Sadly, there is no justice in this conflict. None of the many thousands who have died have gotten justice. Most don't even get acknowledgement.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
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Sadly, there is no justice in this conflict. None of the many thousands who have died have gotten justice. Most don't even get acknowledgement.
Nope its entirely irrelevant. Not like its the first hospital bombed in Gaza past few weeks is it?
However I would argue it is the same and is consistent with how conversations usually go and in line with general public perception based on reporting
At the end of the day one side is generally perceived as the victim and a legitimate state after all
And I was referring to the civilians and your earlier comments in the starmer thread. I can see though that you've rowed back some of those comments now so I'll retract what I said.
A very fair point.
Out of interest how many rockets fired by Hamas or the other terror groups ever actually make it out of Gaza and don't fall on random tower blocks etc?
I think people are shocked and saddened and angry and that's appropriate.
Has a single member of the Israeli government ever been brought to justice for crimes committed against Palestinians? Has a single member of Hamas been brought to justice for the same, other than at the end of an Israeli missile?
The Palestinians suffer from a double occupation and there is no justice for them.
Aren't these terrorists using civilian buildings for cover? If that's the case the location wouldn't be random.
There is still nothing credible about what happened to the hospital is there? Still just Hamas and Israel’s individual claims and a bunch of Twitter armchair generals speculating.
Yes but it's much easier to be a 'careful poster' when one discusses football.
This is a very serious matter with lots and lots of lives lost in vain.
And posters will have very strong emotions about it,
whether they are personally related to it or not.
Yes I have and I do appreciate what you have said.
We all have to accept that whatever side of this appalling conflict we come down on, human beings are being killed, or maimed or being forced to endure unimaginable consequences. And for what.
For what purpose.
For what outcome.
For what reason.
Because there is no purpose, no outcome, no reason for what is going on. It is just a complete and utter tragedy for those caught in the middle.
Israel isn't a party.
Yes.
We should all be shocked and saddened and most of all angry.
I am all of those this morning.
Yes.
They always win the PR "fight", always have, and always will.
their people- so much as they care for them- are the real victims of this story for many many decades.
It takes babies being slaughtered from point blank on the Israeli side for people to start talking about "both sides are suffering blah blah".
2M people living essentially in a cage, civilians dead by the thousands, an entire population occupied;
In the best of scenarios from the Israeli government's POV, Israel has maybe 2-3 weeks in every such war with Hamas till they start losing international support and eventually halt their operation.
If something like a hospital blowing up occurs- they will have the serious questions thrown at them immediately.
It's easy for Hamas to do a number here, if that's what is happening.
they have 200 kidnapped people at their disposal, some little children, and they can just stay quiet and see how nobody talks about that anymore, rightly or wrongly.
Exactly that.
Well said.
Horrible situation and once more it is the Palestinian people who suffer for it. 
So what's the theory guys? Israeli space lasers redirected the missile? What we going with?
I've pointedly not joined the calls to lay blame at one side or another, because all the 'evidence' posted so far is not evidence. Though I struggle to believe anything coming from the IDF at all. They do after all have history for doing something, lying about it and then admitting it later once it's not as politically painful.
However, they've gone from having literally no clue at all about the attacks last weekend.....to being in hamas telegram channels which outline exact attack plans and intercepting a call from 2 hamas members saying exactly what they need the world to hear? After initially saying simaltaneously it was both hamas and PIJ?
How convenient.
100% this.
It’s as though people obsess so much about a specific atrocity they lose track of the bigger picture. It was the exact same thing last week when the narrative on social media was all about babies that may or may not have been beheaded, despite knowing for a fact that hundreds of Israelis of all ages had definitely been slaughtered in cold blood by Hamas. Which was really all that mattered.
This hospital thing is becoming a distraction to the bigger picture. Gaza is being bombed back into the stone age. That’s what matters. Not the exact cause of just one of many explosions that happened there over the last week.
Can I blame social media?
If the audio released by Israel is accurate and rockets are fired from locations such as "the parking lot behind the hospital", then it's hardly unlucky but rather an obvious risk.
You can blame social media for everything being more accentuated than before, but it was always like that.
The sheer atrocities- not the normalized ones- are what we remember and what influences us the most when we judge things.
I would think it has to do with our primal instincts or whatever.
I understand what you mean. But personally for me these things do matter nonetheless. The families of the dead deserve to know how their brother, sister, mother or whoever died and who did it. The victims themselves deserve any bit of justice, no matter how small, that we can create, that we can somehow bring into this conflict.
I think what influenced this thinking for me is seeing how there are still trials for people who were Nazis in Germany. Or how there are still historians analysing massacres from the 40s, trying to bring a little closure to the families and a little more justice for the dead.
It might not safe lives. It might not be more than a small gesture of civility and humanity. But I believe that even small gestures like these, little moments of righteousness, make a difference even in the most dire of conflicts.
It’s important. Maybe not now. Maybe not for the war itself. But to me these things matter.
It’s important not to descend into complete chaos and violence. Whatever rest of civility and justice we can preserve is worth it.
This war will end someday. And when it’s over, whatever civility and humanity is left, is the foundation for the time after.
I mean, Israeli intelligence were likely monitoring Hamas channels & individuals anyway as ongoing intel work. Them missing the October 7th attack doesn't mean they're starting from scratch here.
However, the Israelis have been remarkably awful at their PR. They're all over the place, it seems.
If you had to take a guess- I'd say that the evidence Israel has will convince Biden and his higher-ups,
and no one in the general public.
Whether Biden's backing that will continue, is enough for Israel to keep going with what it wants to do, we shall see.
I still think this incident will change things. it might, just might, save some future lives because Israel will have to restrain itself some more.
Hamas, and Israeli past actions, have already made enough people make up their minds.
and no one in the general public.
Whether Biden's backing that will continue, is enough for Israel to keep going with what it wants to do, we shall see.
I still think this incident will change things. it might, just might, save some future lives because Israel will have to restrain itself some more.
Hamas, and Israeli past actions, have already made enough people make up their minds.
Their impunity negates the need for a lot of PR that would otherwise be very necessary.
The Israelis are known liars. They lie repeatedly to cover up their crimes. They weren’t even subtle about it this time round with the hospital bombing.
If their PR manager made a post then deleted it, and so far they’ve changed their story regarding the hospital 3-4 times, what does that tell you? The international community needs to hold them to account. Enough is enough.
If their PR manager made a post then deleted it, and so far they’ve changed their story regarding the hospital 3-4 times, what does that tell you? The international community needs to hold them to account. Enough is enough.
Yes it matters, and to those it really matters to, the demand is not necessarily immediate.
Good point.
I disagree. These events are part of the bigger picture. They are moments of further escalation. They are the base for new hatred and violence. They matter. It matters who did it and why. Same with the story about the babies. There are differences between acts of war and war crimes. Even if the lines can be extremely blurred.
The idea that this doesn’t matter because people die anyway and it’s likely that nobody serves prison time for this, is something I can’t agree with. There is a difference between accidentally hitting civilians and targeting them. There is a difference between lone soldiers and the like committing atrocities and people in command actually ordering them. These things all matter. They are the pieces that make up the whole bigger picture.
They are the basis for judging what actually transpired here. And it baffles me that people on here disregard these events as something that has no importance. They are incredibly significant. And considering the arguments made by many people on here on how they formed their opinions in the conflict as a whole, where they stand and why they do so, shows me that they actually matter to them. They matter like turning of the water supply. They matter like attacking hundreds of people at a music festival.
It all matters.
From a twitter account that's been extremely critical of Israel up to now.
The way the scrapping things together to shift the blame - fecking pathetic
Don’t agree. I think it’s a cynical point. Of course it matters where and why people die. It matters who killed them. If it was an accident or an attack it matters who ordered it. Yes, people are dead no matter what. But these things influence how we deal with this conflict going further. They influence international support or criticism.
And we can actually see that they matter. In these discussions, in the news, at protests and everywhere. They are obviously significant.
At least to me. And I think to others as well.
But sadly this thread has very largely succumbed to people choosing sites and just trying to advocate for their cause.
I think initially it may save lives and anything that deters or tones down a brutal invasion can be seen as a positive at this point. But if this incident becomes fuel to the regional fire then ultimately it may cost many many more lives in the medium term, on all sides.
Mossad were on holiday 2 weeks ago but they're back at work now.
I think this "evidence" isn't going to change anything. Pro-Israelis are going to see it as proof but people against Israel, a country well known for killing civilians and lying about it, aren't going to be convinced.
Where as Hamas are a bunch of honourable, trustworthy gentlemen.