Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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That the question itself is basically wrong. He argues that not every territory can have its indigenous population. America can. Australia can. But Israel can't because it is basically a crossroad between Africa, Asia and Europe. He also mentions some basic facts like why are Jews called Jews, and Arabs called Arabs etc. Plus he spent some time on religious aspects of Jerusalem/Temple Mount question (e.g. the meaning of the furthest mosque).
Most of today's news concerning Hezbollah indicates again a strong desire from Israel to go to war with them.
We know it's not a sane government, and someone like Lapid is also war-mongering today.
You waited about 20 minutes before this reply. People live in different time zones and have lives. Work, kids, commitments etc.
Also, to be fair, you're a fine one to talk about not replying tagged as you are frequently tagged and asked to reply and don't.
It could be posturing. We've been hearing the same things for months now.
Having said that, it might be Netanyahu's next trick: If a deal with Hamas happens, he'll extend the war he needs to maintain his government by taking it to Lebanon.
Absolutely heart wrenching
I can’t count how many times I’ve seen a post on Instagram, or news article and been in tears.
This story is about an actual baby beheaded by the actions of Israel and no mainstream news coverage, whereas when Israel made up stories of babies being beheaded on October 7th, the western media ran with it.
Good to see Sky News running a story on their website about a teenage girl who had to have her leg amputated without anaesthetic on her kitchen table using a kitchen knife by her medic uncle.
These are the stories that will haunt us forever.
no matter what the Zionists say about who should have that land and what should be at Al Aqsa/Temple Mount, what we do know for sure is that the actions of the Zionists mean they don’t deserve anything but contempt from the rest of the world and the cosmos.
Imagine you can not collect your rain water on your own occupied land because the rain is the property of the occupier, and then a donkey comes and tell you "it is not apartheid".
Yeah this is one of the craziest things I’ve read about, and a great example of the cruelty and stupidity of the Zionists.
Israel does not care about the hostages.
If they did they would not have shot three carrying a white flag.
They also wouldn’t have been so reluctant to take the elderly ladies that Hamas offered to release, because they know that the hostages allow them to carry out their genocidal war against the Palestinians.
Israel have been beheading babies. That is a fact. And we have seen the tapes.
President Biden and the rest lied about Hamas beheading babies.
President Biden and the rest lied about Hamas beheading babies.
I find this video pointless.
It's starts off by saying, "Well the Homo-Genus precursor humans that were there 1.5 million years ago were neither Palestinian nor Jewish."
Well....yeah.
This figure is practically impossible to reach, I've seen estimates that are more along the lines of the 10k mark, which seems more reasonable. Which is still absurdly high.
If you use the 70k tonnes figure, if you took every operational plane IAF has (+-200), and they used the largest bomb (2000lb Mk84/Paveway Series), the operational tempo per plane needs to average out to 350 sorties. Which, over a 7 month period is practically impossible to achieve. Given F-15 and F16 readiness rates are pretty well known, this sortie rate is impossible.
Anyway, only post i'm making on this subject lest I be accused of diversion again, but these military technical topics are of great interest to me
Maybe one day they can stop teaching their children violence and hate. I'm not holding my breath though as we've been waiting for nearly a century.
Let's not go overboard here. That was a tragic incident that was probably the result of a trigger happy soldier or soldiers, but it did not indicate a lack of will to release hostages.
It's the government that's the problem.
No shit Sherlock. I watched the start and thought the same. Without attacking the poster himself, @Giggsy PO seems to be continually grasping at straws posting anything he can that he feels backs up his views and yet when the source or content is challenged or picked apart he won't reply. It's the same as when he's tagged he often never replies. He then disappears for a while comes back and does the same again. Rinse and repeat. The same as he and the other one in here only ever post pro Israeli stuff from biased sources and refuse to acknowledge anything put to them to the contrary. I get others have different views, but I can't respect them if they cannot ever truly back them up. I would respect them more if they were just honest, but continually trying to justify the indefensible or make weak arguments that have little relevance, especially at this point in time after everything that has and is continuing to happen, is just pathetic.
I get others have different views, but I can't respect them if they cannot ever truly back them up. I would respect them more if they were just honest, but continually trying to justify the indefensible or make weak arguments that have little relevance, especially at this point in time after everything that has and is continuing to happen, is just pathetic.
Yeah, the video is very intellectually dishonest:
It spends more time going into technical details going into the expansive history of human genenology that is wholly irrelevant to the current world.
You could apply that logic to every nation. "Well, Britain isn't native to the Anglo-Saxons and Ukraine isn't native to Slavic peoples, back in 500,000 BC the Neanderthals had very little genetic connection to the current peoples!"
Exactly. You can't use any of that as an equation or comparison to today. Like I said, clutching at straws. Trying to use anything they can find to justify what's going on today and it's tiring.
I also find it incredibly insulting and disrespectful to call out other posters for not replying after twenty whole minutes when the poster himself continually ignores questions put to himself after replies to his own posts. It just feels sly and an almost cowardly way to try to gotcha others to make himself feel better for his own position on the issues, rather than to actually have honest discourse about current events in the region.
Have your opinion by all means but be able to defend it honestly. If it's a shit reason like 'Well I'm Jewish and I hate the Palestinians and Hamas and just want them all wiped out' or 'Jews are more entitled to this land and peace can never be achieved so this is the only answer,' then fine. We can disagree, vehemently but at least it's fecking honest. All this false justification while ignoring the real issues that Israel is fecking lying to the world, commiting war crimes and crimes against humanity such as genocide, ignoring international laws, mugging everyone off including those that fund and back then religiously, it's just dishonest and a needless derailment of the thread.
We need opposing views, I've always said that, and I understand why anyone who is supportive of Israel won't post here, but at least those that don't post understand why. Israel's actions became indefensible a long time ago, it's pointless even trying to justify their bullshit anymore.
Irrelevant to the current world? So you say the claims to Jerusalem are just some minor details which doesnt really matter? I beg to differ. It is exactly what matters. Where is he wrong? Tell me. Where is he dishonest? Just read this thread…arguments Oren tackles are used here regularly…Jews are just white settlers. They stole the land from native Palestinians. Disprove actual points, dont mock it with cheap shots that we are all ancestors from Lucy. Because we are.
Claims to Jersualem are very relevant....just don't fecking use genology from 1.5 million BC as an argument
Israel Secretly Targets U.S. Lawmakers With Influence Campaign on Gaza War
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/05/technology/israel-campaign-gaza-social-media.html
Claims to Jersualem are very relevant....just don't fecking use genology from 1.5 million BC as an argument
Nobody did, but ok.Claims to Jersualem are very relevant....just don't fecking use genology from 1.5 million BC as an argument
And in the second sentence he explained why it is completely irrelevant.You linked a video, where it's the first point the guy makes
Let us all remember Biden's pier and also remember Starmer, Lammy, Thornberry saying Israel has a right to withold food and water from starving people.
But then he goes on to say the Jews have the most rights to the land and then spends time saying how Palestinians don't have any rights to the land.
The point you seem to be missing is that he arguing semantics and also using centuries, even millenia old arguments and examples to defend the Jewish rights to the region. He then uses examples how Arabs turn their backs to Jerusalem to pray to Mecca and how their religion isn't tied to Jerusalem aside from the Muslims only wanting to claim it as it's competition to another religion.
Again, he's using religion and age old arguments that have no relevance to the issues today and again that's the point you seem to be missing. The argument he is using and you are promoting to defend what is happening today could be used by Native Americans to reclaim the USA or Mexico to reclaim California. Or countless other examples.
We could, and many here have debated and argued the history of the region and although it is complex and in my opinion, like most world history, fascinating, it doesn't relate to now, and it especially cannot be used now to defend the events since Israel was created.
As I said before, you using this type of evidence is just derailing the threads and absolutely avoiding the issues and problems of the last 76 years.
It is disingenuous distraction you are using and just ensures you can post here trying to gotcha others, yet you continually continue to ignore when you are tagged in response to posts with stories that you earlier ridiculed as fake news or Hamas lies and propaganda. Posts that contain stories that get proved to be true and that show the lies and propaganda or crimes and horrors committed by the IDF and Netanyahu. There are countless examples of this, especially in the first 4-5 months of this genocidal assault on Gaza and the West Bamk after the horrific and indefensible attacks on October 7th.
It's really obvious to many in here that you and the other guy who usually pops up around the same time as you, have carefully picked and chosen times to reply and things to attack. It's also true that especially in the first few months fake news was posted about Israel and the IDF. The trouble is, the absolute vast majority of it isn't and wasn't fake news. Whereas.the majority of fake news posted was actually by them or by their supporters.
In the last couple of months especially when the evidence against the IDF and Israel and Netanyahu and many Israeli citizens who are attacking the West Bank or blocking food aid, has become undeniable. The stories promoted.proved to be false or outright lies, the accusations of atrocities carried out proven to be credible.and true and the evidence of clear attacks against journalists, hospitals and civilians in refugee camps undeniable. Since then, you have both stopped posting anywhere near as frequently and stopped claiming stories of atrocities are fake. So now you turn to this bullshit of posting irrelevant videos that again are arguing semantics or history that few deny, in support of Israel and Israelis but that absolutely ignore what's going or the reason why.
It's just boring, pathetic and a disingenuous distraction.
Nothing you post ever mentions how the Palestinians have been treated since Israel was given after WWII. Nothing ever covers the land grabs, the tortures, murders, imprisonment, starvation, water and energy controls and restrictions, curfews, apartheid living conditions and general suffering and forceful continued stripping of Palestinians rights, land and will.
But yeah, post about how the Jews have more rights to the land and how the Muslims don't.
Like that bullshit is anyway a justification for the human rights violations and war crimes over the last 76 years or the fecking barbaric assault on refugee camps, the starvation of millions, the destruction of entire regions, towns and cities, the mass ethnic cleansing and genocide going on right now. Or the backing from the West especially the USA and UK or the pathetic international response or the fact Ireland have stood up with other countries to say enough is enough or the Maldives or Venezuela etc etc....
No just keep calling posters out for not replying in time to some bullshit that has absolutely no relevance to anything anyone else is discussing in this thread.
On point @langster. Great post.
Mate, what
I don't think you meant to tag me, right?
I've been waiting weeks for a response from @Giggsy PO
I get others have different views, but I can't respect them if they cannot ever truly back them up. I would respect them more if they were just honest, but continually trying to justify the indefensible or make weak arguments that have little relevance, especially at this point in time after everything that has and is continuing to happen, is just pathetic.
I am still wating for him to show me the 4 stories command center under Al- Shifa hospital that he promised to unravel.
Man, you like to talk about me a lot. I do not remember calling posters out for not replying in time. Don’t you confuse me with somebody else?
The rest of your word salad I don’t see any argument, just repeated and rinsed positions and naratives (which you see as facts). You are more informed than former ICJ chief justice. She is probably also disengenous. You have better info than Haviv Gur. You are the moral pinnacle of the issue. But you won on word count. That is for sure.
overboard? Your post exemplifies the dire situation within the IDF and Israeli society as a whole.
Trigger happy soldiers shooting people with white flags. We have seen them do this multiple times to Palestinians holding white flags too.
Which type of ‘most moral army in the world’ does something like that?
Not wanting to take back the elderly ladies that Hamas offered to release. Why?
I think it’s clear that the hostages are not the priority of the Israeli government. Their main objective is to destroy Hamas and inflict as much death and destruction on Palestinian civilians and infrastructure as possible in the process.
I'm not disagreeing with any of this. Only with the claim that shooting the three hostags is an indication to not caring about the hostages.
If the soldiers thought they were hostages, they wouldn't have shot. Soldiers have been risking their lives trying to rescue hostages and some gave their lives to retrieve bodies.
The government is vile, parts of the Israeli society is blood thirsty and some soldiers are trigger happy - but that is what that incident indicated, not the lack of caring towards the hostages.
I agree with what you say about Israeli society and the government.
However, when you say the soldiers wouldn’t have shot those three men if they had known they were hostages, can we infer that they shot them because they thought they were Palestinians? What kind of heroes who have been ‘risking their lives’, shoot people carrying white flags?
Please don’t try to paint the IDF as heroic because they are not. They are blood thirsty genocidal maniacs who have carried out war crimes and crimes against humanity for decades, not just since October 7th.
Not a single mention of this anywhere ….but you’ve “seen the tapes” ?
Yeah, there were photos/videos doing the rounds after the missile strike on the civilian camp in Rafah. I think it was from the blast of the strike, and not actual physical decapitation iirc, (not that it makes it any better). But I could be wrong.
Horrific story ….so why no mention anywhere?