religion extremism branches, I don't know what it is. Most moral army and a beacon of democracy in the middle east, my ass
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I think you're being a bit unfair. This is simply the 98,471th isolated incident that does not reflect anything about Israel.
 
Kaos said:
Well when you deprive them of that right and support, they do it themselves anyway and seek outside help from whoever is willing to siphon it, despite their own selfish reasons for doing so. How and why was Hamas created and consequently supported again?
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Absolutely, if the cnuts in iran want to send some weapons, that's a positive in my book. The genocide will go on, the world doesn't care, their only hope is to send as many israeli soldiers back home in body bags.
 
Idxomer said:
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This was very well known back in October last year and got some attention Israeli media in November before it got shut down by patriotic genocidal mania… but in the West it was always considered “antisemitic” to even discuss it. You were a holocaust denier if you’d if you dared ask any reasonable questions about how Hamas’ primitive RPGs could cause that much destruction or if you doubted any of the Apartheid regimes’s official propaganda.
 
Idxomer said:
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Nothing new.

Israel applied the Hannibal directive to its full extent and there's a bunch of reports that confirm it (Haaretz was the latest I think), which are of course completely ignored by the mainstream western media. Gotta keep the narrative simple for the simpletons.

There's plenty of Israeli witness accounts and footage of the damage in the targeted kibbutzim and wrecked cars which could never have been caused by the light weapons the Hamas militants were carrying that day. The IDF reacted without any care about its own civilians, the objective was to kill all the militants, and prevent any hostage to be taken by any means necessary.

Alongside its carefully cultivated racism and innate sense of superiority, the IDF has no RoE whatsoever, anything goes. It learned from the two absolute best in this discipline (hint: they waged war on the world in the 40s).
 
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"Turkish origin"

i.e not a true American.

Next time Kamala Haris win the presidential race BBC will write, Kamala, indian origin, president. Or Trump, german origin becomes the US president for the second time, succeeding J Biden, Irish origin.
 
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Giggsyking said:
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If The Telegraph's reporting it, then it's because it's been found not to be pro-Israeli enough.

Edit: A brief search reveals that the report is led by Trevor Asserson. Trevor Asserson also runs Asserson Law Offices which happens (only happens you understand) to be the largest international law firm in Israel.
 
VorZakone said:
Isn't the Telegraph framing it as an anti-Israel bias rather than pro-Israel?
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The Telegraph is a right-wing outlet with a hardcore pro-Israel editorial line, so anything not strictly sticking to their narrative is considered anti-Israel.

The BBC is just a spineless corporate media with no integrity whatsoever when it comes to honest reporting in the Middle-East, especially Palestine. It does sometimes have a moment of clarity though, when the pressure is too high.

In general, I'd recommend the Guardian as the only British mainstream media worth having a look at.
 
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Ekkie Thump said:
If The Telegraph's reporting it, then it's because it's been found not to be pro-Israeli enough.

Edit: A brief search reveals that the report is led by Trevor Asserson. Trevor Asserson also runs Asserson Law Offices which happens (only happens you understand) to be the largest international law firm in Israel.
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Yeah, I am sorry, I should have put some context to the post to clarify the headlines.
 
VorZakone said:
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"Israel has the right to defend itself" - its all those spineless enablers are able to say as the sole regional nuclear power currently lights the region on fire, carries out a genocide that murders thousands of children, all while boasting of how sick of a society they are by justifying prisoner rape, ethnic cleansing and ethno-fascist rhetoric. Truthfully, feck Israel, the US and anyone who plays the 'both sides' spiel.
 

Targeting childhood: Palestinian children killed by Israeli forces and settlers in the occupied West Bank​


Key findings

  1. 20 percent of the Palestinian children killed by Israeli forces and settlers in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, since 2000 have been killed after October 7, 2023 at a rate of one child every two days.​

  2. Israeli forces deliberately target and shoot unarmed children with live ammunition and trained snipers. Israeli forces and settlers shot and killed 116 Palestinian children in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, between October 7, 2023 and July 31, 2024.​

  3. Israeli forces have killed 25 Palestinian children in aerial attacks in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, between October 7, 2023 and July 31, 2024. Some children were directly targeted while others were collateral damage as Israeli forces deployed aerial attacks in densely populated civilian areas.​

  4. Israeli forces and authorities systematically deny Palestinian children their right to medical care when preventing ambulances, paramedics, or bystanders from providing medical care to a child shot with live ammunition or struck in an Israeli airstrike. In 43 percent of cases in this report, Israeli forces deliberately prevented injured Palestinian children from receiving medical care by detaining and firing live ammunition toward ambulances, paramedics, and civilians attempting to provide aid.​

  5. Israeli authorities and forces systematically, deliberately, and specifically embolden Israeli settler violence towards Palestinian children. Israeli forces present during armed Israeli settler attacks fail to prevent the aggression, fail to help the Palestinian victims, and often collaborate with the settlers in inflicting lethal harm. In two cases, Israeli forces and settlers fired toward Palestinian children simultaneously, and DCIP was unable to determine which perpetrator fired the fatal bullet.​

  6. Israeli forces killed at least 49 Palestinian children during the intensified large-scale and deadly incursions into Palestinian refugee camps in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, between October 7, 2023 and July 31, 2024.​

  7. The fatal shootings of child protesters in solidarity with Palestinians in Gaza and the use of expanding bullets during the crackdowns constitute war crimes prosecutable at the ICC. In October 2023, Israeli forces shot and killed four Palestinian children with expanding bullets designed to increase in size upon impact, inflicting fatal internal injuries.​

  8. Israeli authorities’ practice of confiscating and withholding Palestinian bodies is a violation of international humanitarian law and international criminal law, which include absolute prohibitions on cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment. Israeli authorities have confiscated 18 Palestinian children’s bodies in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, between October 7, 2023 and July 31, 2024.​

  9. Israeli authorities work to ensure Israeli forces continue enjoying impunity and face no consequence for the extrajudicial killing of Palestinian children. There are no known accounts of accountability during this reporting period.​

 
I’ve seen too many videos of
children’s bodies being pulled from rubble, or being covered in body bags to hide the wounds
, images that will haunt me until I die, for anyone to try to convince me that this is anything other than the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians in Ghaza and the West Bank.

The terrifying and agonising part is that it’s not even ideological, it’s purely for Netanyahu’s personal gain.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
I’ve seen too many videos of
children’s bodies being pulled from rubble, or being covered in body bags to hide the wounds
, images that will haunt me until I die, for anyone to try to convince me that this is anything other than the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians in Ghaza and the West Bank.

The terrifying and agonising part is that it’s not even ideological, it’s purely for Netanyahu’s personal gain.
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Listening to politicians and soldiers, it seems pretty ideological to me.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
I’ve seen too many videos of
children’s bodies being pulled from rubble, or being covered in body bags to hide the wounds
, images that will haunt me until I die, for anyone to try to convince me that this is anything other than the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians in Ghaza and the West Bank.

The terrifying and agonising part is that it’s not even ideological, it’s purely for Netanyahu’s personal gain.
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It's not.

Three quarters of the Isreali society are onboard with it.
 
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Saw this on Twitter and had no idea if true or not (given topic is so polarised and so much propaganda over the last year) but looking at posts and media outlets (that’ll talk about it), seems to be?

So they were happy to basically shoot everyone on the basis there was a good chance they’d kill some of the “enemy” and collateral damage was fine?

 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Saw this on Twitter and had no idea if true or not (given topic is so polarised and so much propaganda over the last year) but looking at posts and media outlets (that’ll talk about it), seems to be?

So they were happy to basically shoot everyone on the basis there was a good chance they’d kill some of the “enemy” and collateral damage was fine?

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Jericholyte2 said:
I’ve seen too many videos of
children’s bodies being pulled from rubble, or being covered in body bags to hide the wounds
, images that will haunt me until I die, for anyone to try to convince me that this is anything other than the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians in Ghaza and the West Bank.

The terrifying and agonising part is that it’s not even ideological, it’s purely for Netanyahu’s personal gain.
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to add to the other replies, about this being a personal vs societal war:





Israeli Jews, however, seem unperturbed by the scale of the suffering, if the polls are any indication. One of the questions in the Tel Aviv University poll deals with the amount of force the Israeli army is using in Gaza. Less than 2 percent of the respondents said they believed the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) was using too much firepower. Perhaps even more horrifyingly, nearly 58 percent said they were using too little firepower.
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BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Saw this on Twitter and had no idea if true or not (given topic is so polarised and so much propaganda over the last year) but looking at posts and media outlets (that’ll talk about it), seems to be?

So they were happy to basically shoot everyone on the basis there was a good chance they’d kill some of the “enemy” and collateral damage was fine?

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VorZakone said:
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there's an entire article on this by ABC australia with multiple sources. there have been multiple israeli articles on this. it's much more than a single video, that establishes that israel, extending its existing doctrine, killed israelis being taken as hostages, and those being held in their homes by gunmen on oct 7.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09...tive-kidnap-hamas-gaza-hostages-idf/104224430
 
berbatrick said:
there's an entire article on this by ABC australia with multiple sources. there have been multiple israeli articles on this. it's much more than a single video, that establishes that israel, extending its existing doctrine, killed israelis being taken as hostages, and those being held in their homes by gunmen on oct 7.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09...tive-kidnap-hamas-gaza-hostages-idf/104224430
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I don't dispute that. It's about whether that footage is from the festival.
 
That_Bloke said:
Nothing new.

Israel applied the Hannibal directive to its full extent and there's a bunch of reports that confirm it (Haaretz was the latest I think), which are of course completely ignored by the mainstream western media. Gotta keep the narrative simple for the simpletons.

There's plenty of Israeli witness accounts and footage of the damage in the targeted kibbutzim and wrecked cars which could never have been caused by the light weapons the Hamas militants were carrying that day. The IDF reacted without any care about its own civilians, the objective was to kill all the militants, and prevent any hostage to be taken by any means necessary.

Alongside its carefully cultivated racism and innate sense of superiority, the IDF has no RoE whatsoever, anything goes. It learned from the two absolute best in this discipline (hint: they waged war on the world in the 40s).
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Is there a number for roughly how many Israeli's the Israeli's killed?

It would surely be a fairly substantial amount of the 1200?
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
To be honest, the “festival” part wasn’t the bit I was really curious about… it was the shooting everyone bit.

Or is that false too?
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I think Haaretz reported it first and recently ABC Australia reported it as well. I wonder if the ABC article raised questions in Israel? Does no one in Israel give a shit?
 
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