Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

"As it drops bomb after bomb on Palestinians in Gaza, Israel is giving 1000s of machine guns to extremist Israelis, including settlers in the Palestinian West Bank. There have already been reports of Israeli settlers using the weapons to attack every Palestinian they see," the California-based Institute for Middle East Understanding (IMEU) said on social media Thursday.
 


I can not beielve this is being aired on national TV, how this is acceptable? I am disgusted, but not surprised. Western media is biased, US media is disgustingly biased, FOX are on another level, the worst level.
 
Giggsyking said:


I can not beielve this is being aired on national TV, how this is acceptable? I am disgusted, but not surprised. Western media is biased, US media is disgustingly biased, FOX are on another level, the worst level.
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Wow, that's wild from FOX.
 
calodo2003 said:
They were being sarcastic. They are in no way advocating for such atrocities.
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Hope so.

Kaos said:
I think the point is these Palestinians have been so dehumanised and deemed worthless by the Israeli government and society, as well as their power-bearing allies, that these settlers, through years of enablement have come to see them as nothing but vermin, occupying homes and lands they feel they're entitled to by divine right.

If they're not being punished for it (heck they're being encouraged), then why would their deranged behaviour be put into check. For them its just another day.
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It still speaks volumes about these people who would happily swoop to such level. To use a vaguely similar example, the rulers of my country of origin, India, are Hindu supremacists and have encouraged in various parts of the country to openly oppress minorities especially Muslims let alone putting any measures to prevent them. Me being a Hindu belonging to a really devoted Hindu family doesn't make me think that I should join the mobs trying to make the lives of innocent people miserable because I have the license to do so. So it's rather baffling to say the least.
 
VorZakone said:
Wow, that's wild from FOX.
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I guess, but not really? The new prime-time team, Hannity included, is still finding their footing a bit & have tried to stake out a bit more of radical opinions to differentiate themselves from the past regime. This tack has markedly increased viewership numbers, so we probably will see more gonzo opinions like these for some time & they will become just background noise to their loyal sheep.
 
Moby said:
Hope so.


It still speaks volumes about these people who would happily swoop to such level. To use a vaguely similar example, the rulers of my country of origin, India, are Hindu supremacists and have encouraged in various parts of the country to openly oppress minorities especially Muslims let alone putting any measures to prevent them. Me being a Hindu belonging to a really devoted Hindu family doesn't make me think that I should join the mobs trying to make the lives of innocent people miserable because I have the license to do so. So it's rather baffling to say the least.
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Every country has its makeup of people who are good folk, and those who are deranged and morally inept. Whether thats Israel, India, Palestine or pretty much any nation. The trouble is when the scumbags are being enabled and encouraged (directly or otherwise) to behave abhorrently by their government in order to serve their nefarious goals.

A decent society would punish these people to the harshest degree. Unfortunately, the Israeli government seems them as useful pawns in their goals to annex as much Palestinian territory as possible, and they're doing so with the blessing of their allies, notably the US. The issue of course is this is counter-intuitive to any lasting peace or stability as it only incenses the people at the receiving end, driving them to respond in extreme kind themselves.
 
Moby said:
Every single video I've seen of these settlers they've come across the creepiest most mentally deranged human beings one can imagine.
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That's one of the many perverse effects of the colonization and it's not specific to the Israeli settlers. It happens every single time, without a fail. The longer the colonization goes, the worse it gets. Until it explodes.

People simply end up not considering the occupied/colonized population as fellow humans. It becomes so ingrained in the public psyché, at various degrees, that many of them would be sincerely astounded if you tell them that what they're doing is wrong, that their laws for dealing the "natives" are wrong.

It's as morally degrading for the occupier as for the occupied.

And that's something a big chunk of the posters here don't understand or don't want to understand.
 
Giggsyking said:


I can not beielve this is being aired on national TV, how this is acceptable? I am disgusted, but not surprised. Western media is biased, US media is disgustingly biased, FOX are on another level, the worst level.
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What's there not to believe? Even the supposedly more progressive US media outlets have pretty much been cheerleading Israel's heavy-handed approach, and you'd be lucky to get a modicum of sympathy from them towards the Palesitnians. The country is completely bewitched in their obsession with Israel, to the point it rivals patriotism for their own nation.
 
HTG said:
Who’s victim blaming? They countries refusing to take in refugees aren’t victims. The victims are Palestinians. And they should be free to choose.
And acknowledging this, doesn’t mean that one condones the actions of Israel. It just means that the situation requires the international community to provide aid and refuge.
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The situation requires the international community to stop a wealthy, nuclear armed state from massacring the two million people it has imprisoned.
 
Moby said:
Every single video I've seen of these settlers they've come across the creepiest most mentally deranged human beings one can imagine.
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The Hebron settlers are particularly bad, along with some residents of several notorious settlements located between Ramallah and Nablus, and of course the so-called “hilltop youth” who regularly attempt and succeed in establishing remote outposts designed to facilitate confrontation with nearby Palestinians. These are the settlers who, with state-backing, seek out conflict and generally make Palestinians’ lives an absolute misery.

Then you have a broader category of ideologically-driven settlers who may not necessarily engage in violence themselves, but use the institutions of the state - particularly the courts and police - in order to expand the settler presence in strategically-identified areas, probably most infamously around East Jerusalem.

Not all settlers are ideologically-driven or even necessarily religious, For curiosity’s sake I had a night out in Ariel once - you can take a bus direct from the bus station in south Tel Aviv and proceed without any indication you’ve passed into occupied territory. On the face of it it’s a fairly standard Israeli town with a mostly secular population, a few bars, shops, parks, etc., and a university. It struck me as a very boring place where you’re pretty much completely insulated from the messed up political context in which Ariel is quite centrally placed. I remember wondering if some of the residents even knew/understood the full significance of where they living. Given that many if not most maps of Israel you encounter there do not include the Green Line or distinguish the West Bank in any notable way, it is not out of the question (e.g. according to a 2011 poll, a large majority of Israelis believe the Jordan Valley is part of Israel, not in the West Bank).
 
Giggsyking said:


I can not beielve this is being aired on national TV, how this is acceptable? I am disgusted, but not surprised. Western media is biased, US media is disgustingly biased, FOX are on another level, the worst level.
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It's absolutely insane. This guy is a criminal.

We can say what we want about Europe and their coverage but if someone spoke like this on a mainstream media, they'd be publicly shredded, fired and would probably end up with a lawsuit for hate speech.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Did some light googling and there is no evidence of white supremacism as of now, not even from daily mail. Let's be careful with these biased sources.
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Officials haven't disclosed a motive for the slaying or said whether they're probing a possible hate crime, but the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Houston said it is tracking the case closely.

What do you think the motives are?
 
Giggsyking said:
Officials haven't disclosed a motive for the slaying or said whether they're probing a possible hate crime, but the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Houston said it is tracking the case closely.

What do you think the motives are?
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Based on witness accounts of the slaying, he sounds absolutely mental.
 
Moby said:
And it wouldn't bother you what happens to the people who lived in those homes? Do you generally go around stealing others property that's been left unattended?
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I thought that putting things like "lovely government" and the general tone would be understood as satire...but well, I'll clarify. the video was disgusting
 
That_Bloke said:
It's absolutely insane. This guy is a criminal.

We can say what we want about Europe and their coverage but if someone spoke like this on a mainstream media, they'd be publicly shredded, fired and would probably end up with a lawsuit for hate speech.
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Fox isn't mainstream media, or so they keep telling us and in reality the cable news channel audiences aren't that big across the board, the US has a population of 330 Million or so, the UK is around about a 5th of that, yet the BBC 10pm News show gets around the same viewing figures as Fox, CNN or MSNBC - not directly comparable I know but the truth is most people don't watch Fox or CNN
 
Red in STL said:
Fox isn't mainstream media, or so they keep telling us and in reality the cable news channel audiences aren't that big across the board, the US has a population of 330 Million or so, the UK is around about a 5th of that, yet the BBC 10pm News show gets around the same viewing figures as Fox, CNN or MSNBC - not directly comparable I know but the truth is most people don't watch Fox or CNN
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I stand corrected and get what you're saying.

However the fact that this human piece of fecal matter is even allowed to spit this kind of heinous bile, with images of buildings being bombed into oblivion in the background and his guests laughing at his dubious jokes on such a tragic matter, is still shocking to me. There's no way this would happen in Europe. No way. I don't think that it would even be aired. He'd be torn to pieces, this goes for his channel as well, and in search for a job in the following day. Just like any anti-Israeli nutter going on a rant like this would be promptly shut down, and rightly so.

Fox might not have the BBC numbers but there's still people watching. And a lot of people in the US don't have the slightest clue about this conflict.

This guy is a criminal, and I'm not throwing around this word lightly.
 
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Giggsyking said:
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You can make thousands of institutions to help people, children, women, the old and what not. But in the end you are nothing when couple of superpowers decide to kill them all. You can tweet or write petitions which will get torn and thrown into the trash. That's about it.
 
People say you cant justify Hamas' attacks. Sure I get that. But on the same hand these people will justify Israel's killings in Gaza through Hamas. As of now, Israel has murdered around 5x more people than Hamas on Oct 7th. Very little condemnation from the Western media and politicians, because "right to self defence". So self defence is invoked as justification, but the occupation is not? Horrific to see.
 
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2cents said:
The Hebron settlers are particularly bad, along with some residents of several notorious settlements located between Ramallah and Nablus, and of course the so-called “hilltop youth” who regularly attempt and succeed in establishing remote outposts designed to facilitate confrontation with nearby Palestinians. These are the settlers who, with state-backing, seek out conflict and generally make Palestinians’ lives an absolute misery.

Then you have a broader category of ideologically-driven settlers who may not necessarily engage in violence themselves, but use the institutions of the state - particularly the courts and police - in order to expand the settler presence in strategically-identified areas, probably most infamously around East Jerusalem.
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Interesting post. I saw this video recently and you get to see how different people from different backgrounds and ages have justified and internalized this

 
Highfather_24 said:
Interesting post. I saw this video recently and you get to see how different people from different backgrounds and ages have justified and internalized this

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Love me some more Abby Martin.

I don't blame these people one bit, no matter how horrifiying their line of thoughts is.

I've heard the same things from my ex-wife who was in Tel-Aviv ten years ago and remember how shocked she was when she listening to her Israeli friends talking about the Palestinians. It was the same discourse we hear in this video. I thought at the time that she should've chosen a much better company. Note also that almost all of them don't even name them as Palestinians, just Arabs (the enemy that can't be trusted and should either be driven out or preferably killed). Which is an incredible tell tale about how fecked up things are there, how far we are from a recognition of Palestine as a state and why the international community has to step in in that region.

I've mentioned in one of my previous posts how colonization wrecks people's minds, be it the the occupied population or the occupier. How dehumanization eventually happens and firmly settles in when this fecked up way of life dictates your daily dealings. These people are its embodiment. You then have the state sponsored brainwashing with a religious dimension as the absolute icing on the cake. It is often thrown at the Arabs in general and the Palestinians in particular, but one has to understand that it's as much present in the Israeli society. Thank God not every Israeli thinks the same way as these guys but it is a reality that can't be ignored.

Ronnie Barkan's bit in this video is something every poster in this thread should hear.
 
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Such a tragic situation. No hope of any positive outcomes, no chance of reconciliation in the near term. A path to pure destruction, and complex propaganda facilitating the murder of innocent people.

We can all debate they why’s and wherefore of the situation. Interpreting the history of the situation to fit a narrative.

But it’s better to ignore that and consider this incident in isolation. The hamas attack is achieving its aims, Israel’s response means no peace between Arabs and Israel for generations.
 
Giggsyking said:


I can not beielve this is being aired on national TV, how this is acceptable? I am disgusted, but not surprised. Western media is biased, US media is disgustingly biased, FOX are on another level, the worst level.
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It's acceptable because it's against Muslims. You'd never see such rhetoric being acceptable for any other religion.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
You can make thousands of institutions to help people, children, women, the old and what not. But in the end you are nothing when couple of superpowers decide to kill them all. You can tweet or write petitions which will get torn and thrown into the trash. That's about it.
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Put so crudely yet sadly, so true. And not only that, you can put together international laws, rules of engagement, world organisations of nations to supposedly deal with global matters, and many other things to protect the most basic of rights of a human being. But again, all completely meaningless if the big bad bully has your back.

I often think to myself, the world is an incredibly fragile place. And we often aren’t far from worldwide chaos. And then when you combine this context with the context above, and remember there have been two horrific world wars in just the last century and that’s ignoring all the other guff that’s happened, you have to think … what makes us better than the humans of the last century? Probably massive hyperbole / doom mongering… but honestly don’t think it’s that far from reality.
 
Highfather_24 said:
Interesting post. I saw this video recently and you get to see how different people from different backgrounds and ages have justified and internalized this

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The more I read or listen to about life in Israel the more it seems just a "far out" place.

I've been reading about the 350000 odd people, kids who were born to a Jew in a mix marriage, who can't marry a Jew, can't be buried in a Jewish cemetery etc because the mother isn't Jewish but father is.

I've also been reading about the "price tags" which is when the authority tells the settlers to do something and they will attack the Palestinians and their own police etc as a sort of "resistance".

And Palestinian police officer don't have the right to chastise or arrest a Jew.

I can only imagine why we get views like in the video of that's what you are brought up in
 
Highfather_24 said:
Interesting post. I saw this video recently and you get to see how different people from different backgrounds and ages have justified and internalized this

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The lack of empathy and the entitlement to "their god given land" is just so feckd. Also calling Palestinians "arabs" sounds like a way to say they dont actually belong in the country.

Gaza is turned to rubble, Israeli soldiers blinded by hate and the thirst for revenge kills who they want, world goes on.
 
That_Bloke said:
Note also that almost all of them don't even name them as Palestinians, just Arabs
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YouOnlyLiveTwice said:
Also calling Palestinians "arabs" sounds like a way to say they dont actually belong in the country
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It’s pretty standard for Israeli Jews to refer to Palestinians as “the Arabs” and for Palestinians to refer to Israelis as “the Jews”. Been that way since the beginning of all this I guess, before “Palestinian” and “Israeli” came to signify what they do today.
 
That_Bloke said:
It's absolutely insane. This guy is a criminal.

We can say what we want about Europe and their coverage but if someone spoke like this on a mainstream media, they'd be publicly shredded, fired and would probably end up with a lawsuit for hate speech.
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GBNews probably isn't far behind Fox in allowing/wanting such "contributors".
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Why are they running like that? Is it like whoever throws in their used underwear through the window first, gets the house?
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Seems like it is a 'finder's keepers' situation which makes it even more surreal & unacceptable.

It's like watching the idiots run through the doors at big box stores on Black Friday.
 
Moby said:
Every single video I've seen of these settlers they've come across the creepiest most mentally deranged human beings one can imagine.
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You see these videos, the Abby Martin video interviewing people in Jerusalem, the photo of people watching the bombing in Gaza like it's a cinema and the poll just come up, and reminded that people and governments were sharing videos of Palestinians celebrating when Hamas attacked Israel, chants of the river to the sea etc in order to dehumanize them, call them anti-semites and advocate for their killing. Yet, no one would dare use examples of these Israelis and dehumanize them, call them racist Islamophobes and justify their deaths.

Being raised post 9/11 though, I've been used to seeing this hypocrisy play out in some western countries.
 
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