Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
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Jesus Christ.
It must be hell on Earth there and it's not even the main assault. I fear we're going to see casualties in the tens of thousands.
Great to see. I hope for further mobilization from Israeli society. They are the ones who can pressure the most to stop the war.
Norwegian government finally grew some balls and now officially speaking up against Israel's actions now. Hope more follow suit.
I mean he's not wrong, Erdogan showed his true colours in Syria when he decided to rain hellfire on the Kurds who were fighting ISIS.
But it's amusing how they've decided this now.
There’s one next Saturday. I thought you’re based in Ireland anyway? You flying in?
They've been saying the same thing for weeks now, during which all comms were still working. There are still TV feeds coming in and out of Gaza, so its likely this latest one will still reach people clustered together in hospitals and shelters.
Anyone got more info about this? If any of this is true, it will come to light when Israel investigates what happened on the 7th and it will further divide the Israeli society…
Nothing particularly surprising here, but still harrowing to hear it straight from those on the inside.
It’s a pointless message though, as the south has seen death and destruction from the bombs too, and some are stuck in hospitals, others are in their homes but either very elderly, ill or disabled. These warnings mean very little when there are many who simply incapable of just upping and leaving their neighbourhood. Feels like it’s just pandering so they can say ‘look how different we are from Hamas’ and yet when people do migrate south, they face indiscriminate bombings there too.
Yep the timing is pretty funny.
Cheers didn’t know about the one next Saturday. Oh I’m from Dublin but I’m currently living in England just outside of London(Takes only about a 20 minute train journey to get there).
With their bare fecking hands:
There are many, many more.
Israel is going to submerge the horrors of the 7th under giant heaps of Palestinian dead.
There are many, many more.
Israel is going to submerge the horrors of the 7th under giant heaps of Palestinian dead.
The south has been getting sporadically bombed as well (probably to hit tunnels), but I believe a vast majority of the bombing has been in the north. Giving citizens a two week warning before going in is pretty unprecedented in modern times. I'm struggling to find any other examples where this has happened in recent years.
They should put The Imperial March in the background while advancing through Gaza
That twitter account is just relentless anti-Israel conspiracies. I'm sure there's a ready market for that these days.
As for this, I'm pretty sure there was friendly fire that day. But what this video is trying to do is blame the IDF for pretty much the whole massacre, and absolve Hamas for any of the particularly nasty massacring, despite all the available facts.
Been interesting to see atrocity denial in real time. Guaranteed that in the coming years it will be an article of faith for large parts of the left that this massacre basically didn't happen or that Israel staged it. It's already starting to happen.
All good as long they killing them in non barbaric manner
This is just from today. There’s countless videos since Oct 7th showing the same. The Israelis are committing genocide and the Western govts are sitting idly by watching it unfold in real time. We’ll write theses and books and realise when it’s too late that we were wrong and complicit in this atrocity.
This is just nonsense. My friend, who I managed to get back in touch with but have lost touch again since yesterday's outage, was initially working in an MSF mission in a Southern hospital and the area was getting bombed every night. He is currently staying in an IDP camp 10 minutes from the Rafah border hoping to be let out soon and the bombardment there i also relentless. They're also bombarding from the sea, again near the area he's currently in.
Its funny that you think the 2 weeks is because of a humanitarian concern from the IDF.
As long as they keep bombing the south, the Rafah crossing etc I’m taking these warnings with a heavy dose of scepticism. If people are dying from the bombs in places they were being told to go by Israel, then another such warning hold little weight, if at all. A cynic might even say it’s little more than a PR exercise to pander to the west.
That’s precisely what it is and isn’t anything new from the Israelis given their policy of roof knocks. They could of course not do anything at all, which would be the least desirable approach given that they are committed to going in.
That's precisely what it isn't. Its been 2 weeks of flattening Gaza to minimise their own losses once their ground troops go in, bring American assets into play to try to dissuade other actors from joining in and likely preparing the north to ensure they don't get sucker punched by Hezbollah while the bulk of the armed forces are in Gaza/ protecting settlers in the West Bank.
Undoubtedly, you take almost anything they say at face value, including the lack of strikes on the South.
You’ve got to be careful around the people who are openly supporting or openly ok with what crimes, brutality and cruelty Israel is carrying out.
If they can do that, throwing you under the bus for some pointless shit at work/uni is a piece of cake.
Just saying
If they can do that, throwing you under the bus for some pointless shit at work/uni is a piece of cake.
Just saying
Many seem to genuinely think that the IDF is trying to kill as many Gazans as possible. It's obviously not otherwise a million would be dead by now. Surely that's just blindingly obvious.
What they're doing is brutal and bad enough, but the hyperbole and genocide talk is way off.
Genocide is a broader term than just "kill all of them". If the ultimate goal of Israel is to gradually force the Palestinians out of Gaza and the West Bank, then that would be genocide.
I'm struggling to find any other examples of cutting off power, food, medical aid and barely letting any water in, while bombing the living shit of a population that just can't escape. The Gazans have nowhere to go, nowhere is safe, the reports are unanimous. Moving that many under those conditions simply isn't doable, no matter if two days or two weeks.
Military experts say that the bombing isn't really that effective when the Hamas members are hiding in tunnels 20-40m deep unless you use bunker busters which would in return level the place they hit and its surroundings. They'll also tell you that urban warfare in a pile of rubble is much more costly than in an environment where buildings are mostly intact. The IAF and IDF went in medieval, in vengeance mode. You have high ranking members of the government and the IDF openly state that they also consider the Gazans responsible for the atrocities on 7/10. They are collectively punishing the population while hitting targets based on intel that could well be outdated when the strike is carried out. The terrorists aren't going to stay in one place and kindly wait for the F-16s to wipe them out. If not for the US reigning them in, the Israelis would already have launched their ground invasion. Even Biden is astoundingly calling for restraint.
Sure they're killing a Hamas leader and destroying weapons or ammo caches here and there. But "softening" the Hamas defenses is coming at an unacceptable cost for the civilians and the worst thing is, they won't wipe them out. Even with the ground offensive. This ain't happening, unless they literally erase Gaza off the face of the Earth and that also includes its population. The IDF can and will oust them from Gaza as a governing entity, sure, but they won't eradicate them. And with what's happening not only in Gaza but also in the West Bank right now, they're making sure that the Hamas or the next terrorist organization that takes their place won't lack recruits to carry out senseless massacres in the future.
You seem to think or promote the idea that the IDF are somewhat upholding western standards when it comes to their RoE with the Palestinians. The way they behaved in Gaza and the West Bank not only today but also in the past decades, this is supported by countless reports of humanitarian and UN organizations, are enough to tell you that they're not and never have. They're more in line with the Russians'.
There's a reason why associations like "Breaking the Silence" have seen the day.
Israel is massively losing the battle of opinions, at an alarming rate, which is also where the Hamas was waiting for them. Quite incredible when the horrible massacre in Israel only happened
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This is implicit in any war, particularly in those with a lopsided power differential where the weaker side initiates the fighting. All of this could’ve been easily prevented had Hamas not attacked on 10.7 .
All of which was preventable a mere three weeks ago. The Israelis are now operating out of an existential trauma driven by a mindset that they cannot exist as a nation whilst bordered by an organization that exists for the sole purpose of annihilating them. Public opinion in various other countries won’t count for much if the Israelis believe their very existence is on the line.
This conflict didn’t start on October 7th.
That's great and thanks for the repeated bot like answers but that isn't what we are talking about. I am disputing that a) Israel are not striking the 'safe' South (they are) and b) that the delay is because the IDF is so concerned with Palestinian loss of life, as opposed to trying to ensure they are ready to fight a war and minimise their own losses.
Which I'm not even criticising in this instance by the way. Yes of course any army is going to want to minimise losses of their own soldiers when conducting an attack. Let's just not make up crap though and pretend the South of the strip is currently safe from bombing or that the delay is anything other than selfish in nature.
"Please temporarily leave the north of Gaza. You can then come back to the rubble that used to be your house after we tell you to relocate to the north again".
Right but you're doing it again. Make one random comment (the South is safe) or another (the allowing of 2 weeks for the displacement of people out of the goodness of their hearts is unprecedented) and then when pulled up on it (the South is being bombed/ they've literally bombed the only border crossing that is still functioning/ cut off water/electricity etc) you merely pivot the conversation to talk about the inevitability of it all.
Which is fine if thats the conversation you want to have but don't start it off with false statements.
You’re making an assumption that the south was supposed to be safe when no such guarantees were made that there would be zero military activity there
Yep, and had Hamas not attacked on 10.7, the siege on Gaza would have been lifted, the Palestinians in the West Bank would be given the same rights as their settler counterparts, and the settlers themselves would pack it in, and go home vowing never to build anymore illegal settlements. Right?
First example that comes to mind is Hama in 1982. Syrian forces killed around 10,000-20,000 residents of the city after blockading it off for a month, laying waste to the entire old city with air strikes, and sending troops in to root out the Muslim Brotherhood militants who had effectively seized control, along with anyone suspected of aiding them. The operation brought an end to around six years of relatively low-level insurgency, and Syria barely heard a peep from Islamist militants for the next thirty years.
However the scale was considerably smaller than Gaza today.
Yeah things were great before that.
I'm not making that assumption. I'm saying that being told to move south, out of 'humanitarian concern' rings hollow when the South is also being bombed. There is nowhere safe for them to go.