Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

[MDFC Manager]

Apologies if this has been posted


Nobody is gonna ask any Israelis to condemn these murders though

Terrorist animals. But also a regular occurrence anyway

 

[Zen86]

Most of the coverage I’m seeing over the last few days is smoke clouds over Gaza and blown up buildings. They’re hardly masking what is going on.

 

[11101]

Frankly, I'm a bit puzzled with the degree to which the West is taking the side of Israel in this. Not the U.S., but the EU countries. After the initial condemnation, I would have expected to see some more balance, but it seems to be only left-wing politicans not in power, as well as humanitarian organizations that are currently urging constraint.

I'm not. Outside left wing echo chambers it looks like a country retaliating against an attack from a territory governed by terrorists. There havent been many polls yet but those that have been done show galvanising support for Israel...at least for now. Don't kid yourself for a second that if somebody did the same in Europe or the US the response wouldn't be the same.

 

[adexkola]

Frankly, I'm a bit puzzled with the degree to which the West is taking the side of Israel in this. Not the U.S., but the EU countries. After the initial condemnation, I would have expected to see some more balance, but it seems to be only left-wing politicans not in power, as well as humanitarian organizations that are currently urging constraint.

Why? The vast majority of EU nations don't recognize Palestine.

Apologies if this has been posted


Nobody is gonna ask any Israelis to condemn these murders though

 

[RedDevil@84]

Most of the coverage I’m seeing over the last few days is smoke clouds over Gaza and blown up buildings. They’re hardly masking what is going on.

Why should they mask anything? It is not like Israel will be sanctioned if they do war crimes.

 

[VorZakone]

I'm not. Outside left wing echo chambers it looks like a country retaliating against an attack from a territory governed by terrorists. There havent been many polls yet but those that have been done show galvanising support for Israel...at least for now. Don't kid yourself for a second that if somebody did the same in Europe or the US the response wouldn't be the same.

What was France' response to Bataclan?

 

[reelworld]

Got challenge on war crimes, pull out the anti-semitic cards. Like fecking clockwork

Also the balls of that reporter to ask those questions.

 

[JPRouve]

What was France' response to Bataclan?

War on Isis.

 

[Zen86]

Why should they mask anything? It is not like Israel will be sanctioned if they do war crimes.

The suggestion that coverage is one-sided.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Why? Thousands of militants invaded an allied nation, commited atrocities, killed hundreds and kidnapped dozens. They know what they would be expected to do if it happened to their nations and they wouldn't want to hear any 'you brought it on yourself' talk you see from some people.

The call for constraint is how people normally talk about these instances but they know that overwhelming force will be used to take out Hamas this time.

I'm not. Outside left wing echo chambers it looks like a country retaliating against an attack from a territory governed by terrorists. There havent been many polls yet but those that have been done show galvanising support for Israel...at least for now. Don't kid yourself for a second that if somebody did the same in Europe or the US the response wouldn't be the same.

Why? The vast majority of EU nations don't recognize Palestine.

Maybe I phrased it poorly. I'm not surprised the EU is broadly taking the side of Israel, but I am a bit surprised that after a few days of blatant war crimes from Israel, we haven't see more central EU politicians urging just a little bit of constraint - purely from a humanitarian angle. The Palestinians are largely victims of Hamas as well. It could also be that I'm just naive.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's been morbidly fascinating seeing the western media so quick to major on the story despite the fact there was so little verification, followed by the retractions. It's exposed the level of misinformation out there and how readily the west will accept stories demonising the muslim side.

The insane thing for me is that Hamas has clearly admitted loads of truly horrific atrocities, so why make up such an emotive crime if it didn't happen? I guess you could argue it's worked and it's deflected from some of Israel's own atrocities committed. War propaganda is as old as mankind but with social media now it's another level.

Wading through the madness it seems like the tail wagging the dog. This all seems to stem from one (unreliable) witness account which then triggered a social media obsession with whether or not it might be true. Then the mainstream media get involved (because clicks) and it ends up with a statement from the POTUS and photos of dead babies on the Israeli president’s twitter feed. We’re through the looking glass.

 

[do.ob]

The suggestion that coverage is one-sided.

What do you expect. Israel got hit by one of the biggest terrorist attacks in modern history and now they are waging war on the attackers. This current flare up of the conflict is actually pretty one sided.
The question why there's so much hate on both sides is a lot more nuanced, but that will take a back seat until the shock wears off.

 

[2cents]

What was France' response to Bataclan?

France was a member of the anti-ISIS coalition that laid waste to massive sections of the cities of Mosul and Raqqa.

 

[Drizzle]

Maybe I phrased it poorly. I'm not surprised the EU is broadly taking the side of Israel, but I am a bit surprised that after a few days of blatant war crimes from Israel, we haven't see more central EU politicians urging just a little bit of constraint - purely from a humanitarian angle. The Palestinians are largely victims of Hamas as well. It could also be that I'm just naive.

I think you're right. It's a strategic mistake by the west to agree to this level of response. Maybe they know that Israel's rage would not be stopped anyway but are trying to calm things down and get exit strategies sorted behind the scenes. I do hope so anyway.

 

[VorZakone]

 

[VorZakone]

 

[TheReligion]

Maybe I phrased it poorly. I'm not surprised the EU is broadly taking the side of Israel, but I am a bit surprised that after a few days of blatant war crimes from Israel, we haven't see more central EU politicians urging just a little bit of constraint - purely from a humanitarian angle. The Palestinians are largely victims of Hamas as well. It could also be that I'm just naive.

I have to say I’m surprised that some seem to see the tactics being used by Israel as acceptable. They aren’t.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Got challenge on war crimes, pull out the anti-semitic cards. Like fecking clockwork

Also the balls of that reporter to ask those questions.

What a fecking idiot. The politician, not the journalist.

 

[do.ob]

I think you're right. It's a strategic mistake by the west to agree to this level of response. Maybe they know that Israel's rage would not be stopped anyway but are trying to calm things down and get exit strategies sorted behind the scenes. I do hope so anyway.

Strategy is when you remove your own emotions from your considerations, I don't think many people are actually thinking through the really cynical scenarios. They think Israel (and I guess by extension the West) will pay for the death and destruction they seem about to cause.. Somewhere.. Somehow.. Down the line.. I haven't seen many logical reasons why that would actually be the case.

 

[owlo]

So apparently Israel has now dropped 6,000 bombs on Gaza from Saturday until now. 4,000 tons of explosives on the most densely populated place on earth.

Do you realise how ridiculous and factually incorrect this comment is? You don't even need to check a news article to see that, just think about it for about 2 seconds.

 

[VorZakone]

 

[owlo]

I think you're right. It's a strategic mistake by the west to agree to this level of response. Maybe they know that Israel's rage would not be stopped anyway but are trying to calm things down and get exit strategies sorted behind the scenes. I do hope so anyway.

Israel were doing it anyway, whatever 'the west' said. They had a binary choice; condemn or support them in the action. They chose support, but the obvious reasons they mentioned.

 

[Superden]

From the guardian. The Israeli army are evil.

Two Palestinian rights groups have released a statement accusing Israel of killing 24-year-old Attiya Fathi Al-Nabaheen, along with 12 members of his family, in a “targeted airstrike”.

Adalah, a Palestinian-run human rights group focusing on legal issues, and the Gaza-based Al Mezan Center for Human Rights said they were previously pursuing a lengthy legal battle on his behalf against the Israeli state for shooting him in 2014 – an incident that left him paralysed from the neck down.

“At approximately 11.30 a.m on Sunday, 8 October 2023, Israeli warplanes targeted–without prior warning – the four-storey house of the Al-Nabaheen family, situated to the east of the Al-Bureij refugee camp, in Gaza’s Middle Area District,” the statement said.

“The attack also resulted in the complete destruction of the Al-Nabaheen family’s house. According to Tamir Al-Nabaheen, Attiya’s brother, who survived the targeted airstrike, the attack occurred while his children were playing with their cousins at the building’s entrance. Tragically, Tamir’s three children, as well as their cousins, were killed in the attack.”

The statement added: “Attiya Fathi Al-Nabaheen was the victim of two grave war crimes perpetrated by Israeli forces.”

 

[Zen86]

What do you expect. Israel got hit by one of the biggest terrorist attacks in modern history and now they are waging war on the attackers. This current flare up of the conflict is actually pretty one sided.
The question why there's so much hate on both sides is a lot more nuanced, but that will take a back seat until the shock wears off.

I don’t expect anything, it’s just a simple observation since there’s the usual suggestion of media bias and hiding Israeli actions. Oddly combative replies.

 

[11101]

What was France' response to Bataclan?

Launched their largest bombing campaign on ISIL and that organisation now barely exists in the Middle East.

 

[The Corinthian]

From the guardian. The Israeli army are evil.

Two Palestinian rights groups have released a statement accusing Israel of killing 24-year-old Attiya Fathi Al-Nabaheen, along with 12 members of his family, in a “targeted airstrike”.

Adalah, a Palestinian-run human rights group focusing on legal issues, and the Gaza-based Al Mezan Center for Human Rights said they were previously pursuing a lengthy legal battle on his behalf against the Israeli state for shooting him in 2014 – an incident that left him paralysed from the neck down.

“At approximately 11.30 a.m on Sunday, 8 October 2023, Israeli warplanes targeted–without prior warning – the four-storey house of the Al-Nabaheen family, situated to the east of the Al-Bureij refugee camp, in Gaza’s Middle Area District,” the statement said.

“The attack also resulted in the complete destruction of the Al-Nabaheen family’s house. According to Tamir Al-Nabaheen, Attiya’s brother, who survived the targeted airstrike, the attack occurred while his children were playing with their cousins at the building’s entrance. Tragically, Tamir’s three children, as well as their cousins, were killed in the attack.”

The statement added: “Attiya Fathi Al-Nabaheen was the victim of two grave war crimes perpetrated by Israeli forces.”

Par for the course with Israel. They act with impunity.

No one will hold them to account.

 

[TheReligion]

I'm not. Outside left wing echo chambers it looks like a country retaliating against an attack from a territory governed by terrorists. There havent been many polls yet but those that have been done show galvanising support for Israel...at least for now. Don't kid yourself for a second that if somebody did the same in Europe or the US the response wouldn't be the same.

I mean cutting off food, water and power to Gaza when people can’t leave? Really?

 

[Superden]

Par for the course with Israel. They act with impunity.

No one will hold them to account.

Their supporters, on this forum should be ashamed.

 

[dinostar77]

Frankly, I'm a bit puzzled with the degree to which the West is taking the side of Israel in this. Not the U.S., but the EU countries. After the initial condemnation, I would have expected to see some more balance, but it seems to be only left-wing politicans not in power, as well as humanitarian organizations that are currently urging constraint.

Apparently some within the actual EU organisation are unhappy with the actual EU's stance on all this, but will only speak on condition of annoyminity. As they are afraid of being labelled anti-semetic or losing their jobs. Politics is a complex beast.

Israeli flags adorn EU buildings after Hamas attacks. Is the bloc united?
An EU official says the bloc’s response to the Israel-Hamas war is a sign of hypocrisy, as divisions emerge.

"...One EU official, who requested anonymity, told Al Jazeera: “It makes me feel like I’m working for an organisation that is endorsing apartheid..."

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...ldings-after-hamas-attacks-is-the-bloc-united

 

[Drizzle]

Their supporters, on this forum should be ashamed.

Who's supporting them exactly?

In fact, looking at your comments on this situation, you've shown zero concern for the Israelis slaughtered, in fact your first comment on this awful situation was this:

Very hard to be sympathetic for people living in illegal settlements around Gaza, whos very presence leads to the brutalising of the people who were there before and live in Gaza.

So don't lecture others, most of whom are distraught by the suffering on both sides.

 

[do.ob]

I don’t expect anything, it’s just a simple observation since there’s the usual suggestion of media bias and hiding Israeli actions. Oddly combative replies.

I'm just surprised that people dont seem to be aware how much of a bubble the discussion on here is. When in the real (Western) world this event has actually united politicians from far left to far right in their response like almost no issue these days can.

 

[Dobba]

With the mask off, he can't even hide his glee.



Video was on Sky News' own feed until it miraculously disappeared.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Do you realise how ridiculous and factually incorrect this comment is? You don't even need to check a news article to see that, just think about it for about 2 seconds.

Do you think I made it up? Here's the Associated Press reporting those numbers. And the kicker is that is comes from a statement from IDF - Link.

Will that suffice?

 

[Sweet Square]

 

[Sly]

Do you think I made it up? Here's the Associated Press reporting those numbers. And the kicker is that is comes from a statement from IDF - Link.

Will that suffice? Moron.

I suggest you refrain from insulting people and just make your point. If everyone takes your approach thread will be closed. Insults don't help your cause.

 

[berbatrick]

I'm just surprised that people dont seem to be aware how much of a bubble the discussion on here is. When in the real (Western) world this event has actually united politicians from far left to far right in their response like almost no issue these days can.

The centre-left is certainly making sure nothing breaks that unity, impressive!



e - tried not get get mad, but this one got me.
i don't like standpoint theory, but since everybody loves that in these cases: what we have here is a german telling a jewish man, with family that died in the nazi holocaust, that she can't meet with him because his statement mentions civilians in gaza. and she is getting almost unanimous support. what a sorry excuse for a political climate. what an amazing way to transfer collective guilt to a different population.

e again - @hasanejaz88 iirc you're in germany - from the replies to here, it seems that there is no acknowledgement/knowledge of apartheid or the status of gaza in germany. is that correct?

 

[hasanejaz88]

With the mask off, he can't even hide his glee.



Video was on Sky News' own feed until it miraculously disappeared.

That journalist has got big balls, too bad they're going to be cut off.

 

[Pintu]

Maybe I phrased it poorly. I'm not surprised the EU is broadly taking the side of Israel, but I am a bit surprised that after a few days of blatant war crimes from Israel, we haven't see more central EU politicians urging just a little bit of constraint - purely from a humanitarian angle. The Palestinians are largely victims of Hamas as well. It could also be that I'm just naive.

I am astonished. On most European platforms you get called antisemite and Israel hater as soon as you mention peace or ask that Israel follow the rule

The EU can’t do anything… If Israel wants to kill hundred of thousands of Palestinian they will do so, and the European elite will both hide it and find excuses for it… Don’t forget our governments are the ones preventing the ICC from investigating suspected Palestinian/Israeli war crimes…

This the freedom we gave ourselves when we participated in other atrocities under the disguise of “war on terror”. We extended this to our Saudi friends in their slaughter on Yemen… we didn’t do anything substantial about Assad (backed by Iran) committing same atrocities in Aleppo… Most in Europe never heard of the massacres in Aleppo or Yemen.

Israel is an important ally, why wouldn’t we grant them the same privilege? But I’m afraid this particular Israeli government will take it a bit too far... And the civil population in Gaza do have some strong media allies (probably the immense majority of Arab world and an important part of the “global south”). This slaughter can’t be hidden entirely. Our leaders will have to work very hard (day and night) to excuse the ongoing massacres of Palestinian children and fabricate consent for it….

 

[owlo]

Do you think I made it up? Here's the Associated Press reporting those numbers. And the kicker is that is comes from a statement from IDF - Link.

Will that suffice? Moron.

4000 short tons of explosives from 6000 munitions would amount to 907~kg per warhead. 1. Israel don't have them 2. If they had dropped that many 900kg bombs on Gaza, you'd just see miles of craters.

It literally says 6000 bombs, nothing about explosive weights. You just made that part up for fun?

And lay off the personal insults. I've every right to point out dumb assertions.

 

[The Corinthian]