Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

[Giggsy PO]

But it's Palestinian supporting students and staff that are facing censure and expulsion. Are you posting that history example to support them?

You know very well in whom support I posted those historical examples. But it is not what you are asking, is it?

If you say that current rise of antisemitism and harassment of Israeli/Jewish students/staff is basically on the par with Palestinian supporting students and staff facing negative consequences...we will never agree on that. I am not saying it is not happening at all but the extent is incomparable.

 

[Smores]

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It took me all of 30 seconds to find the actual IPC report and another 30 seconds to read the conclusions. None of those tweets are remotely true if you'd have bothered to read it.

Well done though, another bollocks post on the day of a major IDF war crime.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

You know very well in whom support I posted those historical examples. But it is not what you are asking, is it?

If you say that current rise of antisemitism and harassment of Israeli/Jewish students/staff is basically on the par with Palestinian supporting students and staff facing negative consequences...we will never agree on that. I am not saying it is not happening at all but the extent is incomparable.

I very clearly asked what I asked.

There is a clear parallelism in your example.
It's just not the one you intended.

 

[RedC]

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You are genuinely so far gone as a human to read something like that, believe it, and then most likely gleefully post it in here as some form of gotcha.

 

[Giggsy PO]

It took me all of 30 seconds to find the actual IPC report and another 30 seconds to read the conclusions. None of those tweets are remotely true if you'd have bothered to read it.

Well done though, another bollocks post on the day of a major IDF war crime.

You mean report that is actually linked in the tweet? Maybe you should read it more than for 30 seconds.

 

[Giggsy PO]

You are genuinely so far gone as a human to read something like that, believe it, and then most likely gleefully post it in here as some form of gotcha.

I am sorry to follow Israeli journalists. From now on I will only take my information from this thread.

 

[Giggsy PO]

I very clearly asked what I asked.

There is a clear parallelism in your example.
It's just not the one you intended.

I am glad you found what you were looking for.

 

[Smores]

You mean report that is actually linked in the tweet? Maybe you should read it more than for 30 seconds.

It's not difficult, go to their website find the report and read the classifications. Let's see if you can work it out. Then come back and apologise for posting conspiracy theory level nonsense.

 

[Giggsy PO]

It's not difficult, go to their website find the report and read the classifications. Let's see if you can work it out. Then come back and apologise for posting conspiracy theory level nonsense.

You go first. But first learn how to communicate politely.

 

[Raoul]

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Have you cross referenced what is in the tweet with what is in the actual report ?

 

[Giggsy PO]

Have you cross referenced what is in the tweet with what is in the actual report ?

It is already done in the tweet with the print screens of the actual report.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

I am glad you found what you were looking for.

I found what you said, whether you intended it or not.

History actually supports the opposite of the point you were trying to make.

 

[Smores]

You go first. But first learn how to communicate politely.

I don't need to go first I've read it, I know what their classifications are and what the report does and does not state. It's not on others to disprove conspiracies.

Here's a cliff note for you though as you seem forever unwilling to back up any nonsense you post, it explicitly states that the mortality threshold hasn't been passed. It explicitly states the difference between household and area phase 5 classifications, for phase 5 it splits out the criteria for 'solid evidence' and then 'reasonable' which is 2 out of 3 criteria of which extreme lack of food and malnutrition has been met.

So no your tweet doesn't disprove starvation, it misreads basic findings to try con others into believing the UN and NGOs are all anti-semitic institutions plotting against Israel.

 

[maniak]

Israel bombs UN school? No worries, here's giggsy po posting some nonsense to be discussed in the next 3 pages so another war crime becomes lost in the noise. Same strategy everywhere, forums, social media, newspaper comment sections. Infuriating that it seems to work.

 

[Raoul]

It is already done in the tweet with the print screens of the actual report.

I don't think most would disagree that some aid trucks have been getting in (clearly not enough), and what happens to the aid once its in the strip is also up for debate, but the report itself doesn't appear to mince any words about its own famine assessment.

From the IPC report:

First their criteria of what constitutes famine conditions, then their current and projected analysis of the Gaza strip. It looks like the entire strip is currently under famine conditions, as defined in graphic one, and illustrated in the pic below it.

This above is reinforced by Cindy McCain.

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[Giggsy PO]

Israel bombs UN school? No worries, here's giggsy po posting some nonsense to be discussed in the next 3 pages so another war crime becomes lost in the noise. Same strategy everywhere, forums, social media, newspaper comment sections. Infuriating that it seems to work.

Israel strikes a Hamas terrorist compound inside a UNRWA school.

 

[maniak]

Israel strikes a Hamas terrorist compound inside a UNRWA school.

I really hope you're being paid for this shit, at least it would make a little bit of sense.

 

[Giggsy PO]

I don't think most would disagree that some aid trucks have been getting in (clearly not enough), and what happens to the aid once its in the strip is also up for debate, but the report itself doesn't appear to mince words about its own famine assessment.

From the IPC report:

First their criteria of what constitutes famine conditions, then their current and projected analysis of the Gaza strip. It looks like the entire strip is currently under famine conditions, as defined in graphic one, and illustrated in the pic below it.

This above is reinforced by Cindy McCain.

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If the projections are right, half of the Gaza population should be in Category 5 Famine (not Catastrophe). See below:

Based on all data and information available through March 10, 2024, the IPC projected that the North Gaza and Gaza Governorates—representing half the population of Gaza—would be classified in IPC 5 (Famine) as early as March 16, 2024, unless hostilities immediately ceased and humanitarian access was fully restored. Intense conflict has persisted and access to essential supplies and services has remained restricted, and the populations of the North Gaza and Gaza Governorates have suffered from famine since this time.

Source: https://www.csis.org/analysis/famine-gaza

Nobody ever retracted those projections. So the point in the tweet is absolutely correct.

Even Haviv is not denying that situation in Gaza is dire:

Gazans are still suffering, the war is still terrible. This doesn’t fundamentally change that.

But it doesn't mean such issues should not be pointed out.

 

[Giggsy PO]

I really hope you're being paid for this shit, at least it would make a little bit of sense.

Yes, Eylon better be sending regular monthly check soon.

 

[maniak]

Yes, Eylon better be sending regular monthly check soon.

Average trolling. 5/10

 

[Giggsy PO]

Average trolling. 5/10

Will do better next time.

 

[Raoul]

If the projections are right, half of the Gaza population should be in Category 5 Famine (not Catastrophe). See below:

Source: https://www.csis.org/analysis/famine-gaza

Nobody ever retracted those projections. So the point in the tweet is absolutely correct.

Even Haviv is not denying that situation in Gaza is dire:



But it doesn't mean such issues should not be pointed out.

Do you concede based on the information the IPC posted above, that Gaza is currently in famine conditions ranging anywhere from phases 3 to 5 of the IPC's own criteria ?

 

[Smores]

If the projections are right, half of the Gaza population should be in Category 5 Famine (not Catastrophe). See below:

Source: https://www.csis.org/analysis/famine-gaza

Nobody ever retracted those projections. So the point in the tweet is absolutely correct.

Even Haviv is not denying that situation in Gaza is dire:



But it doesn't mean such issues should not be pointed out.

Your tweet made an argument that the UN and the NGOs are lying which is not correct is it?

The reasoning behind the lie was apparently that if it was true there would be thousands of people starved to death ergo no famine. That argument is false because the IPC definition under reasonable evidence (as you'll see highlighted in Raouls map graphic) does not require that to be the case.

 

[Giggsy PO]

Your tweet made an argument that the UN and the NGOs are lying which is not correct is it?

The reasoning behind the lie was apparently that if it was true there would be thousands of people starved to death ergo no famine. That argument is false because the IPC definition under reasonable evidence (as you'll see highlighted in Raouls map graphic) does not require that to be the case.

The definition under reasonable evidence says that the third threshold has likely been reached. It is statistically impossible that "likely been reached" which should be in thousands is close to the statistical deviation. Therefore the report is clearly seriously flawed. As analyzed here (not that you will read it).

 

[Idxomer]

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[Idxomer]

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Does the US supply weapons to states that give them to Hamas?

 

[Raoul]

The definition under reasonable evidence says that the third threshold has likely been reached. It is statistically impossible that "likely been reached" which should be in thousands is close to the statistical deviation. Therefore the report is clearly seriously flawed. As analyzed here (not that you will read it).

The Times of Israel piece seems to question the methodology and transparency of the IPC's data. Oddly enough, the Federal Early Warning System Network (FEWS) report appears to corroborate what is in the IPC report. FEWS is a US funded organization that is independent of the IPC and some of the UN related bodies. It concludes that Gaza is under some degree of IPC level 3-5 of famine.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/a...s-death-and-lasting-harm-in-gaza-agencies-say

https://fews.net/sites/default/files/2024-06/Gaza-Targeted-Analysis-Update-042024-Final_3.pdf

 

[Giggsyking]

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[Giggsyking]

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[Giggsy PO]

Do you concede based on the information the IPC posted above, that Gaza is currently in famine conditions ranging anywhere from phases 3 to 5 of the IPC's own criteria ?

The Times of Israel piece seems to question the methodology and transparency of the IPC's data. Oddly enough, the Federal Early Warning System Network (FEWS) report appears to corroborate what is in the IPC report. FEWS is a US funded organization that is independent of the IPC and some of the UN related bodies. It concludes that Gaza is under some degree of IPC level 3-5 of famine.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/a...s-death-and-lasting-harm-in-gaza-agencies-say

https://fews.net/sites/default/files/2024-06/Gaza-Targeted-Analysis-Update-042024-Final_3.pdf

That is undeniable and I have never disputed that some degree of famine is going on. For sure for people on the ground some definition issues doesnt really matter. But in the Context that this report is used as evidence for ICJ or ICC it is not good enough that it Might be somewhere between 3-5. And methodology issues (like changed variables - e.g ignoring new situation on the ground in the projections) needs to be taken into consideration as well.

 

[Giggsyking]

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Who is this British Person? Hope it's Eylon Levy.

 

[maniak]

I have never disputed that some degree of famine is going on.

You literally posted a tweet saying "starvation in gaza is a lie" and using the word famine in quotation marks.

 

[Giggsy PO]

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Says Gaza authorities (Hamas) which is the same entity that uses the civilian infrastructure for military purposes and thus make it legitimate target under international law. Address your concerns there.

 

[Smores]

The definition under reasonable evidence says that the third threshold has likely been reached. It is statistically impossible that "likely been reached" which should be in thousands is close to the statistical deviation. Therefore the report is clearly seriously flawed. As analyzed here (not that you will read it).

Care to provide a source for that as it's not in the report nor would it make sense. The exact opposite is stated as it calls out that it is likely the malnutrition has not at this time resulted in the crude death rate required.

They projected it likely to be imminent based on some stated assumptions, if you want to argue that hasn't come to pass fine but we don't know in truth.

What you're failing to accept is you've posted a tweet denying famine. A tweet that used something the IPC hadn't even stated or confirmed, that even If true wouldn't disprove the actual classification of famine anyway just shift it from solid to reasonable (again as the IPC classed it).

I know you didn't put much thought or consideration into sharing it here, it was an attempt to point score, but at least have the dignity to recognise your mistake.

 

[maniak]

Says Gaza authorities (Hamas) which is the same entity that uses the civilian infrastructure for military purposes and thus make it legitimate target under international law. Address your concerns there.

Care to provide evidence hamas is running operations from UN schools?

Of course not, why am I asking...

 

[Giggsy PO]

Care to provide a source for that as it's not in the report nor would it make sense. The exact opposite is stated as it calls out that it is likely the malnutrition has not at this time resulted in the crude death rate required.

They projected it likely to be imminent based on some stated assumptions, if you want to argue that hasn't come to pass fine but we don't know in truth.

What you're failing to accept is you've posted a tweet denying famine. A tweet that used something the IPC hadn't even stated or confirmed, that even If true wouldn't disprove the actual classification of famine anyway just shift it from solid to reasonable (again as the IPC classed it).

I know you didn't put much thought or consideration into sharing it here, it was an attempt to point score, but at least have the dignity to recognise your mistake.

Page 2 of the report Snapshot.

 

[Idxomer]

Spoiler

 

[JPRouve]

am I missing something or the Israeli review doesn't actually provide any subtantial rebuttal, it's a serie of big assumptions. The rebuttal is basically claiming that the surveys are unreliable and unrepresentative but also that there has been an increase in aid supply and Israeli forces withdrew from certain areas, as if either of these things actually means that people received aids or that those aids were enough to prevent a famine.

 

[Smores]

Oh I give up, I know no one else here buys his nonsense anyway so not sure why I'm bothering to reason with him. It's just helping his aim to noise the thread.

Denying an internationally recognised ongoing famine must be pretty close to non compliance with the site rules, hopefully he eventually crosses the line.

 

[maniak]

Oh I give up, I know no one else here buys his nonsense anyway so not sure why I'm bothering to reason with him. It's just helping his aim to noise the thread.

Denying an internationally recognised ongoing famine must be pretty close to non compliance with the site rules, hopefully he eventually crosses the line.

I remember people being thread banned in the ukraine thread for far less.