Not to derail the thread but wasn’t it proven it’s kind of a half truth? Hitler did meet Al-Husseini and the chat was basically we want to be your allies and share the same enemies (Jews and English).
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No need to bring Ryan Gosling into this.
I’m on the phone so it’s an absolute nightmare to search, but look up my, neverdie & owlo’s exchange from a few pages back. Owlo is the guy making the claim.
Of course there's connectivity. Do you actually think that the PA rep & Hamas are completely disassociative of one another on the daily? This guy is actually offering this up as fact? That's some mental gymnastics.
Of course there's barbarity committed regularly by the IDF in Gaza. I would love it if journos would challenge Israeli spox hourly.
Why is this barbarity special? Well, it was caught on film live & has engulfed worldwide media cycles for three days & probably will continue to do so for weeks. Incidences like these in Gaza aren't caught on film or have a loud megaphone to the world. That is massively regrettable, but that's how it is. All the more reason to disavow this unprecedented terror strike into Israel.
As for Watts riots & MLK, MLK did denounce the violence...
https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/publications/autobiography-martin-luther-king-jr/chapter-27-watts
But that's somewhat different from what Netanyahu obviously wanted to suggest which is that the Palestinians share blame for the Holocaust.
He did apparently say that, but that's hardly the same as him convincing Hitler to exterminate the jews in the first place. There was no need for that.
Took me a minute...
I would be surprised if the ruling junta of Iran had 6 billion earmarked for internal humanitarian relief over any significant period of time. That just doesn't sound like them.
The CNN article I referenced in a later post gives a good overview on how the process is set up currently.
Amin Al Husseinis power and influence gets overstated time and time again. He had literally zero influence on Hitler and zero influence on Nazi policy. We forget that Hitler also hated Arabs, referring to them in derogatory terms and just used Al Hussein’s as a tool. There were Palestinian brigades that fought on the side of the Allies in WW2. Furthermore, Al Hussein’s was living in exile (not even in Palestine!) from 1937 to 1945, then was arrested in 1946 and fled to Egypt in 1947.
Sadly agree
Yeah, a total nothingburger. Just didn't bother putting it in there because it's so easy to look up, but I guess that's how these ridiculous things spread.
Agreed. He gets overplayed a lot in these debates.
Now, how many sanctions have ever been levied against Israel, confirmed, multiple times (by independent human rights agencies), as a practitioner of apartheid? None that you can remember or any worth mentioning. All vetoed by the US.
No other country has been condemned in as many resolutions without ever facing a single punative measure (as in Palestinian funding being frozen today as a result of Hamas actions). That is the kind of insanity of the situation you face when you enter this long-running debate.
Most condemnded nation in history, then, post-war, is untouchable by virtue of the nations that espouse a "rules based order". Farce.
I really have to challenge your West-bashing here.
While I sympathize with the spirit of your post, who is speaking up for Uyghurs in China? Who spoke up for Iranian anti-regime protestors? Who spoke up for migrant workers in Qatar? Who criticizes the Taliban for how they treat women? Who provided the most military power to kick Saddam out of Kuweit?
The West isn't faultless but I don't exactly see the rest of the world caring much.
The state of this 'interview'.
feck the BBC and its apologists.
feck the BBC and its apologists.
This is what I'm saying @calodo2003. This guy is a representative of the PLO at the UN. He just lost relatives including young ones (who are civilians) in Gaza to Israeli strikes.
However, the journalist is more interested in him condemning the violence against Israelis, and condemning potential threats of hostage execution, skipping over the ongoing fecking bombing of Palestinian citizens
You can't argue with a straight face that there is any merit to such forms of questions unless to you the Palestinians are an afterthought and this is why (and he agrees, even though he answered) the questions are so ridiculous and insulting
True, but we are the only ones babbling non stop about the rules based order, human rights etc. with conviction while not living up to it at all. We deserve the bashing, not because we're worse than anyone else, but because we continue to live in a pretend fantasy world, while still kind of putting our own interest first.
Everyone knows China doesn't care about the Uyghurs , and they don't even pretend to except when they use our own rhethoric against us. I imagine the infuriating thing for a lot of non-westeners is the constant moral posturing without any follow up or backbone. Except when the US demands we participate and we just fold immediately, that is.
He should have said let's not get into 'whataboutism'.
This is what I'm saying @calodo2003. This guy is a representative of the PLO at the UN. He just lost relatives including young ones (who are civilians) in Gaza to Israeli strikes.
However, the journalist is more interested in him condemning the violence against Israelis, and condemning potential threats of hostage execution, skipping over the ongoing fecking bombing of Palestinian citizens
You can't argue with a straight face that there is any merit to such forms of questions unless to you the Palestinians are an afterthought and this is why (and he agrees, even though he answered) the questions are so ridiculous and insulting
There's a difference between bashing the West for its hypocricy and bashing it for turning a blind eye towards the "extermination of an ethnic minority" as Eyepopper did.
Western air power helped to evacuate a part of the Yazidi community trapped on Mount Sinjar when ISIL was hellbent on slaughtering them. Maybe some more nuance the next time?
Who decided to christen him Bibi anyway (is christen the right word?)? I prefer the Alan Partridge 90s style, the classic: Benjamin Netenyahu. This guy has not earned a childlike pseudonym by any stretch of the imagination.
I'm procrastinating from going on a run so I typed Zomlot (the man being interviewed) into Twitter and I swear every interview this guy has done today (CNN, Sky, BBC, etc) starts with the question: "will you condemn Hamas' actions" and you can tell he's getting frustrated
Ok off to run
We had those people in Montreal yesterday as well. Everything they said and shouted yesterday was crass. What baffles me though is that municipal authorities (and thus the police) gave them the proper authorisation to hold such rally in the context that it happened only 24 hours after the massacre took place. No wonder why a number of politicians have voiced their utter disgust at those pro-Palestine rallies, especially with the visible infiltration of pro-Hamas supporters in those rallies.
Yikes. That adds an interesting perspective, especially when they basically chose Mullahs over Iranian civilians who are fighting against a true tyranny.
And I am very glad we did that, and a whole bunch of other nice things. The problem is just that when you swear by universalist values and act like your whole political world revolve around them, it's simply not enough to occasionally do the 'right' thing as we ourselves have defined it.
There is simply no defence for Israels landgrabbing over the last however many decades within this framework we pretend to live by. They're doing exactly what this rules based order is supposed to prevent, and all we can muster is an occasional stern word! I understand why they do what they do and why we react like we react, but jesus is it pathetic compared to who we are pretending to be.
I just wish we'd get real one way or the other. Maybe then we'll get some praise for the nice things we do, instead of just constantly showing off the discrepancy between our words and actions to the rest of the world. Anyway, I realize it's a borderline irrational rant, and the last word is yours if you want it
Palestinian babies keep dying from unkown causes following Israeli bombs…
He's been opening eyes with the way he communicates the views that many people share, and I commend him from not walking away from all these interviews.
Completely agree with you.And I am very glad we did that, and a whole bunch of other nice things. The problem is just that when you swear by universalist values and act like your whole political world revolve around them, it's simply not enough to occasionally do the 'right' thing as we ourselves have defined it.
There is simply no defence for Israels landgrabbing over the last however many decades within this framework we pretend to live by. They're doing exactly what this rules based order is supposed to prevent, and all we can muster is an occasional stern word! I understand why they do what they do and why we react like we react, but jesus is it pathetic compared to who we are pretending to be.
I just wish we'd get real one way or the other. Maybe then we'll get some praise for the nice things we do, instead of just constantly showing off the discrepancy between our words and actions to the rest of the world. Anyway, I realize it's a borderline irrational rant, and the last word is yours if you want it
I have been reading a very good thread explaining each country's stance and influence in all this. Iran and its allies, Arabia and Emirates, Qatar, the bordering countries, etc.
The journalist, lists the groups that have supported Hamas, and others that have been "called in" by Iran.
His counts are 25000 from Hezbolla, 60000 from the Iraqi Mobilization Forces, 10000 Houthis, 30000 from Hamas and 3000 from Islamic Jihad.
Imagining that there will be an escalation after the entry into Gaza, do you think it is realistic that a large army will gather on the borders, or how do you think that would play out?
This journalist comments that Hezbolla has up to 60000 missiles, including one called Khalij Fars which has a long range. But if there were to start a missile barrage, does Israel have the capacity to go in on two fronts. What is the role of the United States? To provide constant weaponry or it would also attack from the sea if necessary.
The journalist, lists the groups that have supported Hamas, and others that have been "called in" by Iran.
His counts are 25000 from Hezbolla, 60000 from the Iraqi Mobilization Forces, 10000 Houthis, 30000 from Hamas and 3000 from Islamic Jihad.
Imagining that there will be an escalation after the entry into Gaza, do you think it is realistic that a large army will gather on the borders, or how do you think that would play out?
This journalist comments that Hezbolla has up to 60000 missiles, including one called Khalij Fars which has a long range. But if there were to start a missile barrage, does Israel have the capacity to go in on two fronts. What is the role of the United States? To provide constant weaponry or it would also attack from the sea if necessary.
Or the beginning of something different.
The scale of the attack and the horror of it is, imo, a deliberate attempt to break the deadlock that's been going on since 2007 and the now openly aggressive colonization and settlement politics. Short or long term, they were on the losing side with no ray of light at the end of the tunnel. Something had to give and they went all in.
You might kill all their leaders but you're not getting rid of Hamas without rooting out the causes that lead to its creation.
Israel's immediate response was a very clear-cut war crime: the blockade of Gaza. Then, they started more or less indiscriminate bombing, it's not going to be long until more Palestinian civilians have died from the response than Israeli civilians did.
No Israeli is ever going to be asked to condemn these actions to start an interview. Should they?
I think that's a very naive assumption.
Hamas knows very well how Israel retaliates and what it's capable of, they've been playing this game for decades. It doesn't take a genius to anticipate the hell Israel would unleash after such a horrible attack and they're banking on it, as horrible as it sounds. My uneducated guess is that they want is for the situation to boil way over the Gaza enclave, with the risk of becoming a major regional conflict to get the whole international community fully involved this time. And search for a solution that simply doesn't imply the Palestinians quietly living their shitty life and die in their open air prison without making a fuss. Until there's nothing left of it.
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because the premise means he would've been associate with it if he needs to declare that he isn't.
edit: or what @adexkola said better than me
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“Sorry for your personal loss but you just can’t condone the killings of civilians in Israel”.
Abhorring appalling and absolutely shameless. Indirectly admitting that only one side matter. Might as well say feck the Palestinians and cheer on every death. fecking cnuts BBC and feck everyone who work for them and support this narrative.
Sad but true. A person has to be totally heartless and have no humanity in order to show zero emotions for the Palestinians as well. It's almost as if Israel was just waiting for an excuse to unleash even more terror and they got it. Not that they needed one to begin with, but now they seem to think they have some sort of justification. I'm not condoning violence against anyone but I just wish the same outpouring of sympathy could be shown for all lives in that region. Babies are dying. Has the world lost all sense of what's barbarism is? Have they all gone completely numb? America is supporting war crimes and they're not even bothering to deny or hide it.
Wall Street Journal exclusive.
Iran Helped Plot Attack on Israel Over Several Weeks
The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps gave the final go-ahead last Monday in Beirut
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iran-israel-hamas-strike-planning-bbe07b25
DUBAI—Iranian security officials helped plan Hamas’s Saturday surprise attack on Israel and gave the green light for the assault at a meeting in Beirut last Monday, according to senior members of Hamas and Hezbollah, another Iran-backed militant group.
Officers of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps had worked with Hamas since August to devise the air, land and sea incursions—the most significant breach of Israel’s borders since the 1973 Yom Kippur War—those people said.
Details of the operation were refined during several meetings in Beirut attended by IRGC officers and representatives of four Iran-backed militant groups, including Hamas, which holds power in Gaza, and Hezbollah, a Shiite militant group and political faction in Lebanon, they said.
[...]
Iran Helped Plot Attack on Israel Over Several Weeks
The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps gave the final go-ahead last Monday in Beirut
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iran-israel-hamas-strike-planning-bbe07b25
DUBAI—Iranian security officials helped plan Hamas’s Saturday surprise attack on Israel and gave the green light for the assault at a meeting in Beirut last Monday, according to senior members of Hamas and Hezbollah, another Iran-backed militant group.
Officers of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps had worked with Hamas since August to devise the air, land and sea incursions—the most significant breach of Israel’s borders since the 1973 Yom Kippur War—those people said.
Details of the operation were refined during several meetings in Beirut attended by IRGC officers and representatives of four Iran-backed militant groups, including Hamas, which holds power in Gaza, and Hezbollah, a Shiite militant group and political faction in Lebanon, they said.
[...]
And this was messed by Mossad, CIA, MI6...?