Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

I understand people condemning Israel's counterattack in general. But it's happening either way at this point. So I think it's ironic that some people direct their outrage at the fact that they are sharing their battle plan with the enemy to give at least some people the chance to get away from the fighting and not at Hamad, who are reportedly telling people to stay put.
 
The western governments' moral compass is broken. Nothing new, I know, but in the same conflict happening at the same time, it's quite something.

Gunning down civilians in the streets and killing babies? Absolutely barbaric.

Bombing civilians and killing babies by demolishing their homes? Well... you see...
 
Jippy said:
Feel like the last 10 pages is purely people bickering over semantics, interpretations of history, genealogy etc...
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It's one poster that's caused that with a clear misrepresentation of history who then followed it up with an post riddled with Islamophobic rhetoric.
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
This is all so convenient. The chain of events that led up to this was planned and I wouldn't be surprised if it was orchestrated by the Israeli government
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Drizzle said:
fecking hell. Here we go again. The conspiracy is born. We always know who to blame don't we?
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As crazy as this view is, i've heard it around the workplace today. "israel have the iron dome, no rockets should have got the through"

Or "MOSSAD/SHIN BET have a fearsome reputation for being really on the ball, no way they didnt know the attack was coming. They let it happen as a excuse to invade Gaza Strip and clear out the palestinians."

(Making it clear these arent my views. I heard them around work in more than one conversation).
 
Ainu said:
That last bit sounds dangerously close to blaming innocent civilians for the fate they've ended up with. Price to pay for supporting a killer regime? These people have been subjugated, murdered and driven from their land for over 70 years, most of them just want to have some sort of normal life but that isn't given to them by an oppressing nation with wordwide support behind them. Easy to point fingers at them and expect them turn on their own regime when everyone else has either contributed to their fate or stood by and did nothing.
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The reason why your point is not valid (even though for 2 mil people might feel so) is because history does not start where you, or I ,want it to start. The Jews were forced to do a lot of things for a long time, including mass being killed in Europe.

Do you know how many times the Jews were force to flee the Levant under the threat of death? The vast majority of European populations, they went through very bad times, but almost none of them has been forced to move away so completely that they were left without a nation.

For those that want to talk shit about the Jews, then I can contribute to that and more so, with explanations. As in, why were/ are Jews better with money ( a common question), starts with a people that valued learning and being literate while most were illiterate and kept as obedient peasants. The Jews were among the first people that put major emphasis on education that goes a little higher then "holly" texts. It took the Christians a few centuries until they started to value education. Problem was, education led to the contradiction of the texts and then Christianity turned to murder ... story for another time.
 
do.ob said:
I understand people condemning Israel's counterattack in general. But it's happening either way at this point. So I think it's ironic that some people direct their outrage at the fact that they are sharing their battle plan with the enemy to give at least some people the chance to get away from the fighting and not at Hamad, who are reportedly telling people to stay put.
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No, they are not.
 
do.ob said:
I understand people condemning Israel's counterattack in general. But it's happening either way at this point. So I think it's ironic that some people direct their outrage at the fact that they are sharing their battle plan with the enemy to give at least some people the chance to get away from the fighting and not at Hamad, who are reportedly telling people to stay put.
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Only the very fringes are doing so. Most are resigned to the inevitability and necessity of it.

Raoul said:
This appears from the Israeli President (who is largely ceremonial), not the PM. Although I wouldn't be surprised if most Israelis hold similar views given what happened last weekend.
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His brother [Israels ambassador to you] is talking a lot about restraint and proportionality. So it's likely just playing to the domestic audience as president, given the circumstances. Did you listen to the podcast I posted?
 
2m people lives in Gaza, 40% are under the age of 15. That is 800K child being starved to death.
 
maniak said:
The western governments' moral compass is broken. Nothing new, I know, but in the same conflict happening at the same time, it's quite something.

Gunning down civilians in the streets and killing babies? Absolutely barbaric.

Bombing civilians and killing babies by demolishing their homes? Well... you see...
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What should Israel do in response then?
 
after all this and what's likely to happen soon (unfortunately) I don't want to hear about random muslim state deciding how gays should behave in public or something similar as the biggest world problem ever again - and that obviously being the strong enough reason for them not getting to host world cup or any other competition. I'm not even joking.

as long as we have Izrael doing what they do (for years and now) while having their clubs freely compete in european competitions (with their supporters even proudly calling one of those the most racist club in country), as far as I'm concerned, any of those "problematic" states can do whatever they want with football and host any competiton they like.

also, given the way the press are reporting on this and biased takes on certain actions that would be labeled as clear war crimes if Russia was in place of Israel, I don't want to hear another word about North Korea as well. I won't pretend I'm bothered by all this that much, but I have eyes and still functional brain and it's perfectly obvious to me that the west turned out to be complete joke. some get punished for anything, some get free pass for eternity. no thanks.
 
jackal&hyde said:
The reason why your point is not valid (even though for 2 mil people might feel so) is because history does not start where you, or I ,want it to start. The Jews were forced to do a lot of things for a long time, including mass being killed in Europe.

Do you know how many times the Jews were force to flee the Levant under the threat of death? The vast majority of European populations, they went through very bad times, but almost none of them has been forced to move away so completely that they were left without a nation.

For those that want to talk shit about the Jews, then I can contribute to that and more so, with explanations. As in, why were/ are Jews better with money ( a common question), starts with a people that valued learning and being literate while most were illiterate and kept as obedient peasants. The Jews were among the first people that put major emphasis on education that goes a little higher then "holly" texts. It took the Christians a few centuries until they started to value education. Problem was, education led to the contradiction of the texts and then Christianity turned to murder ... story for another time.
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Where to start with this.
 
Bole Top said:
after all this and what's likely to happen soon (unfortunately) I don't want to hear about random muslim state deciding how gays should behave in public or something similar as the biggest world problem ever again - and that obviously being the strong enough reason for them not getting to host world cup or any other competition. I'm not even joking.

as long as we have Izrael doing what they do (for years and now) while having their clubs freely compete in european competitions (with their supporters even proudly calling one of those the most racist club in country), as far as I'm concerned, any of those "problematic" states can do whatever they want with football and host any competiton they like.

also, given the way the press are reporting on this and biased takes on certain actions that would be labeled as clear war crimes if Russia was in place of Israel, I don't want to hear another word about North Korea as well. I won't pretend I'm bothered by all this that much, but I have eyes and still functional brain and it's perfectly obvious to me that the west turned out to be complete joke. some get punished for anything, some get free pass for eternity. no thanks.
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There has been an attack with 1300 dead, they have declared a state of war, they have bombed, they have warned of an evacuation to which Hamas (or Egypt too?), if I have understood correctly, has refused.
What would you do then at this point if you were Israel, wait at the border?
 
mu4c_20le said:
Hamas are openly using human shields. How do you think they should respond to their attacks without committing war crimes?
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Sorry, I'm not jared kushner.

But if the only way to do something is to starve people, bomb children and cut electricity to hospitals, then you should consider if it's worth doing.

My post was about western governments, though. Their availability to accept war crimes is pathetic.
 
jackal&hyde said:
The reason why your point is not valid (even though for 2 mil people might feel so) is because history does not start where you, or I ,want it to start. The Jews were forced to do a lot of things for a long time, including mass being killed in Europe.

Do you know how many times the Jews were force to flee the Levant under the threat of death? The vast majority of European populations, they went through very bad times, but almost none of them has been forced to move away so completely that they were left without a nation.

For those that want to talk shit about the Jews, then I can contribute to that and more so, with explanations. As in, why were/ are Jews better with money ( a common question), starts with a people that valued learning and being literate while most were illiterate and kept as obedient peasants. The Jews were among the first people that put major emphasis on education that goes a little higher then "holly" texts. It took the Christians a few centuries until they started to value education. Problem was, education led to the contradiction of the texts and then Christianity turned to murder ... story for another time.
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Who are you even addressing this to? No one on this thread has attacked the Jews or gone on any anti-semitic tirade, nor have they made reference to any of the anti-semitic stereotypical tropes you're randomly bringing up. Bit of an odd strawman rant you've gone on there.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Hamas are openly using human shields. How do you think they should respond to their attacks without committing war crimes?
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How do human shields work if they're being bombed from the sky?
 
jackal&hyde said:
With not making an empty post that says nothing but rather trying to address the points. That could be a start.
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I replied to an earlier post of yours and you ignored it. So i'd rather you try to address the points. That could be a start.
 
nickm said:
Spare me.

It was disgusting enough that the poster does not deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Practically the same as accusing a rape victim of planning their own rape, and that's without the side helping of conspiratorial Israelis, and we all know about that trope.

"Post respectfully".
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I don’t believe it was planned (the level of carnage and chaos was way too much and probably terminal to the Netanyahu administration’s reputation). But I do believe the Russian state blew up apartment buildings in Russia 20+ years ago to justify a war of annihilation in Chechnya and a crackdown on civil rights in Russia proper. I also believe Netanyahu inhabits a similar moral sewer to Putin (and is also trying to move Israel towards a more authoritarian system). So, while the original post might be a bit conspiracy theorist, I don’t see why it’s anti-semitic.
 
The Corinthian said:
I replied to an earlier post of yours and you ignored it. So i'd rather you try to address the points. That could be a start.
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You get people, who work propaganda for you. E.g. by spamming online discussions with tweets.
 
The Corinthian said:
I replied to an earlier post of yours and you ignored it. So i'd rather you try to address the points. That could be a start.
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Fair point; I had a lot of posts to respond too and some I did not. Was your valued point and rational point the:

" This post is dogshit. " " The Ancient Egyptians were in Canaan before the Jews. Why shouldn't their modern counterparts be given it using your logic? ".

The point is that if you call someone's opinion dogshit, the expectation is that that person will not actually read anything more. So take it from me, first say what you want to be read and, THEN call it dogshit.
 
jackal&hyde said:
Fair point; I had a lot of posts to respond too and some I did not. Was your valued point and rational point the:

" This post is dogshit. " " The Ancient Egyptians were in Canaan before the Jews. Why shouldn't their modern counterparts be given it using your logic? ".
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Yep - that's the one. What's your response?

do.ob said:
I replied to the wrong post, I meant this one.
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If you feel I'm spamming or contravening the rules of the forum - feel free to report me.
 
*Enter thread*

“Israel has no options but to commit war crimes!”


….ugh.
 
maniak said:
Sorry, I'm not jared kushner.

But if the only way to do something is to starve people, bomb children and cut electricity to hospitals, then you should consider if it's worth doing.

My post was about western governments, though. Their availability to accept war crimes is pathetic.
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Your post was about whataboutism. You were trying to compare Hamas intentionally targeting civilians, killing them and taking them hostage, to the collateral damage from western government bombings. I asked if there was a better way, not asking you to be jared kushner.
 
I’m not particularly well versed in the history of the Israel and Palestine upset.

What I gather is that both sides have committed atrocities. Both are as bad as each other, but this is blurred by international relations and media.

It’s an ugly fecking scene. Senseless loss of life for an argument that won’t be settled, I foresee, within my or my children’s lifetime.

The world is grim.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Your post was about whataboutism. You were trying to compare Hamas intentionally targeting civilians, killing them and taking them hostage, to the collateral damage from western government bombings. I asked if there was a better way, not asking you to be jared kushner.
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I don't think you know what whataboutism is.

I'm talking about events in the same conflict, happening miles from each other and separated by hours. Western governments rightly saw hamas' terrorist attacks for what they were. They should also see what israel is doing for what it is: war crimes.

If you can't see this, your moral compass is broken.
 
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