The public opinion doesn't mean much. It is the stance/foreign policy of the respective govt., that matter. I doubt any major nation is asking for an action against Israel for the war crimes they are committing. Most are happy to look the other way and do some lip service like "all lives should be protected".
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
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By never forget, I obviously meant totally mix up.
Completely didn't register with me but you are spot on.
Shows how desensitized I am to it.
Abby Martin's Gaza fights for freedom: Mainly covers the 2019 Great march to return but covers the history of conflict in Gaza. Mind you, its a very difficult watch but it really changed my views which were very mainstream and uninformed; and made me read up a lot on this conflict.
Haaretz were keeping an updated list of Israeli casualties which stood at about 900 last I checked.
Hi tomaldinho, the guy who does not know Israel has bombed hospitals before. Yes, it is me, the German football fan since I was 8 who did not know the concept of West Germany. Sorry for not replying to you, can you post what you said again and I can see whether I can reply.
That's not how it works. Violent revolution is often just desperation. As Pogue said, it's the fact that these organisations are attractive to the Palestinians to any degree that needs to be looked at.
Yes, the change Hamas want is the destruction of Israel. Please don't kid yourself that they care about Palestinians.
Remember Yasser Arafat? The terrorist who realised he might actually get what he wanted (peace for the Palestinians) by negotiating with Israel. Hamas aren't interested in peace. There was a civil war amongst the Palestinians between what was the PLO and Hamas. Had it not been for Hamas, we wouldn't be where we are today.
They were attractive in 2006. Hamas have blocked elections ever since. There's been no violent revolution, just terrorism against a neighbour. And @mu4c_20le has a point. They've blocked elections and diverted important municipal funds to funding their terror. Not to mention, they've just caused a siege and impending invasion in Gaza.
You’re not 50 yet, are you? Still chugging through the sunlit lowlands on the demented auld bastard express. It’s quite a ride, believe me.How bad should it be for Hamas to be seen like a viable option. Besides, doesn't the world call them terrorists. Shouldn't the expectation be on that level.
Nobody is condoning or downplaying what they did. But there are many factors that brought us to today.
Last week. I didn't expect the decline to be immediate!
How different is the living conditions in Gaza since Hamas became a thing in the 80s? Was everything roses before then?
The only factor is a massive and unprecedented terrorist attack.
I understand that but I also feel like this seems to be a watershed kind of moment in the west for many of the average person.
Israel seems to be very much under the spotlight now and I’m seeing huge amounts of sympathy for the Palestinians along with disgust at the tactics being used in Gaza.
Happy Birthday! Definitely the worst one. Existential angst is real.
What point? That Hamas are not the good guys? Everyone knows that, but the overall point is that if there were leafy suburbs and two car families these organisations don't take hold, anywhere.
Hopefully.
Sorry couldn't help myselfIt's a made-up claim from the first days, that it was a "peace festival."
I believe his point was that they have worsened living conditions for the people of Gaza. Which seems factually correct.
The reality is that, once a peace was brokered between the PLO and Israel, there was an opportunity to sort something out to the benefit of all sides. Hamas have destroyed any chance of that opportunity for many years to come.
Thanks!
Personally the idea of partying next to Gaza is abhorrent. Not everyone shares that view, and whatever your viewpoint, you're supposed to go home hangover after a rave, not in a body bag. But if you asked most left leaning youths I don't think they would go, given the location.
It's feasible. Is there any evidence most of them supported peace with Palestine?
A lot?
I was looking at the breakdown of members of the Knesset. A sliver of members are left leaning. Are the left leaning Israelis just not voting or making their views known?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-israeli-left-has-lost-more-than-an-election/
And since when did raves have leftist/right leanings? You go, pop molly and jump to EDM, that's done by young people across the spectrum.
At this point, its a stretch to assume the crowd had leftist leanings.
OK, again we differ, I'd see Israel the determining factor in the living conditions in Gaza. And I don't think thats a controversial view.
Absolutely. Aimé Césaire, his teacher is also well worth a read.
"For the colonized, having a gun is the only chance you still have to give a meaning to your death" (from the "The Dying of Colonialism"). This sentence still haunts me to this day.
A truly extraordinary man who died way too young.
Meanwhile in Washington DC:
This cosplaying weirdo is not Israeli. Neither is he Jewish!
This cosplaying weirdo is not Israeli. Neither is he Jewish!
A brilliant author who had a way with describing awful yet real events.
Gaza was relatively peaceful during the 70s and 80s up to the First Intifada, which was sparked by an incident that happened there. There were curfews and some checkpoints, and of course settlements and the inequality that goes with a military regime, but Israelis and Palestinians could generally travel in and out freely by day, as they could with the West Bank. Some Israelis used to visit fairly regularly for the beaches, sea-side restaurants, and to get a taste of the exotic orient. I personally know an Israeli who went to Gaza several times in those years to visit a particularly famous sea-food restaurant that drew customers from all over.
Of course it was still a messed up situation, with frequent enough episodes of low-level violence. But it was an era when it was expected that freedom for Palestinians would emerge from the diaspora based in neighboring states. The PLO’s flight from Lebanon effectively ended that expectation and it was just a matter of time before the occupied territories took up the mantle.
(edit): to be clear I’m not exclusively blaming Hamas for the deterioration since then, though they’ve played a major role.
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Even 10% of the electorate is “a lot” of people. Several hundred thousand anyway.
Because young people - all of them - are more likely to be left wing than right wing. And the minority of young people who are conservative don’t tend to be big fans of taking illegal drugs. The clue is in the word “conservative”.
This is obvious stuff. Why must people arguing on the internet always double down? You could have conceded that yes, actually most people going to a rave are likely to be liberals without undermining any of your more general points in this thread.
Mind you, victim blaming dead teens is pretty gross.
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I defer to the post that discussed the political leanings of young Israelis & the surrounding kibbutzes. Chances are ravers will more than likely skew left, at least that was my determination during my club kid years. Anecdotal, yes, but pretty consistent wherever I was partying.
It's quite convenient to ask to prove a basically disprovable hunch to buttress an argument. Doesn't mean the argument is buttressed though.
He is exceptional.
Césaire has been on my ever growing to read list for years now.
I found the Irish struggle tricky to engage with as a teen because it was too emotive, not just to me bit to everyone you might talk to, but reading Fanon really helped me engage indirectly but objectively.
Your argument has an enormous flaw which is you're assuming people have strong political views in the first place.
Edit: I looked into it and you're wrong on the merits too. A poll from earlier this year by the Israeli Democracy Institute found that a staggering 65% of young Israelis (18-24 years of age) identify as right-wing. 18% identify as being in the center, and only 12% identify as left-wing. The poll is here. There are also articles discussing this.
So this "obvious stuff" was just a wildly wrong guess.
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"Beware of crossing your arms in the sterile attitude of the spectator, because life is not a spectacle, because a sea of sorrows is not a proscenium, because a man who screams is not a dancing bear."
If it makes you feel better I tripped up on the LUAS line on Abbey Street today in front of about 200 people, couldn’t even break my fall as I was holding someone else’s laptop. Flat on my face.
Slightly. But if I ever piss myself in public in your company don't make an announcement. Maybe a heads up.
Sorry if it’s been posted already but what on earth 