Hands off.
Hands on
Isco
- Thread starter Bwuk
- Start date
Hands on
We win it easily, because they are better technically, more intelligent, more creative, more shifty, better passer, better under presser and all that while not being weak physically.
IMO you underestimate Isco defensive game or overrate Rooney in that regard. He had 3 tackles and 1 clearance in this game (Herrera 3 and 4 respectively, plus 5 interceptions). It’s not like Rooney was very busy all the time stopping Chelsea attack.
Their overall offensive contribution from midfield is incomparable obviously.
Borys it would not happen. Anchelloti, LVG, Mourinho or SAF wouldn't pick them two as a midfield two if they had them at there disposal.. Why you think it would be a good idea I don't know.
Rooney plays there because he is disciplined and like a lot of people always mention sacrifices himself for the benefit of the team, which is what he did again to decent effect on Saturday. I hate him in midfield but he done a decent job.
He's 23 as of this week has worked very, very hard as CM for Madrid, is a fantastic dribbler and a creative passer. If Madrid are crazy enough to sell we should go for him, especially if De Gea is going there anyways:
-----------Rooney--------- (RVP, Wilson)
DiMaria---------------Mata (Young, Januzaj/Depay)
-------Isco---Herrera------ (Fellaini)
-----------Blind------------ (Carrick)
would be a great front 6 next year with lots of talent in the first XI, a Young-Fellaini left side available as a comfortable old shoe, Carrick and RVP getting enough rest to still perform well for a last season.
-----------Rooney--------- (RVP, Wilson)
DiMaria---------------Mata (Young, Januzaj/Depay)
-------Isco---Herrera------ (Fellaini)
-----------Blind------------ (Carrick)
would be a great front 6 next year with lots of talent in the first XI, a Young-Fellaini left side available as a comfortable old shoe, Carrick and RVP getting enough rest to still perform well for a last season.
If you mean with a solid DM behind them, then I agree, Isco-Herrera with Blind/Carrick or someone like Schneiderlin behind them would give Chelsea lots of trouble with their mobility, creativity and sheer desire to make runs off the ball, tackles and interceptions.
We don't use a midfield 2... It would have been Herrera, Isco and Fellaini and normally would be Herrera, Isco in front of Carrick. Would be great to watch especially as Isco has improved so much defensively.
Get the feeling that line up may be slightly too attacking for LVG. Slightly imbalaced.
Be honest, you haven't seen much of Madrid this season.What did Xavi and iniesta do at his age? We moaned for years about lacking that elite technical quality. This kid has it, whatever level he finally reaches. If he goes to city it would indeed be worrysome. They'd have replaced silva brilliantly. We wouldn't even have a silva.
Clearly.
Come on Isco, you know you want to!
Not gonna happen though
Have we? We brought Veron and it didn't work out and I don't remember anyone moaning when we had Carrick and Scholes. If we brought a player like Iniesta or Isco, they would have been inside wingers. I still don't see how Isco works in LVG's 3 man midfield.
When has Isco played in a midfield 3 at Madrid that didn't include a sitting midfielder(deep line playmaker)? Seeing as you watch Madrid a lot?
I didn't have to watch Madrid week in week out to know Isco - Herrera - Fellaini. Wouldn't work.
Not even going to get my hopes up for this one. Despite his obvious quality, I can't see Van Gaal going for him. Not the position we need.
Yeah you’re right, it wouldn’t. Just like Herrera – Rooney – Fellaini didn’t quite work vs Chelsea, but it was an emergency situation as both Carrick and Blind were injured. I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove because it’s obvious he has to play in front of a holding midfielder.
I haven't been following the whole Isco thread.
Is this guy potentially available this summer? as in, Real are keen to sell?
Is this guy potentially available this summer? as in, Real are keen to sell?
I'm trying to prove Herrera Carrick Isco doesn't improve us as say being a proper midfielder in the mold of a Pogba, Schniederlin, gundogan, Vidal etc. There is a list of players for this 3rd midfielder role that come above Isco. That's my point.
Fair enough, I understand your concerns.
However, I would like to point out that before the start of this season I predicted Madrid collapse because of their weak midfield. They got rid of Alonso, who was their only holding mid, and bought Kroos who was playing in more advanced role in Munich. Ancelotti then moved Isco into deeper position as a left midfielder. I thought that this is not going to work at all, too attacking minded players in midfield.
I was wrong, now I think Madrid have the best midfield in the world. They have bigger problems up front IMO.
We don't even need to play him there though he easily could. There's a slot up for grabs on the left, whether we fill it with Depay or Isco and the later is the much better player.
Regarding your point about the Chelsea game, Isco in place of Rooney and Rooney upfront would be a much better team.
Had this arguement earlier.. Not quick enough for the left slot if we have Mata operating on the right.
He should be Iniestas replacement but we know that move wont happen.
It will slowly dawn on you as our possesion game becomes more entrenched in your brain player speed of leg becomes less inportant than player speed of thought
When you're camped out in opposition territory having a player who can run really fast ala Bale offers very little compared to someone who can unpick tiny holes in two banks of 4.The way we play now, qualities that he has are much more important than pace.
EDIT: Should have just quoted @RedorDead21 above.
Very good pointIt will slowly dawn on you as our possesion game becomes more entrenched in your brain player speed of leg becomes less inportant than player speed of thought
Only if you keep your dirty hands off Dave.Hands off.
Isco is not actually slow either if he goes past you not many defenders in this league are catching him as he'll split your defence wide open in the interim. David Silva probably wouldnt beat Kieran Gibbs or Seamus Coleman in a length of the pitch race but once he glides past them its too late for them to do much about it. With us Isco would have one of the fastest left backs in the country bombing past him at every opportunity and who knows maybe Pogba inside him . In some games Isco and Mata might be too one paced on the flanks so Di Maria can come on. Taking 2 of Real's best wide men from them in 2 summers will never be bad business IMO. We need to strengthen centrally I know but Isco cannot be ruled out just because he's not got Theo's pace!
. In some games Isco and Mata might be too one paced on the flanks so Di Maria can come on. Taking 2 of Real's best wide men from them in 2 summers will never be bad business IMO. We need to strengthen centrally I know but Isco cannot be ruled out just because he's not got Theo's pace!So a tricky quick winger can't play possession based football?
In 4 years time Isco best be the best player in the world.
Who's scoring the goals in this team?
In 4 years time Isco best be the best player in the world.
Who's scoring the goals in this team?
Nicely putIt will slowly dawn on you as our possesion game becomes more entrenched in your brain player speed of leg becomes less inportant than player speed of thought
But we do need some pace in our team. Though our fullbacks are no slouches, tbf, neither is Isco.
I'd still think it's an important "plan B" to have when the game is open, or on the counter (though the philosophy is all about possession).
Come on Isco, you know you want to!
Not gonna happen though
That photo is a fake and you know it. Here's the real one;
If De Gea goes to Madrid forget about getting money for him. Just get Varane and one of Kroos or Isco in exchange.
Given he'd have 12 months left on his contract I seriously think Cavajal would be about our lot!
Kroos wouldn't be available. They are building towards him and Pogba as a pairing in midfield imo.
Van Gaal always uses a sitting midfielder though, unless everyone is injured. That's the only reason Herrera did the holding role. Isco-Carrick-Herrera would work perfectly fine and would shit on any midfield in the premier league really.
As for that list of players you put, playing Schneiderlin - Carrick - Herrera would be too defensive and not have enough creativity/attacking output. Gundogan is the risk because of his injuries but he would be a good fit if he ever got back to top form. Pogba would be the ideal midfielder but I'm not sure how likely we are to sign him and he'd cost over 60m. Isco would be a slightly different type but he'd be like the iniesta in our system so I wouldn't be worried at all. Would help our creativity immensely having him there and it wouldn't make us weak defensively as Isco is a hard worker and does a lot of defensive work, as Herrera does (though not as much). People just assume because he's a fancy spanish midfielder that he is lightweight and doesn't put a shift in.
Also for the most part (as far as I've seen), he has played as part of the midfield 3 and not on the wing.
Last edited:
At this rate, Pogba would be playing in at least six teams next season.
true. So many people convinced about where he's ended up.Isco is not actually slow either if he goes past you not many defenders in this league are catching him as he'll split your defence wide open in the interim. David Silva probably wouldnt beat Kieran Gibbs or Seamus Coleman in a length of the pitch race but once he glides past them its too late for them to do much about it. With us Isco would have one of the fastest left backs in the country bombing past him at every opportunity and who knows maybe Pogba inside him
He's getting ruled out because he's not electric enough for a winger in what I hope LVG is trying to create as a front 3. However I do accept the idea playing left or right side of a balanced 3 in midfield can work.
Barca's goal right now just pretty munched summed up what we would all like.
Whats interesting is that the comments made in this thread are almost identical to when Di Maria was arriving at Man Utd.
A year later, Di Maria is not in our first team and is basically a super-sub.
Because of this I am very luke warm about Isco.
IMO we overpaid for Di Maria. Thats fine - it was our first mistake.
But we dont want to do the same thing, the following year, again.
I think the following proverb applies here:
Fool me once - shame on you (R.Madrid).
Fool me twice - shame on me (Man Utd).
A year later, Di Maria is not in our first team and is basically a super-sub.
Because of this I am very luke warm about Isco.
IMO we overpaid for Di Maria. Thats fine - it was our first mistake.
But we dont want to do the same thing, the following year, again.
I think the following proverb applies here:
Fool me once - shame on you (R.Madrid).
Fool me twice - shame on me (Man Utd).
Isco is fantastic and any team in the world will be after him, when he becomes available. Isco starts to live up to his talent, despite being in a difficult situation. There is no reason to believe that he couldn’t show his class in a different team/country. Obviously we should only buy him if you want to play him in the current position; yes he also can play out wide, but he is much better when he starts centrally. It would be silly to buy another player who excels in central areas (Mata, Di Maria, Herrera) just to shoehorn him on the wing.