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An interesting analysis.

Analysis: Israel’s Gaza invasion could test its occupation of the West Bank
Israel will struggle to man its ever-increasing checkpoints in the West Bank and flood the Gaza Strip with soldiers.

"...It can be assumed that during this conflict, the Israeli army will eventually deploy up to 50,000 soldiers, a third of its peacetime strength, just to man roadblocks and control stations, some of which will be erected inside Israel too."

(thats just to maintain control of the west bank).

My question is does israel have the manpower to control the west bank and win a ground war with hamas in the gaza strip?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Even 10% of the electorate is “a lot” of people.

Because young people - all of them - are more likely to be left wing than right wing. And the minority of young people who are conservative don’t tend to be big fans of taking illegal drugs. The clue is in the word “conservative”.

This is obvious stuff. Why must people arguing on the internet always double down? You could have conceded that yes, actually most people going to a rave are likely to be liberals without undermining any of your more general points in this thread.
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It's less than 10%.

It would be a huge statistical coincidence to have the vast majority of participants at a rave in a country that is overwhelmingly ambivalent/antagonist towards Palestine, lean leftist (in the sense of having sympathy towards Gaza). Especially when that rave is right next door to Gaza!

There's no indication or proof that most attendants were sympathetic. Plus, it wasn't even a concert for peace.

I'm not the one who made a definitive statement
 
dinostar77 said:
My question is does israel have the manpower to control the west bank and win a ground war with hamas in the gaza strip?
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They already recalled big number of their reserves didn’t they?

Surely they will use the USA tactics first with artillery fire and air support(whilst obviously taking advantage from the siege) before stepping a foot in..
 
dinostar77 said:
An interesting analysis.

Analysis: Israel’s Gaza invasion could test its occupation of the West Bank
Israel will struggle to man its ever-increasing checkpoints in the West Bank and flood the Gaza Strip with soldiers.

"...It can be assumed that during this conflict, the Israeli army will eventually deploy up to 50,000 soldiers, a third of its peacetime strength, just to man roadblocks and control stations, some of which will be erected inside Israel too."

(thats just to maintain control of the west bank).

My question is does israel have the manpower to control the west bank and win a ground war with hamas in the gaza strip?
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They are going to begin arming their radical settlers (and hope those arms never turn against democracy-minded Israelis).
 
Sassy Colin said:
What insight! feck me :lol: :wenger:

You don't think your average Israeli has strong political views, young or old? Seriously?
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The crux of the argument is "if you're not right-wing you (very likely) support peace with Palestinians. These people are not right-wing because they were doing drugs therefore they support peace with Palestinians." I do not think that's true.
 
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Extremely disappointed and surreal that no important country is still not standing up against the war crimes currently unfolding, despite the horrifying images and statements keeps rolling out. Absolute heroes the doctors and nurses that are willing to risk their lives by working under these conditions with no end in sight.
 
dinostar77 said:
My question is does israel have the manpower to control the west bank and win a ground war with hamas in the gaza strip?
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That's a good question. With the IDF's attention focused on the south of Israel right now, it would appear that those terrible, violent settlers have more freedom to harm the palestenians around them. Retaliation might only be a matter of time, which would see us facing two fronts.
 
2cents said:
Gaza was relatively peaceful during the 70s and 80s up to the First Intifada, which was sparked by an incident that happened there. There were curfews and some checkpoints, and of course settlements and the inequality that goes with a military regime, but Israelis and Palestinians could generally travel in and out freely by day, as they could with the West Bank. Some Israelis used to visit fairly regularly for the beaches, sea-side restaurants, and to get a taste of the exotic orient. I personally know an Israeli who went to Gaza several times in those years to visit a particularly famous sea-food restaurant that drew customers from all over.

Of course it was still a messed up situation, with frequent enough episodes of low-level violence. But it was an era when it was expected that freedom for Palestinians would emerge from the diaspora based in neighboring states. The PLO’s flight from Lebanon effectively ended that expectation and it was just a matter of time before the occupied territories took up the mantle.

(edit): to be clear I’m not exclusively blaming Hamas for the deterioration since then, though they’ve played a major role.
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This is such a surreal thing to read. When I was a child in 90s and teenager in early 00s, there never was anything like this. I specifically remember being told never to get into the Muslim quarter of the old city on visiting Jerusalem, as I'd have my throat slit. In Rishon in the 90s we had an automatic weapon under the sofa, and Tel Aviv, you'd keep as wide a berth from Palestinians or potential Palestinians as possible.

Were there mixed schools? Mixed marriages? Is there an article to read or something about this?
 
dinostar77 said:
My question is does israel have the manpower to control the west bank and win a ground war with hamas in the gaza strip?
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Difficult question, which largely depends on how they do it. If they want to turn Gaza into Grozny or Mariupol, they don't need many troops.
 
BarstoolProphet said:
Extremely disappointed and surreal that no important country is still not standing up against the war crimes currently unfolding, despite the horrifying images and statements keeps rolling out. Absolute heroes the doctors and nurses that are willing to risk their lives by working under these conditions with no end in sight.
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It will never happen in the near future, Israel and their lobbies have their hands in every major western government and no one will dare say anything against them unless they want their political ambitions destroyed.

Israel could, and eventually will, wipe Palestine from the face of the earth and they'll still come up and say there should be restraint from both sides.
 
adexkola said:
It's less than 10%.

It would be a huge statistical coincidence to have the vast majority of participants at a rave in a country that is overwhelmingly ambivalent/antagonist towards Palestine, lean leftist (in the sense of having sympathy towards Gaza). Especially when that rave is right next door to Gaza!

There's no indication or proof that most attendants were sympathetic. Plus, it wasn't even a concert for peace.

I'm not the one who made a definitive statement
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10%. 5%. Whatever. Still hundreds of thousands of people. Who will be disproportionately represented amongst the young. Especially those who go to raves.

Anyway, you seem weirdly intent on victim blaming dead teens. Slaughtered at a music festival. Which is too grim for words. So I’ll leave you to it.
 
owlo said:
Were there mixed schools? Mixed marriages? Is there an article to read or something about this?
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In terms of mixed schools, etc, I don’t think so at all. It was still a harsh military occupation overseeing segregated communities. As for reading materials, this is from the Preface of Neve Gordon’s Israel’s Occupation:

IMG-7276.jpg

IMG-7277.jpg
 
I’m dreading what’s going to happen in the coming days. Part of me still says “Nah, it’s not possible they gonna flatten Gaza” but I don’t trust Israel one bit right now. They are baying for blood. Every major country is giving them full support. Nobody is trying to stop this madness. The allies are justifying and even rooting for this barbarism. Israel must be thinking this is their chance to solve this menace once and for all.

Someone tell me that I’m being way too negative. My thoughts are blurry right now.
 
kaku06 said:
I’m dreading what’s going to happen in the coming days. Part of me still says “Nah, it’s not possible they gonna flatten Gaza” but I don’t trust Israel one bit right now. They are baying for blood. Every major country is giving them full support. Nobody is trying to stop this madness. The allies are justifying and even rooting for this barbarism. Israel must be thinking this is their chance to solve this menace once and for all.

Someone tell me that I’m being way too negative. My thoughts are blurry right now.
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Even with my very limited knowledge of the situation I can't comprehend how the overwhelming majority of the rhetoric is on the side of Israel. It's bizarre.
 
2cents said:
In terms of mixed schools, etc, I don’t think so at all. It was still a harsh military occupation overseeing segregated communities. As for reading materials, this is from the Preface of Neve Gordon’s Israel’s Occupation:

IMG-7276.jpg

IMG-7277.jpg
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Thank you. Interesting read. Book worth buying?
 
kaku06 said:
I’m dreading what’s going to happen in the coming days. Part of me still says “Nah, it’s not possible they gonna flatten Gaza” but I don’t trust Israel one bit right now. They are baying for blood. Every major country is giving them full support. Nobody is trying to stop this madness. The allies are justifying and even rooting for this barbarism. Israel must be thinking this is their chance to solve this menace once and for all.

Someone tell me that I’m being way too negative. My thoughts are blurry right now.
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Yes, it's absolutely insane. Feels like I'm living in the world of 1984
 
owlo said:
Yep.

"By and large there is this theory, that if you hit Israel hard then it will compromise. I think, almost without exception it is the reverse. You hit Israel very hard, it hardens, and it fights back, and Israelis get convinced that this is a fight for their lives and the lives of their children, and their babies in cages.They will fight. Part of the idea of the state is there will finally be one place where they can defend themselves. The fact that they failed, so miserably to defend themselves in their home, will just cause them to double down and fight harder, not anything else." (Natan Sachs)

How do you morally [and effectively] resist that?
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I'm sorry, but this is absolute bollox in this day and age. Israel are a regional superpower, with nukes and backing from the most powerful countries in the world. They are never going to face an existential crisis, this is just the claim they can make to get exactly what they want.
 
Berbaclass said:
Thanks!
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Not sure how much time you want to invest in the subject but there a few books I would recomend, you really need to understand the context and the backdrop of the fall of the Ottoman empire and the condition of the region during this period. A lot of people think this started post world war 2 but was brewing after world war 1 and even before then.

As for the books: 'A line in the sand' and 'lords of the desert' by James Barr. Another is 'the ethnic cleansing of Palestine' by Ilan Pappé.
 
Conor said:
I'm sorry, but this is absolute bollox in this day and age. Israel are a regional superpower, with nukes and backing from the most powerful countries in the world. They are never going to face an existential crisis, this is just the claim they can make to get exactly what they want.
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That is almost exactly how most Israelis I’ve spoken to feel right now. Terrified, under siege, and ready to strike back.
 
I wonder if there is some psychological explanation as to how certain descendants (emphasis on certain) of a community which once suffered from heinous genocide are now driven to inflict one themselves?
 
owlo said:
That is almost exactly how most Israelis I’ve spoken to feel right now. Terrified, under siege, and ready to strike back.
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Yes, because of the event and the fact that they've been conditioned to believe it. It's not really borne from reality though, is it.
 
owlo said:
That is almost exactly how most Israelis I’ve spoken to feel right now. Terrified, under siege, and ready to strike back.
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1984

Israel is backed by the worlds superpower and all the western major powers. It's just delusional to think they are at an existential threat. They are the dominant power in the region
 
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