Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Colombian president:

“The only way for Palestinian children to sleep in peace is for Israeli children to sleep in peace.


The only way for Israeli children to sleep in peace is for Palestinian children to sleep in peace.

War will never achieve this, it can only be achieved by a peace agreement that respects international legality and the right of the two peoples to exist free.

These photos are of Palestinian children murdered by the illegal occupation of their territory.”

 
@Pintu
So I take it you just completely ignored my post and don’t mind that you were fabricating lies about me. I must say that’s disappointing.
 
calodo2003 said:
It's a relevant question, in fact, it's a softball question. It's basically teed up for someone to condemn what just happened & to ascribe morality to themselves. It puts a demarcation line between the Hamas terrorists & that governmental official. It's a fecking lay up, who wouldn't want to disassociate from the barbarity that went on a couple of days ago? Why is it so hard to denounce?
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It blows my mind how some people, including some on here, can't see the difference between civilian casualties of war on the one hand, and someone executing civilians on the other
 
Barak Ravid was just on US tv saying he has senior Israeli sources suggesting the campaign will last at least three months.
 
Raoul said:
Barak Ravid was just on US tv saying he has senior Israeli sources suggesting the campaign will last at least three months.
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Makes sense if the end goal is to achieve Netanyahu's recent Israel map.

Though I guess that's always been the end goal
 
MDFC Manager said:
Makes sense if the end goal is to achieve Netanyahu's recent Israel map.

Though I guess that's always been the end goal
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Even if it isnt, a terrorist attack on that scale was always going to lead to a huge reaction. Regardless of the eventual goal anyone has in mind. If global circumstances were different I wouldn't even be surprised to see the US go after Iran with more than just samctions. But (I guess) thankfully now is not the time where anyone wants to open up that can of worms.
 
do.ob said:
Even if it isnt, a terrorist attack on that scale was always going to lead to a huge reaction. Regardless of the eventual goal anyone has in mind. If global circumstances were different I wouldn't even be surprised to see the US go after Iran with more than just samctions. But (I guess) thankfully now is not the time where anyone wants to open up that can of worms.
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Seems like you, and many others, are justifying the brutal murder of civilians in Gaza.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Seems like you, and many others, are justifying the brutal murder of civilians in Gaza.
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Israeli military action is justified, that much is obvious. To anyone. Including the people who brought it about with their terrorism.
Untangling what is tragic, but "normal" collateral damage and what isn't is another question. I don't have to guess too hard to say there will be both and the debate about what is what will be endless.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Seems like you, and many others, are justifying the brutal murder of civilians in Gaza.
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If Hamas cared about Palestinian children, they wouldn't have done what they did. But even now it is not too late, they can surrender. Unfortunately, the truth is that Hamas does not care about Palestinian children, they are cowards who hide behind children. Hamas, ISIS, and similar terrorist organizations have to be destroyed, that's the only way that the future Palestinian children will have good and productive lives. As long as Hamas governs Gaza, Palestinian children have no future.
 
Eyepopper said:
Wow, it's not like the west to turn a blind eye to the extermination of an ethnic minority is it?

What Hamas did is unjustifiable, they massacred innocent people.. it was a horrible, evil thing to do, regardless of their motivation.

However responding by doing the exact same thing on a much larger scale, and from a position of much more power is also disgusting.

Israel has a choice in terms of their response, and, right now it seems that response is directed at the Palestinians rather than Hamas...

From the Wests point of view, that might be 2m people who need to be sacrificed to put this, decades long issue to bed.

It's depressing as feck.

My heart goes out to the innocent Israelis who lost loved ones in Hamas' disgusting attack and to the innocent Palestinians sat in Gaza awaiting their inevitable fate.

It's a race to the bottom of humanity, from both sides.
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It’s nothing new though. The US and their alliances ravaged Iraq for oil using the WMD excuse and Afghanistan due to the one act of one terror outfit. What is evil is decided by the narrative setter.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Seems like you, and many others, are justifying the brutal murder of civilians in Gaza.
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There’s no justifying it, only understanding it. This is a half baked reaction based on anger humiliation and revenge. The casualty rate for air strikes is astronomically high and show a lack of intel (the us killed 3000 civs in 3 months of early air strikes, including from heavy bombers), Israel are killing at a 10x or higher rate, even if you assume half the casualties are combatants.

It’s brutal, but the worst is yet to come. You guys are going to get your laughs when the army roll into Gaza and get massacred. Then the artillery will start as public opinion hardens further and Israel become baby Russia….

The US or somebody needs to get control of this and negotiate a ceasefire and hostage release. Because this government is unhinged. Understandable yes, but never forgiveable
 
NotThatSoph said:
Israel's immediate response was a very clear-cut war crime: the blockade of Gaza. Then, they started more or less indiscriminate bombing, it's not going to be long until more Palestinian civilians have died from the response than Israeli civilians did.

No Israeli is ever going to be asked to condemn these actions to start an interview. Should they?
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It’s just siege doctrine of the 21st century. They use the ancient methods in a sort of reverse siege. The problems with it are endless in this situation though. Verdin, Stalingrad, grozny, Mariupol, bakhmut.…. So far they aren’t being particularly egregious but it will get worse as you can see in the pics from the last 3.

Yes. Every Israeli should have to condemn it. It’s a dumb as feck idea that’s just gonna end in death.
 
frostbite said:
If Hamas cared about Palestinian children, they wouldn't have done what they did. But even now it is not too late, they can surrender. Unfortunately, the truth is that Hamas does not care about Palestinian children, they are cowards who hide behind children. Hamas, ISIS, and similar terrorist organizations have to be destroyed, that's the only way that the future Palestinian children will have good and productive lives. As long as Hamas governs Gaza, Palestinian children have no future.
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Do you really think they have a future now under the occupation?
 
the_cliff said:
This is how you are ignorant. The same Palestinian Representer you speak of is part of the Palestinian Authority based in Palestinian West Bank who has continously tried with peaceful talks to a 2 state solution. They recognise Israel, unfortunately it's Israel that doesn't recognise them and continue to burn down their homes, kidnap and torture their people and annex their land for the last 10-15 years. The PA is part of the West Bank and have nothing to do with Hamas that are on the other side of Israel in Gaza. Just 2 weeks ago the Israeli prime minister showed a picture of the 'New Middle East' which shows the map of the middle East with Gaza and West Bank as Israel with no Palestinian land left. What Hamas did was wrong but blaming them for the breakdown in 'peace talks' is ridiculous and since Hamas has nothing to do with the West Bank and the PA, he has every right to find a common ground between his people of the West Bank and Israel.

Before you comment you should at least know the geography of the area and a historical background of the players involved and not claim to be an expert after watching a 10 minute BBC news report.
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excellent post
 
Some people on this thread won't be happy until the entire middle east is Judenrein
 
do.ob said:
Israeli military action is justified, that much is obvious. To anyone. Including the people who brought it about with their terrorism.
Untangling what is tragic, but "normal" collateral damage and what isn't is another question. I don't have to guess too hard to say there will be both and the debate about what is what will be endless.
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So if you think Israel military action, which is targeting civilian buildings, is justified because they were attacked but don't feel Palestinians were justified after all the attacks and deaths they have faced for decades? Pretty one sided argument.

@owlo I wasn't mentioning you in my post. You see the senselessness in both sides, it's just for those who are silent on Israeli crimes but will always jump on Palestinians retaliating.
 
Hamas obviously don’t really care about Palestinians. Nothing in their actions suggest they’re fighting for their people or to make a point. Just indiscriminate murder and torture of civilians, celebrated on camera for the most part. Nothing but bloodlust, all seemingly designed to provoke and enrage Isreal as much as possible. And now thousands more will die as Isreal react, and another generation will be radicalised if they aren’t already.
 
Zen86 said:
Hamas obviously don’t really care about Palestinians. Nothing in their actions suggest they’re fighting for their people or to make a point. Just indiscriminate murder and torture of civilians, celebrated on camera for the most part. Nothing but bloodlust, all seemingly designed to provoke and enrage Isreal as much as possible. And now thousands more will die as Isreal react, and another generation will be radicalised if they aren’t already.
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This story is getting old.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
So if you think Israel military action, which is targeting civilian buildings, is justified because they were attacked but don't feel Palestinians were justified after all the attacks and deaths they have faced for decades? Pretty one sided argument.

@owlo I wasn't mentioning you in my post. You see the senselessness in both sides, it's just for those who are silent on Israeli crimes but will always jump on Palestinians retaliating.
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I'm not sure what happened can really be described as retaliation.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
So if you think Israel military action, which is targeting civilian buildings, is justified because they were attacked but don't feel Palestinians were justified after all the attacks and deaths they have faced for decades? Pretty one sided argument.

@owlo I wasn't mentioning you in my post. You see the senselessness in both sides, it's just for those who are silent on Israeli crimes but will always jump on Palestinians retaliating.
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I don't think Islamist terrorism is justified, we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one.
 
That_Bloke said:
This story is getting old.
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Is there a better one? I've yet to see the 'strategy' of Hamas here, outside of what has been posted.

There is sympathy, understanding and compassion of the position that Palestinians are in. That in such a situation, many people would feel like lashing out is the only option. But giving into that urge is not a strategy.

There is no world where Hamas' terror attacks would improve the lives of the people it represents in my opinion. No outcome where the children and innocents who in theory Hamas is there to 'help' benefit. Hamas carried out these attacks, and it is the innocents who will suffer.

Find me a country on Earth that would turn a blind eye to 1,000 civilians being killed in a planned, deliberate terrorist attack by its neighbour and whose response will be talks.

The situation in Palestine is deplorable, and as a world community more should be done. But. This week is about the action of Hamas. History does not absolve such an idiotic, selfish and disgusting act.
 
Raoul said:
Here are a few.

https://www.theatlantic.com/interna.../kidnappings-israel-hamas-photographs/675593/

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/g...iends-at-rave-massacre-4OQOewv0ezTxkKPOCxVzTV

https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2023/10/09/6523d6da46163f3e078b457f.html
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Both seem to link to the times of isreal which states there is a video of a women with blood on her shorts and the other one a dead soldier in a truck. Not that there has been mass cases of sexual assault.
 
Beachryan said:
Is there a better one? I've yet to see the 'strategy' of Hamas here, outside of what has been posted.

There is sympathy, understanding and compassion of the position that Palestinians are in. That in such a situation, many people would feel like lashing out is the only option. But giving into that urge is not a strategy.

There is no world where Hamas' terror attacks would improve the lives of the people it represents in my opinion. No outcome where the children and innocents who in theory Hamas is there to 'help' benefit. Hamas carried out these attacks, and it is the innocents who will suffer.

Find me a country on Earth that would turn a blind eye to 1,000 civilians being killed in a planned, deliberate terrorist attack by its neighbour and whose response will be talks.

The situation in Palestine is deplorable, and as a world community more should be done. But. This week is about the action of Hamas. History does not absolve such an idiotic, selfish and disgusting act.
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Exactly. Strange that some don't seem to acknowledge this.
 
adexkola said:
:lol:

This is what I'm saying @calodo2003. This guy is a representative of the PLO at the UN. He just lost relatives including young ones (who are civilians) in Gaza to Israeli strikes.

However, the journalist is more interested in him condemning the violence against Israelis, and condemning potential threats of hostage execution, skipping over the ongoing fecking bombing of Palestinian citizens :lol:

You can't argue with a straight face that there is any merit to such forms of questions unless to you the Palestinians are an afterthought and this is why (and he agrees, even though he answered) the questions are so ridiculous and insulting
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Yeah, same interview format every time.

Levi1 said:
It blows my mind how some people, including some on here, can't see the difference between civilian casualties of war on the one hand, and someone executing civilians on the other
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The difference is technology
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Both seem to link to the times of isreal which states there is a video of a women with blood on her shorts and the other one a dead soldier in a truck. Not that there has been mass cases of sexual assault.
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Did you even read the links?

One video shows a woman who appears to have been beaten, and who seems to be bleeding into her shorts, being forced out of a Jeep in Gaza. The other video shows a woman, later identified by her family as 22-year-old Shani Louk, stripped down to her underwear and lying face down in a truck, her legs twisted at unnatural angles. Hamas gunmen sit on her body, and bystanders spit on it. According to The Washington Post, Louk was kidnapped at a music festival where Hamas killed at least 260 people. Tablet magazine reports that many of the women executed at the festival were raped “next to their friends’ bodies, dead bodies” before being killed. Some of those who survived were kidnapped and seen “paraded through the city’s streets” in Gaza by their captors, “blood gushing from between their legs,” Tablet reported.
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Dunno why you need this all spoonfed anyway. It’s easy to find.
 
Hamas are arseholes. Israel has been an arsehole for decades. Two arseholes behaving like arseholes for the world to see.

If ever a Western intervention was required, this is it. fecking appalling behaviour on both sides.
 
Beachryan said:
Is there a better one? I've yet to see the 'strategy' of Hamas here, outside of what has been posted.

There is sympathy, understanding and compassion of the position that Palestinians are in. That in such a situation, many people would feel like lashing out is the only option. But giving into that urge is not a strategy.

There is no world where Hamas' terror attacks would improve the lives of the people it represents in my opinion. No outcome where the children and innocents who in theory Hamas is there to 'help' benefit. Hamas carried out these attacks, and it is the innocents who will suffer.

Find me a country on Earth that would turn a blind eye to 1,000 civilians being killed in a planned, deliberate terrorist attack by its neighbour and whose response will be talks.

The situation in Palestine is deplorable, and as a world community more should be done. But. This week is about the action of Hamas. History does not absolve such an idiotic, selfish and disgusting act.
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Yeah I think that while Palestinians maintain a peaceful resistance a lot of people have a great deal of sympathy and call for talks to resume for a 2 state solution. However, when events like this happen it's hard not to understand why Israel maintains a hostile attitude towards the process.

Speaking as someone who grew up on Pilger documentaries and thought the Palestinians could do no wrong when I was younger..
 
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