Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

fergieisold said:
Ridiculous. There’s also nothing Israel can do other than go in and try to clear Hamas out. What’s the other option?
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I guess the argument is that this is the opportunity (this government specifically) has been waiting for. I’m not going to go all tin foil and say that they knew what was coming, or were willing to sacrifice civilians in that way, but they have been systematically strangling Palestine and displacing its citizens from their homes for years.
 
do.ob said:
I understand people condemning Israel's counterattack in general. But it's happening either way at this point. So I think it's ironic that some people direct their outrage at the fact that they are sharing their battle plan with the enemy to give at least some people the chance to get away from the fighting and not at Hamad, who are reportedly telling people to stay put.
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You are ignoring literally all of the context. This is not a war between nations in any real sense.
 
marktan said:
This isn't anything new, my memory might not be 100% accurate but I remember them blocking news outlets from Gaza during Cast lead in 2009 and from reporting on it from Israel. Essentially they'd much rather cause destruction without prying eyes, which makes sense. No media = no western outrage. A picture or a video tells a lot more than say, figures saying 6000 bombs dropped or 2000 Gazans dead, for which most people have little reaction too.
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There was definitely a ban on international media in Gaza in 2009.
 
Drizzle said:
There it is again. Even the massacre on their own civilians is Israel's fault.

Also, they're not going to wipe out Gaza's people, stop being ridiculous.
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What percentage of them being blown to pieces would you be comfortable with?
 
gaffs said:
So, why were all the warnings ignored?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/13/poli...tial-gaza-clash-days-before-attack/index.html
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Whenever something happen you have a bunch of reports about a bunch of agencies that warned someone. At this point I don't know if I believe any of that or at least the way it is reported. Maybe Israel got some vague reports about a potential attack in the near future and they either didn't had enough time to check the information and have accurate understanding of the situation or they failed to get accurate information.
 
People are definitely waking up to the zionists bullshit…lots of people in person have spoken to about the situation and all disgusted by them.

Those people being white-British and not Muslims.
 
moses said:
You are ignoring literally all of the context. This is not a war between nations in any real sense.
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It's more of a 'war' than the US against Afghanistan or Iraq for example. They are calling it a war and prosecuting it like a war, against an enemy that has said 'we are at war' and claims to have 40,000 fighters.
 
owlo said:
It's more of a 'war' than the US against Afghanistan or Iraq for example. They are calling it a war and prosecuting it like a war, against an enemy that has said 'we are at war' and claims to have 40,000 fighters.
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More bollocks. It’s not a war no matter the language either side uses. One side has nukes, a navy, army, air force and is backed by the main superpower of the world today supplying munitions and now the UK who are providing ships. What does Hamas have? Be intellectually honest for once.
 
The Corinthian said:
More bollocks. It’s not a war no matter the language either side uses. One side has nukes, a navy, army, air force and is backed by the main superpower of the world today supplying munitions and now the UK who are providing ships. What does Hamas have? Be intellectually honest for once.
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It doesn't need to be fought between equal or similar powers to be a war. You often go to war with an inferior power. Generally you only declare war when you think you will win. There's a reason why Iran, Hezbollah, and even the West Bank want nothing to do with it.
 
owlo said:
It's more of a 'war' than the US against Afghanistan or Iraq for example. They are calling it a war and prosecuting it like a war, against an enemy that has said 'we are at war' and claims to have 40,000 fighters.
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Yeah, the IRA said they were at war with Britain in the 70s. That was also not a war between nations in any real sense. But you are entitled to your opinion.
 
owlo said:
It doesn't need to be fought between equal or similar powers to be a war. You often go to war with an inferior power. Generally you only declare war when you think you will win. There's a reason why Iran, Hezbollah, and even the West Bank want nothing to do with it.
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No, you can declare war as a claim to sovereignity and to rise above being dismissed and being treated as criminals or terrorists.
 
moses said:
Yeah, the IRA said they were at war with Britain in the 70s. That was also not a war between nations in any real sense. But you are entitled to your opinion.
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The IRA didn't have 40,000 fighters, heavy weapons, and de facto control of a territory. They also killed 600 civilians in 30 years. Hamas managed that in about 30 hours.
 
NicolaSacco said:
Israel will never allow that. It’s under their control. I’m not really saying this as a criticism of Israel specifically- if the Palestinians had that same level of control they’d be hanging on too.
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For progress then maybe the rest of the World/UN needs to enforce it, something has to give or our Grand children and great grand children will be having the same discussion decades from now
 
Tibs said:
People are definitely waking up to the zionists bullshit…lots of people in person have spoken to about the situation and all disgusted by them.

Those people being white-British and not Muslims.
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This has been my experience. Although I then look at twitter for30 seconds and despair again.

The language some Israeli politicians have used has been so outrageous that I think a lot of people are genuinely fearful of what will happen next.
 
do.ob said:
I understand people condemning Israel's counterattack in general. But it's happening either way at this point. So I think it's ironic that some people direct their outrage at the fact that they are sharing their battle plan with the enemy to give at least some people the chance to get away from the fighting and not at Hamad, who are reportedly telling people to stay put.
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What a strange post.

When the ‘battle plan’ revolves around starving 2 million people, blanket bombing and then making near impossible request for civilians to evacuate when they have no where to go…

Surely it’s quite obvious why people are more than outraged.
 
I’m not a religious person by any stretch of the imagination, but after a week of increasingly horrific news about the events in Israel and Gaza, I’ll take a moment to think of those whose lives will be irrevocably changed by this conflict.

I’ll take a moment for the 1300 Israelis massacred by the Hamas terrorists, as well as their families, friends and loved ones who had had their hearts ripped out by these terrorists. By extension I’ll also be thinking of the Israelis who face this threat on a daily basis, whilst having no interest in anything more than living the best life they possibly can.

I’ll also be taking a moment for the Palestinians fleeing from the Israeli government’s response. The 450 children who have already been killed in Gaza, the thousands who will surely be killed in the days, weeks and months to come, and the population of innocents who will lose homes, businesses and livelihoods, forced into displacement because of the actions of extremists who account for 1.5% of their population (by comparison 50% are under 18 and 45% are under 14 years old).

I hope that those lost are now free from suffering, and those currently reeling from grief and hurt will find peace in whatever way it may come.
 
Can anyone recommend any good videos or articles that I can read or watch to learn more about this conflict?
 
Red in STL said:
For progress then maybe the rest of the World/UN needs to enforce it, something has to give or our Grand children and great grand children will be having the same discussion decades from now
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Its just an awful situation. But I just can’t imagine external powers enforcing it. Right wing and religious Israelis would riot: it would involve a UN peace keeping force of think. We just seem a million miles away from that
 
Berbaclass said:
Can anyone recommend any good videos or articles that I can read or watch to learn more about this conflict?
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Historically, or for current stuff? I linked an excellent podcast earlier about the current conflict.
 
Berbaclass said:
Can anyone recommend any good videos or articles that I can read or watch to learn more about this conflict?
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I think this is a good one for a general overview in 10 minutes. If you really want a deepdive, then others probably have better sources.

 
NotThatSoph said:
The Palestinians are the ones who aren't planning to displace over a million people who have nowhere to go.
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The post you originally replied to asked why more of the outrage isn't directed at Hamas who hide behind civilians. And who are firing rockets at Israel even now - surely that counts as planning to displace quite a lot of people. They don't really have a chance but the intent is there.
 
owlo said:
It doesn't need to be fought between equal or similar powers to be a war. You often go to war with an inferior power. Generally you only declare war when you think you will win. There's a reason why Iran, Hezbollah, and even the West Bank want nothing to do with it.
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You can argue semantics all you want but the reality is it’s not a war between two nations. One of the parties has been under military occupation for decades. And again, no army to call on, no navy, no air force.
 
owlo said:
Historically, or for current stuff? I linked an excellent podcast earlier about the current conflict.
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Both really. I’ve known there was a historical conflict but also not really very educated on the past or present. I’ll check the podcast out!
 
The West’s support for so much of what Israel is doing is unbelievably stupid and morally unforgivable.
 
Siorac said:
They are literally firing rockets at Israel though. Do you just... not believe that? Because Hamas themselves tend to announce those attacks.
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Is every Palestinian a member of Hamas?
 
Siorac said:
The post you originally replied to asked why more of the outrage isn't directed at Hamas who hide behind civilians. And who are firing rockets at Israel even now - surely that counts as planning to displace quite a lot of people. They don't really have a chance but the intent is there.
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Hamas got plenty of outrage for their actions and now Israel are getting plenty of outrage for theirs.
 
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