Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Dobba said:
Israelis have been killed, Palestinians have mysteriously died again.

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But but the mainstream British Media have been down the middle and very fair so far!

It's absolutely gutter reporting and should be called out for what it is.
 
Drizzle said:
Well, firstly the Palestinian population has risen, so the expulsions haven't been working clearly.

Secondly I seem to recall Israel actually pulled out of Gaza in 2005. History isn't working in just one direction.

I know what you're getting at, but it's way too simplistic.
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Have a look at the progressive map of Palestinian territories from 1948 all the way through to today, and you'll see the scale of expulsion at effect.

A cynic would also argue that the Gaza withdrawal was a containment strategy, essentially locking up and isolating millions of Palestinians in their own open air prison, away from Israelis.
 
marktan said:
The only way this ends is when Israel annexes the whole of Gaza and the west bank and either slaughters or kicks out their whole population. Anyone who thinks otherwise has not been watching the last 70 years - this is precisely what has been going on.

The political power they wield - every major western ally dying to show support; almost every Arab nation being silent - is too strong.

Anyone who believes otherwise is ignorant on the issue - blaming Hamas for fighting or blaming religion or blaming the sky is a diversion technique (and one very successfully used by Israel) - in the end Israel was always going to do what it's going to do. Incredibly ironic that people say 'oh hammas is a terrorist organisation bent on destroying israel' when Israel is exactly that to the Palestinians but with better PR. This world has gotten warped. The average layperson in the west eats up that narrative just because it's parroted 24/7 by most of the western media.

I guess the Palestinians should just accept their death / being carried of to some other land and hope the Israelis don't later decide that the puppet led nations of Jordan and Egypt have bits of land that look ripe for conquest. Wouldn't hold my breath given how easy it's been for them over the last 70 years.
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The only reason that can do as they have done with Palestine is because it's not even recognized by many as a country and has no real political strength - contrast that to a militarily weak but politically strong country like Jordan and there's a clear difference. Only this year they were hosting a load of international royalty/politicians for the wedding there. Israel would have zero political support for that.
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
And he'll get away with it. He's not going to even get charged for any war crimes. No accountability whatsoever. They could have stopped them.. with what resources? They created the situation and are now blaming innocent civilians because they were not stop them? Total bullshit. They don't have the army or the funding. This is all so convenient. The chain of events that led up to this was planned and I wouldn't be surprised if it was orchestrated by the Israeli government just so that they can justify what's happening now.
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The Jews were behind it, of course. Disgusting statement.
 
Kaos said:
Have a look at the progressive map of Palestinian territories from 1948 all the way through to today, and you'll see the scale of expulsion at effect.

A cynic would also argue that the Gaza withdrawal was a containment strategy, essentially locking up and isolating millions of Palestinians in their own open air prison, away from Israelis.
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I'm sorry, while the territories are certainly being settled and Palestinian land encroached on, the expulsions just don't add up.

Https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/state-of-palestine-population/

I agree with your Gaza point, clearly the calculus was to contain and isolate to remove the ongoing threat. But again - this is not killing them or expelling them which is what the original post I was replying to was stating.
 
That_Bloke said:
He's not average Joe, ceremonial role or not.
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No one suggested he was. He doesn't make policy either, which is why a distinction should be drawn. Not that he he would disagree with Netanyahu in the present given that most Israelis are on the same page about how to proceed after last weekend.
 
nickm said:
Oh do very much fcuk off. The Jews were behind it, of course. Disgusting statement.
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I’m not commenting on the original post, but as always “Israel’s government” and “the Jews” are not interchangeable synonyms. You need to be able to criticize Israel without being called anti-semitic. In fact many US based Jews are some of Israel’s biggest critics.
 
Usually when people say it's "difficult" they usually mean "I don't know the facts". The situation here is actually difficult I think because there is no way this ends without major loss of civilian life.

I'm going to say that the threat of attack from HAMAS has to end and the IDF need to do it. I will also say that this will come at a big, big cost of civilian life and this does not have to be so. If HAMAS wants to protect the innocent, they will get them out to the south. If they do not, then they are using them as human shield or, they are part of the movement.

There is going to be major death happening and a huge influx of points about the evil of Israel coming from this. What is important to remember is this:
-any and all countries that want to take on Palestinians have the chance to do so, but none are (the rich muslim countries).
-Israel does not need to respond to an attack; it needs to end the threat.
-the innocent Palestinians that will die, will die because they have a "government" that does not care about them, more then that, a terrorist group that wants them to die so they can point the finger.
 
Mike Smalling said:
I’m not commenting on the original post, but as always “Israel’s government” and “the Jews” are not interchangeable synonyms. You need to be able to criticize Israel without being called anti-semitic. In fact many US based Jews are some of Israel’s biggest critics.
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Many of Israel's based Jews are by far the biggest critics of Israel.
 
Mike Smalling said:
I’m not commenting on the original post, but as always “Israel’s government” and “the Jews” are not interchangeable synonyms. You need to be able to criticize Israel without being called anti-semitic. In fact many US based Jews are some of Israel’s biggest critics.
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Spare me.

It was disgusting enough that the poster does not deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Practically the same as accusing a rape victim of planning their own rape, and that's without the side helping of conspiratorial Israelis, and we all know about that trope.

"Post respectfully".
 
tomaldinho1 said:
The only reason that can do as they have done with Palestine is because it's not even recognized by many as a country and has no real political strength - contrast that to a militarily weak but politically strong country like Jordan and there's a clear difference. Only this year they were hosting a load of international royalty/politicians for the wedding there. Israel would have zero political support for that.
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Has Israel ever not been under attack in one way or another? I know you could say the same the other way around, but it feels like they can do this to Palestine because they are still in an unresolved 75 year long war.
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
This is all so convenient. The chain of events that led up to this was planned and I wouldn't be surprised if it was orchestrated by the Israeli government
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fecking hell. Here we go again. The conspiracy is born. We always know who to blame don't we?
 
Mike Smalling said:
I’m not commenting on the original post, but as always “Israel’s government” and “the Jews” are not interchangeable synonyms. You need to be able to criticize Israel without being called anti-semitic. In fact many US based Jews are some of Israel’s biggest critics.
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Absolutely correct but it's no applicable in what she implied.
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
No you're disgusting for supporting the carnage. I chose my words wisely. You should try doing the same.
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You don't chose anything wisely. What you implied is disgusting. That and saying that @nickm supports the carnage is another poor post. I've read nothing from him implying that. I suggest you calm down.
 
Sly said:
Absolutely correct but it's no applicable in what she implied.
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What she said also doesn't apply to jews, she talked about the government. It's nasty to alter someone's point in that way even if you don't agree with it.
 
jackal&hyde said:
Usually when people say it's "difficult" they usually mean "I don't know the facts". The situation here is actually difficult I think because there is no way this ends without major loss of civilian life.

I'm going to say that the threat of attack from HAMAS has to end and the IDF need to do it. I will also say that this will come at a big, big cost of civilian life and this does not have to be so. If HAMAS wants to protect the innocent, they will get them out to the south. If they do not, then they are using them as human shield or, they are part of the movement.

There is going to be major death happening and a huge influx of points about the evil of Israel coming from this. What is important to remember is this:
-any and all countries that want to take on Palestinians have the chance to do so, but none are (the rich muslim countries).
-Israel does not need to respond to an attack; it needs to end the threat.
-the innocent Palestinians that will die, will die because they have a "government" that does not care about them, more then that, a terrorist group that wants them to die so they can point the finger.

All in all, this is a case of a population being taken hostage by a terrorist group for decades and brain washed to think that killing and murder is the only way. They will have the same faith as the zillions of german natzi members along with those that were not. It's major shi_t, but it's the price to pay for supporting a killer regime.
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Given their consistent use of civilians as human shields, they will want civilians to remain in place throughout the Gaza strip, and indeed Hamas have apparently pushed out a statement this morning calling for all civilians to remain in place (chalking up the Israeli call to move south as psychological warfare etc).

But you're fundamentally correct, this was all inevitable when Hamas attacked Israel, and was likely a well planned operation to goad the Israelis into attacking Gaza, then using the ensuring spectacle of death and destruction to ratchet up international pressure for negotiations. The miscalculation was that they probably didn't presume it would also end Hamas in Gaza, which will ostensibly be the end of Hamas as a player in Palestinian affairs.
 
Kaos said:
War criminal advocating for war crimes shocker.

A million dead Iraqis did nothing to pain his conscience, whats a couple thousand more dead Palestinians?
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outside ireland, every meaningful political faction of every one of these countries wants a genocide, and other countries don't care either way.
 
Raoul said:
This appears from the Israeli President (who is largely ceremonial), not the PM. Although I wouldn't be surprised if most Israelis hold similar views given what happened last weekend.
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What an irrelevant point to make, Raoul. The President saying this is dangerous rhetoric and most likely a shared view in the Knesset.
 
Simbo said:
Has Israel ever not been under attack in one way or another? I know you could say the same the other way around, but it feels like they can do this to Palestine because they are still in an unresolved 75 year long war.
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I guess a good example is Lebanon, Israel sieged Beirut in 82 and when they attacked Reagan himself kicked off and there was even talk of the US sanctioning Israel as deterrence.
 
JPRouve said:
What she said also doesn't apply to jews, she talked about the government. It's nasty to alter someone's point in that way even if you don't agree with it.
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Doesn't apply to the government either unless you have any proof. Their government is disgusting and what they are doing with the siege and treatment of palestinian people for decades now is unforgivable but it was Hamas who did slaughtering, it was not any Israeli government conspiracy. That's what she was clearly implying.
 
The Corinthian said:
What an irrelevant point to make, Raoul. The President saying this is dangerous rhetoric and most likely a shared view in the Knesset.
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Its quite relevant given that you misrepresented who was doing the talking. And the correct term would he straight from the horse's mouth.
 
Drizzle said:
To those that have watched the last 70 years, this is simply incorrect. They're not going to slaughter 2 million people. And Egypt is not going to take them. Nothing in the last 70 years suggests otherwise.

Palestinians have a right to defend themselves of course. Albeit without massacring civilians. Genuinely don't think most Israelis have any interest whatsoever in expanding into Egypt or Jordan. Israeli posters here can maybe give a more accurate response on this.
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so i when i mentioned allowing them to be armed, why did some of you get so triggered?

its all about the land, has always been about the land. were seeing it happen in front the worlds eyes, and our patsy politicians are going along with it.
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
And he'll get away with it. He's not going to even get charged for any war crimes. No accountability whatsoever. They could have stopped them.. with what resources? They created the situation and are now blaming innocent civilians because they were not stop them? Total bullshit. They don't have the army or the funding. This is all so convenient. The chain of events that led up to this was planned and I wouldn't be surprised if it was orchestrated by the Israeli government just so that they can justify what's happening now.
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100% agree - no one holds them to account, and so they act with impunity. The one nation who could enforce change and peace for both sides in the US. And I wonder what they have to say...
berbatrick said:
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...ah.
 
Sly said:
Let's hope not but I'm fearful for the rest of the day, specially at night.
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Nah, just watch. This is stuff of dreams for the lunatics. We'll feel the consequences of what these arseholes did last Satuday in the years to come.

Raoul said:
No one suggested he was. He doesn't make policy either, which is why a distinction should be drawn. Not that he he would disagree with Netanyahu in the present given that most Israelis are on the same page about how to proceed after last weekend.
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I agree with you on that but in my opinion it's a bit concerning that high level representatives of a democratic government allow themselves such a discourse and even worse, that no one bats an eye. I'd expect a bit more nuance and reserve from the President of Israel.
 
Raoul said:
Its quite relevant given that you misrepresented who was doing the talking. And the correct term would he straight from the horse's mouth.
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Where?

The Corinthian said:


And there you have it - straight from the dog’s mouth. Israeli Presiden holds all of Gazan Palestinians responsible. At least some of you can stop pretending that they don’t.
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Iker Quesadillas said:
I think there is a big difference between struggling to sympathize and being blinded by hate.

Pretty much everyone struggles to sympathize in certain contexts, it's normal.
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There’s absolutely no difference. If you struggle to sympathise with civilians being killed at a festival, regardless whether they’re
Israeli or Palestinian then something is wrong with you.
 
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