Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Giggsyking said:
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It really does seem like mainstream media in most of the west is completely behind Israel whatever it does. Whether its contempt for "non-Westerners", politics or fear of being called anti-semites, they've been shamefully biased.
 
Do you people in the west still think you guys are the paragon of freedom and democracy? Never has and never will. Only if its convenience

The PKI Massacre in Indonesia don't cause a single blot in the western world, probably Soeharto bribed them with Freeport. One of the biggest gold mine in the world to shush them up, that and helping reducing the Sovyet influence.

The Youtube, Cnn etc are filled with censorship and even taking direct propaganda directions.
Tyrion said:
It really does seem like mainstream media in most of the west is completely behind Israel whatever it does. Whether its contempt for "non-Westerners", politics or fear of being called anti-semites, they've been shamefully biased.
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I’m glad the west/world leaders have shown themselves up for what they are - hypocrites that only act in their own self interests and not to defend justice. Not that it was needed because most of us would have known that to be the case anyway.
 
I have realised one thing during all that has happened in Gaza. When ou are advocating the good thing,
Tyrion said:
It really does seem like mainstream media in most of the west is completely behind Israel whatever it does. Whether its contempt for "non-Westerners", politics or fear of being called anti-semites, they've been shamefully biased.
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This is not the first time nor will it be the last. It's always been like that.
 
Tyrion said:
It really does seem like mainstream media in most of the west is completely behind Israel whatever it does. Whether its contempt for "non-Westerners", politics or fear of being called anti-semites, they've been shamefully biased.
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aNtI sEmitiC
 
Off to the protest today. I just can't sit around and do nothing - not that I or anyone here can directly affect anything but at least to stand in solidarity with the people of Palestine and let the powers that be know we are all not going to be complicit in these terrible crimes against the Palestinian civilians.

I'm still in shock that the world is just letting Israel get away with this. WHY???????? It's not anti-semitic to want people to be safe!
I've been distressed this whole time this is happening.

I am praying by some miracle there is no interference and the ICJ will rule on interim measures that will get Gaza the aid that it desperately needs.
 
Sky1981 said:
Do you people in the west still think you guys are the paragon of freedom and democracy? Never has and never will. Only if its convenience

The PKI Massacre in Indonesia don't cause a single blot in the western world, probably Soeharto bribed them with Freeport. One of the biggest gold mine in the world to shush them up, that and helping reducing the Sovyet influence.

The Youtube, Cnn etc are filled with censorship and even taking direct propaganda directions.
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Not a paragon but tbh, I do trust the major Western countries (who I don't live in) more than China or Russia to do the right thing, if only because their democracies can force them to.
 
Sky1981 said:
Do you people in the west still think you guys are the paragon of freedom and democracy? Never has and never will. Only if its convenience

The PKI Massacre in Indonesia don't cause a single blot in the western world, probably Soeharto bribed them with Freeport. One of the biggest gold mine in the world to shush them up, that and helping reducing the Sovyet influence.

The Youtube, Cnn etc are filled with censorship and even taking direct propaganda directions.
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Are there more democratic and free countries than those that are labelled as the western world? Please name your top 10

In the totalitarian parts of the world you have to use vpn to even acess those sites.
 
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Gehrman said:
Are there more democratic and free countries than those that are labelled as the western world? Please name your top 10

In the totalitarian parts of the world you have to use vpn to even acess those sites.
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So what is the BBC afraid of by sending live only day 2 of the genocide trail? what is their intentions? Elaborate?
 
Giggsyking said:
So what is the BBC afraid of by sending live only day 2 of the genocide trail? what is their intentions? Elaborate?
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Im not familiar with that. Honestly.

Im half british by ethnicity but i wasnt born there or raised there or live there.
 
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I don’t know why I only just came across this stat, but +10 children losing a limb a day in Gaza. Then you consider what kind of medical treatment and anesthetics are available to them. Absolutely heartbreaking and depressing.

I’m so embarrassed by the collective leadership of the EU and US. feck me.
 
There are no winners in this, or any other conflict. I have seen people, especially American students, asked what they want Palestine freeing from and the answers varied from Israel to the US, if they answered at all. Most didn't know that many Arabs and Christians actually live in Israel. Palestine needs freeing from Hamas and Iranian governance. It's the Iranians that started all of this in their persuit of destroying Israel. They daren't do it by a direct attack, so they have used stealth tactics, a little like the Chinese are all over the globe, but not as clever. Nagging away for year upon year until they hit Israel on October the 7th. They knew that the Israelies would go in hard into Gaza. They also knew that civilians will be killed and injured but they don't give a monkey's and neither do the IDF as long as they can erradicate Hamas. No army could comply to International Law in such a conflict with an enemy encased within the civilian population. I'm not sure what International Law means and what are the consequences. Putin doesn't seem to either.
 
Mike Smalling said:
I don’t know why I only just came across this stat, but +10 children losing a limb a day in Gaza. Then you consider what kind of medical treatment and anesthetics are available to them. Absolutely heartbreaking and depressing.

I’m so embarrassed by the collective leadership of the EU and US. feck me.
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It happens without anesthetics almost all of the time.
 
Fecking hell, just seen a baby, a literal baby in rubble. Screaming and crying and people try to dig them out.

feck Israel and the IDF.
 
Offsideagain said:
There are no winners in this, or any other conflict. I have seen people, especially American students, asked what they want Palestine freeing from and the answers varied from Israel to the US, if they answered at all. Most didn't know that many Arabs and Christians actually live in Israel. Palestine needs freeing from Hamas and Iranian governance. It's the Iranians that started all of this in their persuit of destroying Israel. They daren't do it by a direct attack, so they have used stealth tactics, a little like the Chinese are all over the globe, but not as clever. Nagging away for year upon year until they hit Israel on October the 7th. They knew that the Israelies would go in hard into Gaza. They also knew that civilians will be killed and injured but they don't give a monkey's and neither do the IDF as long as they can erradicate Hamas. No army could comply to International Law in such a conflict with an enemy encased within the civilian population. I'm not sure what International Law means and what are the consequences. Putin doesn't seem to either.
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You're either incredibly unaware of the nature and origins of the conflict and its current consequences or just taking the piss.

Either way, username checks out.
 
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Offsideagain said:
There are no winners in this, or any other conflict. I have seen people, especially American students, asked what they want Palestine freeing from and the answers varied from Israel to the US, if they answered at all. Most didn't know that many Arabs and Christians actually live in Israel. Palestine needs freeing from Hamas and Iranian governance. It's the Iranians that started all of this in their persuit of destroying Israel. They daren't do it by a direct attack, so they have used stealth tactics, a little like the Chinese are all over the globe, but not as clever. Nagging away for year upon year until they hit Israel on October the 7th. They knew that the Israelies would go in hard into Gaza. They also knew that civilians will be killed and injured but they don't give a monkey's and neither do the IDF as long as they can erradicate Hamas. No army could comply to International Law in such a conflict with an enemy encased within the civilian population. I'm not sure what International Law means and what are the consequences. Putin doesn't seem to either.
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You do know Israel has been occupying lands illegally for the past 50 years? 12 years before Iran became an Islamic republic. 21 years before the formation of Hamas. Israel will always find a reason to continue occupy land that does not belong to them.

Another thing. There is an ongoing legal discussion whether Israel does have the right to defend itself or not as it is an occupying force. In addition to that, as an occupier, Israel has the responsibility to ensure the safety of the people in occupied land, ie Palestinians. People do not know that, but Gaza according to the international community still recognised as occupied land.
 
Giggsyking said:
You do know Israel has been occupying lands illegally for the past 50 years? 12 years before Iran became an Islamic republic. 21 years before the formation of Hamas. Israel will always find a reason to continue occupy land that does not belong to them.

Another thing. There is an ongoing legal discussion whether Israel does have the right to defend itself or not as it is an occupying force. In addition to that, as an occupier, Israel has the responsibility to ensure the safety of the people in occupied land, ie Palestinians. People do not know that, but Gaza according to the international community still recognised as occupied land.
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He knows all of that for sure, you'd have to be willingly living under a rock not to know these things by now.
 
Bosnian_fan said:
He knows all of that for sure, you'd have to be willingly living under a rock not to know these things by now.
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I am not sure, I was in a discussion with a (highly intellectual) co-worker, I was surprised about the level of ignorance in the public about this conflict.
 
Bosnian_fan said:
He knows all of that for sure, you'd have to be willingly living under a rock not to know these things by now.
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Given the decades long western media black-out, Pravda style, when it comes to anything Israel does that doesn't suit the West's agenda, there's a feckton of people in western countries who genuinely don't have a clue about the Israel-Palestine conflict. I was as incredulous as you are, and thought that people were just willfully ignorant, but it turns out that propaganda is actually a thing in democratic countries and has been for a very long time. You don't even need to lie, just don't report the whole story and in most of the cases, that's enough to sway the public opinion.

I've followed the mainstream German media coverage since 10/7 and it's been absolutely incredible. Palestinians are, in the overwhelming majority of the reports, numbers and rubble. You'll never read anything questioning, let alone criticize Israel or the IDF. There's no debate, nothing is even remotely called into question. The (allowed) comment from your average Hans makes you want to vomit and will ruin the day of anyone with a shred of empathy or more than two brain cells. If you thought that CNN or the BBC were bad, and they are, read Die Welt or the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.

That's why I laugh my ass off whenever I read the western newspapers reports and critics about the "disinformation" coming from the countries they don't particularly like. Not that these are automatically untrue, but the effort the West puts to portray themselves as paragons of virtue and truth bearers is absolutely hilarious.
 
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Dirty Schwein said:
It's funny how Piers Morgan kept asking his pro Palestine guests where the "Nelson Mandela" figure is in all of this war (obviously the white-washed version of him), and here we have Nelson Mandela's grandsons in an international trial where they oppose the atrocities that are happening right now.
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So Mandela's grandsons inherited his moral authority as well as his name, is that that you are saying? What a bizarre argument
 
That_Bloke said:
That's all but guaranteed.

Given the decades long western media black-out, Pravda style, when it comes to anything Israel does that doesn't suit the freedom merchants' agenda, there's a feckton of people in western countries who genuinely don't have a clue about the Israel-Palestine conflict. I was as incredulous as you are, and thought that people were just willfully ignorant, but it turns out that propaganda is actually a thing in democratic countries and has been for a very long time. You don't even need to lie, just don't report the whole story and in most of the cases, that's enough to sway the public opinion.

I've followed the mainstream German media coverage since 10/7 and it's been absolutely incredible. Palestinians are, in the overwhelming majority of the reports, numbers and rubble. You'll never read anything remotely questioning, let alone criticizing Israel or the IDF. There's no debate, nothing is even remotely called into question. The (allowed) comments from the average Hans make you want to vomit and will ruin the day of anyone with a shred of empathy or more than two brain cells. If you thought that CNN or the BBC were bad, and they are, you've seen nothing.

That's why I laugh my ass off whenever I read the western newspapers reports and critics about the "disinformation" coming from the countries they don't particularly like. Not that these are automatically untrue, but the effort the West puts to portray themselves as paragons of virtue and truth bearers is absolutely hilarious.
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That's right the reason the average westerner does not share your enthusiasm for the middle east is because of "black outs" and "propaganda" designed to make themselves feel virtuous.. and not because (a) the middle east has being going to shit since our grandparents were young and people have tuned out and (b) because most people have other things to worry about. Sorry, but it doesn't take propaganda to explain the average persons pack of engagement.
 
https://www.oct7factcheck.com

I came across this site on Twitter, seems more substantial than the BBC.

There are quite a few more things mentioned here that the media are just continuing with as if it's true when evidently it's not.

The site checks some of the prominent claims such as the 'beheaded babies' and breaks them down. All sources are cited too so you can see the evidence for yourself.
 
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nickm said:
That's right the reason the average westerner does not share your enthusiasm for the middle east is because of "black outs" and "propaganda" designed to make themselves feel virtuous.. and not because (a) the middle east has being going to shit since our grandparents were young and people have tuned out and (b) because most people have other things to worry about. Sorry, but it doesn't take propaganda to explain the average persons pack of engagement.
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So, going by your logic, are you suggesting that a) There is no pro-Israeli propaganda in the west, and b) If there isn't, why are media constantly omitting facts, thereby painting conflict in different light than it actually is in?

And c) If you admit there is propaganda, then who do you think is targeted by it, and what is its end goal? Propaganda for the sake of itself?
 
JPRouve said:
Is it shame or political and financial interest? Supporting Israel is a good way to get on the good side of the US.
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It has its origins as a genuine grassroots thing. The founder and head of the West German spy agency was a Nazi, there were multiple Nazi ministers, industrialists, judges and police at all levels, etc.
It was the generation that grew up in the 60s which (admirably) changed the status quo with violent and nonviolent action. The ... weirdness of German support for Israel, I think, comes from that same genuine popular sentiment.

There is an episode about the Red Army Faction terror group which touches on the events of the 60s, heard it years ago, don't remember if it's any good otherwise:
https://www.leftbusinessobserver.com/Radio.html#S180816
(Aug 16 2018 Christina Gerhardt)

...

Anyway, they're distinguishing themselves today again:

 
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