Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Frosty said:
IDF spokesperson confirms Israel carried out strike on Jabalia refugee camp

Israel Defense Forces (IDF) spokesperson Daniel Hagari is giving a televised news conference, where he said the Israeli military “managed to eliminate the terrorist murderer Ibrahim Biari” on Tuesday.

Biari was “the main leader of combat” since Israel forces entered northern Gaza, Hagari said. During his “elimination, many terrorists were killed,” he said.

He said the targeting of the building where Biari was in also “led to the collapse of other things because there was a very extensive infrastructure there”.
Click to expand...

these terrorists “eliminated” 500+ Palestinians. This is ethnic cleansing while the whole world is watching.

I can not believe what is happening. I can not believe the silence. The videos and imagines are heart breaking.
 
Amir said:
I understand what you are saying and while things were hardly optimal before October 7, it was Hamas's actions that caused the Israeli retaliation. Realistically, do you think other countries would have responded differently?
Click to expand...

The use of "hardly optimal" is doing a hell of a lot of heavy lifting to defend Israel's actions prior to October.

Edit: poor use of the word defending, what I meant was it's looking past a long history of Israeli action against Palestine and Gaza which ultimately caused Hamas.
 
2mufc0 said:
Once Hamas is gone I hope you and your fellow citizens can put some pressure on your government to make a genuine attempt to establish a Palestinian state or integrate them into Israel, especially now having first hand experience on how they have been living over these decades.
Click to expand...
That's never going to happen. Ever.
 
2mufc0 said:
Once Hamas is gone I hope you and your fellow citizens can put some pressure on your government to make a genuine attempt to establish a Palestinian state or integrate them into Israel, especially now having first hand experience on how they have been living over these decades.
Click to expand...

I can't see it happening. Too many Israelis have moved to the right over the years, mostly out of fear and the deadly results and failure of the nineties peace proccess. I can't see that changing now, after the Hamas attack. Most people will look at the West Bank not as a partner for peace but as a possible source for another attack.

The pressure HAS to come from overseas, starting with the White House. It's the only hope.
 
Palestinians have no chance, anyone that matters seems to have decided history started on october 7. October 7 is now the answer to everything: war crimes, murders, ethnic cleansing, it doesn't matter.
 
mitChley said:
The use of "hardly optimal" is doing a hell of a lot of heavy lifting to defend Israel's actions prior to October.
Click to expand...

I won't defend Israel's actions. I think Israel is an apartheid state and that its treatment of the Palestenians has been atrocious, murderous at times.

But Israel wasn't attacking Gaza for fun and was looking to make some allowances (like the working permits I mentioned). Hardly enough, but it was an attempt for improvement.
 
mitChley said:
The use of "hardly optimal" is doing a hell of a lot of heavy lifting to defend Israel's actions prior to October.
Click to expand...

Very interesting to analyze the language used almost everywhere in the media, which seems to leak into those that support israel. If you talk about hamas and don't open a small parenthesis to say they are terrorists, oh boy. However, to talk about palestinians, we have unending lists of euphemisms to describe what's happening.
 
Roane said:
I know it makes a few people on here uncomfortable but the plan seems to be ethnic cleansing
Click to expand...
This is anti-Semitic, trying to paint the Israeli state as murders is anti-Semitic regardless of how you feel
 
Amir said:
So yeah, under those circumstances, people don't particularly care about the civilians of Gaza and especially aren't going to scold the IDF for its methods. It's unfortunate, but I think it's also understandable. We're only human.
Click to expand...

Israelis didn't care about the citizens of Gaza before these circumstances either.
 
E-mal said:
This is anti-Semitic, trying to paint the Israeli state as murders is anti-Semitic regardless of how you feel
Click to expand...

No is not. Specially when palestinians are semitic too. Regardless how you feel
 
4bars said:
So what is going on in the West Bank where Hamas is not there? more than 100 people among them 38 children killed? hundreds had their house stolen. What is the excuse?
Click to expand...

Hamas is there as well, actually. Just not with the same numbers, tools or control.

But that's not nearly the only reason for those deaths. I think the IDF is far too trigger happy there, and also the setllers - some of whom are terrorists themselves - have been given a free hand, which is shocking. But unfortunately, not new - especially with this government.

Regarding the numbers, I assume that the 38 children include mostly teenagers and not actual kids. Unfortunately, they are old enough to hold and weapon - and many do so.
 
Amir said:
While I understand you, I think you should look at it from the Israelis point of view.

1,400 people are dead. Others are abducted, missing or injured. A large number of people have been evacuated from the south or north and are living elsewhere, without anyone knowing how long it would take. Communities have been destroyed. People have lost their homes and everything in it, and are left with nothing. Survivors, including children, saw their loved one being executed. Rockets are fired daily. People are scared to leave their homes. Lives have been massively interrupted, with different ramifications on people's abilities to earn a living.

The country, as a whole, is still in shock and mourning. And the idea we'll ever be able to just go on knowing Hamas is on the other side of the border, after what we've seen its capable of, is unthinkable. It's too scary.

So yeah, under those circumstances, people don't particularly care about the civilians of Gaza and especially aren't going to scold the IDF for its methods. It's unfortunate, but I think it's also understandable. We're only human.
Click to expand...
So are they.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Israelis didn't care about the citizens of Gaza before these circumstances either.
Click to expand...

I can only repeat what I've written another poster:

This is not the first time Israel has bombed Gaza and killed innocent people. In previous occasions, there was always a large number of Israelis who were vocally against it - even though they did not have the power to stop it by themselves.

Now, very few people in Israel care. The attack from Hamas broke people, broke lefties, like myself.

As for people caring about the daily lives in Gaza before all this started, I'd say most people lived in ignorance more than anything.
 
2mufc0 said:
I hope you and your fellow citizens can put some pressure on your government to make a genuine attempt to establish a Palestinian state or integrate them into Israel, especially now having first hand experience on how they have been living over these decades.
Click to expand...
And less than 30 minutes later…..

Amir said:
Regarding the numbers, I assume that the 38 children include mostly teenagers and not actual kids. Unfortunately, they are old enough to hold and weapon - and many do so.
Click to expand...
 
Giggsyking said:
So are they.
Click to expand...

The Hamas people who butchered people are sub human as far as I am concerned.

Look, I understand that it's easy to look at it from the outside and think that Israel - a country with massive military power - should have responded differently, more mildly, to the attack from Hamas. But how many countries would truly do that?
 
Amir said:
The Hamas people who butchered people are sub human as far as I am concerned.

Look, I understand that it's easy to look at it from the outside and think that Israel - a country with massive military power - should have responded differently, more mildly, to the attack from Hamas. But how many countries would truly do that?
Click to expand...
What adjective do you use to describe IDF officials who authorize the bombing of hospitals, refugee camps and other civilian infrastructure?
 
Amir said:
The Hamas people who butchered people are sub human as far as I am concerned.

Look, I understand that it's easy to look at it from the outside and think that Israel - a country with massive military power - should have responded differently, more mildly, to the attack from Hamas. But how many countries would truly do that?
Click to expand...

But Israel aren't just killing Hamas. They are killing thousands of innocent men women and children who have the misfortune of being in Israel's open air prison.
 
Pardon my ignorance, but where is Palestine's backing ? Would it not be in their neighbours interest to retaliate ? If Israel can be backed by America & co... ?
 
Gringo said:
Pardon my ignorance, but where is Palestine's backing ? Would it not be in their neighbours interest to retaliate ? If Israel can be backed by America & co... ?
Click to expand...
Nobody cares about them.
 
Sweet Square said:
And less than 30 minutes later…..
Click to expand...

What's your issue with that? I've been reading daily reports about the deaths in the West Bank, including the names and ages of the Palestenian people who died. And yeah, 17-18 year olds are not neccesarily innocent kids - depending on their actions. I mean, 18 year olds are drafted to the IDF and do battle in Gaza right now.

Sorry if that bit of reality doesn't fit with the way you'd like to view things.
 
maniak said:
What adjective do you use to describe IDF officials who authorize the bombing of hospitals, refugee camps and other civilian infrastructure?
Click to expand...

Has anyone authorized the bombing of a hospital?

I know what you're trying to get out of me, but it won't happen. The safety of my family, my friends and my country comes first. If my country can't provide it, it has no right to exist.
 
mitChley said:
But Israel aren't just killing Hamas. They are killing thousands of innocent men women and children who have the misfortune of being in Israel's open air prison.
Click to expand...

A more surgical operation is plausible, but would cause the deaths of many more Israeli soldiers. A price we're not willing to pay.

Hamas is hiding behind those women and children. it's unforunate, but that's the problem Hamas caused and is still causing by itself - first by doing that and then by making us desperate to destroy its military abilities.
 
Amir said:
I can only repeat what I've written another poster:

This is not the first time Israel has bombed Gaza and killed innocent people. In previous occasions, there was always a large number of Israelis who were vocally against it - even though they did not have the power to stop it by themselves.

Now, very few people in Israel care. The attack from Hamas broke people, broke lefties, like myself.

As for people caring about the daily lives in Gaza before all this started, I'd say most people lived in ignorance more than anything.
Click to expand...

How do you think this will end? From my distant, non-involved perspective, it looks like Gaza will be razed and depopulated to be followed by an acceleration of settlement of the Left Bank such that there is no basis for a Palestinian state anymore. From what you are saying, it sounds like the result of the Hamas attack was to drive more liberal Israelis into the more militant camp.
 
Gringo said:
Pardon my ignorance, but where is Palestine's backing ? Would it not be in their neighbours interest to retaliate ? If Israel can be backed by America & co... ?
Click to expand...
What makes you think Palestine has any backing, except the lip service? Besides, nobody in the world can stand against US.
 
Amir said:
Has anyone authorized the bombing of a hospital?

I know what you're trying to get out of me, but it won't happen. The safety of my family, my friends and my country comes first. If my country can't provide it, it has no right to exist.
Click to expand...
To be honest, from your posts you seem like a lost cause, so I don't really expect anything. The fact you can see what your fellow citizens suffered as something truly horrific and at the same time you fail to see that your country is inflicting the same to other innocent people just astonishes me.
 
Frosty said:
IDF spokesperson confirms Israel carried out strike on Jabalia refugee camp

Israel Defense Forces (IDF) spokesperson Daniel Hagari is giving a televised news conference, where he said the Israeli military “managed to eliminate the terrorist murderer Ibrahim Biari” on Tuesday.

Biari was “the main leader of combat” since Israel forces entered northern Gaza, Hagari said. During his “elimination, many terrorists were killed,” he said.

He said the targeting of the building where Biari was in also “led to the collapse of other things because there was a very extensive infrastructure there”.
Click to expand...
Bloody Palestinians building their apartment blocks so close together.
 
Amir said:
What's your issue with that? I've been reading daily reports about the deaths in the West Bank, including the names and ages of the Palestenian people who died. And yeah, 17-18 year olds are not neccesarily innocent kids - depending on their actions. I mean, 18 year olds are drafted to the IDF and do battle in Gaza right now.
Click to expand...
Er….yeah a 17 year old is still a kid btw. I also think it’s pretty fecked up a 18 year dumb feck can be drafted into the IDF although I guess that adds to the Starship Troopers vibe.
 
Amir said:
Hamas is there as well, actually. Just not with the same numbers, tools or control.

But that's not nearly the only reason for those deaths. I think the IDF is far too trigger happy there, and also the setllers - some of whom are terrorists themselves - have been given a free hand, which is shocking. But unfortunately, not new - especially with this government.

Regarding the numbers, I assume that the 38 children include mostly teenagers and not actual kids. Unfortunately, they are old enough to hold and weapon - and many do so.
Click to expand...

Really you had to add the last sentence? that means that everyone that has arms (I mean the body parts) is a threat? you know that is not true. It had been killings shooting at the back and just as statistics, just in 2022, 5 were under 13 years old, 3 were under 8 years old and 1 was 2 years old. Please, refrain to excuse the settlers and the IDF. is a constant justification and moving goalposts for what israel is doing
 
maniak said:
To be honest, from your posts you seem like a lost cause, so I don't really expect anything. The fact you can see what your fellow citizens suffered as something truly horrific and at the same time you fail to see that your country is inflicting the same to other innocent people just astonishes me.
Click to expand...
It's a war. It's not a police action.
 
Amir said:
This is not the first time Israel has bombed Gaza and killed innocent people. In previous occasions, there was always a large number of Israelis who were vocally against it - even though they did not have the power to stop it by themselves.

Now, very few people in Israel care. The attack from Hamas broke people, broke lefties, like myself.
Click to expand...

What you are telling me is that the conviction that "bombing innocent civilians is bad" lasted as long as Israelis felt any actual fear. It's not a very flattering picture you're painting.
 
marktan said:
Most of them (UAE, Saudi, Egypt) are heavily influenced by the USA and in many cases funded and/or afraid of regime change if they're unfriendly (long history), so won't get involved outside of token platitudes.

You have a few who would help (Hizbollah, Iran, now the Houthis in Yemen), but they're obviously hesitant because the US will bomb them back to 1990. The real issue is Israel's stranglehold on the US. Remove that and you stop these one sided, mindless bloodsheds ever 2 years. Israel can basically do whatever it wants because it wields a massive amount of power on politicians in the US.
Click to expand...
Never understood why Israel has such an outsize influence on the US.
 
MoskvaRed said:
How do you think this will end? From my distant, non-involved perspective, it looks like Gaza will be razed and depopulated to be followed by an acceleration of settlement of the Left Bank such that there is no basis for a Palestinian state anymore. From what you are saying, it sounds like the result of the Hamas attack was to drive more liberal Israelis into the more militant camp.
Click to expand...

Which is precisely what its done. Even left wing Israelis seem to have finally come around to the idea that having Hamas as a neighbor is unsustainable going forward.
 
ThatsGreat said:
Never understood why Israel has such an outsize influence on the US.
Click to expand...

the truth lies between reality and tin foil hat influences. But they exist. Also evangelicals. Is all about fecking religion. Again
 
I can't comprehend how the perpetrators of these actions can justify them to themselves given their religious beliefs.
 
Raoul said:
Which is precisely what its done. Even left wing Israelis seem to have finally come around to the idea that having Hamas palestinians as neighbors is unsustainable going forward.
Click to expand...

This seems to be more the case.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.