[Rozay]

I don't think anybody blamed Bruno for us going out of the cup did they?

Where as comparable mistakes by Maguire and he's held solely responsible.

You see the contradiction right?

Plenty to criticise Maguire for without going a bit over the top.

I can’t help you if you think nobody blamed Bruno. And even then - the reason why he may nit have been ‘blamed’, is because it is perfectly fine to win a game 1-0. And we were winning the game, before we were robbed by the ref, hence the greater focus put on that for the reason we ‘didn’t win’.

As you finished your post, there is ‘plenty to criticise Maguire for’, so you would perhaps do well to stop acting so mystified every time anyone exercises that right to criticise him.

 

[Marwood]

I can’t help you if you think nobody blamed Bruno. And even then - the reason why he may nit have been ‘blamed’, is because it is perfectly fine to win a game 1-0. And we were winning the game, before we were robbed by the ref, hence the greater focus put on that for the reason we ‘didn’t win’.

As you finished your post, there is ‘plenty to criticise Maguire for’, so you would perhaps do well to stop acting so mystified anyone exercises that right to criticise him.

How am I mystified by Maguire critisism when as you've noted I've just said there's plenty to criticise him for? You're just going over the top holding him solely responsible for us losing points when as a team we're awful. There's a myriad of reason for dropped points.

Can you show me your own posts blaming Bruno for us going out of the cup?

 

[Rozay]

How am I mystified by Maguire critisism when as you've noted I've just said there's plenty to criticise him for? You're just going over the top holding him solely responsible for us losing points when as a team we're awful. There's a myriad of reason for dropped points.

Can you show me your own posts blaming Bruno for us going out of the cup?

No I can’t, given I didn’t watch the game until a couple of days later. I did, however, read his performance thread, and read a large number of posts being highly critical of his miss. And even his significant army of fan boys on here did not seem to be trying to police this criticism, due to them accepting it is valid.

And you are mystified seemingly because the majority of your posts in this thread, certainly of late, seem to be questioning all criticism of him (while also claiming that you understand it). As a team we were not awful against Burnley, as you put it. Yet we still surrendered our lead, largely due to Maguire. Hence some people deciding to hold him accountable for us dropping points.

 

[Ananke]

Aside from what Maguire has cost us, or ANY player has cost us...who is the current captain of Manchester United? Who sets the standards for Manchester United on that pitch? I don't think anyone is saying "it's all on Maguire".

We are all well aware of just how badly our players are playing right now. But for me, if you're the captain and you're not rallying the players or putting in 4/5 star performances every game, you should be criticized for not doing your job. Being a captain isn't just a status to parade around. It's a responsibility. He's not leading by example, he's not taking on any individual responsibility and he's not given any indication that he's improving.

How can you defend this guy as a CAPTAIN of United? He's embarrassing to watch and embarrassing to listen to.

 

[Marwood]

No I can’t, given I didn’t watch the game until a couple of days later. I [/B]did, however, read his performance thread, and read a large number of posts being highly critical of his miss. And even his significant army of fan boys on here did not seem to be trying to police this criticism, due to them accepting it is valid.

And you are mystified seemingly because the majority of your posts in this thread, certainly of late, seem to be questioning all criticism of him (while also claiming that you understand it). As a team we were not awful against Burnley, as you put it. Yet we still surrendered our lead, largely due to Maguire. Hence some people deciding to hold him accountable for us dropping points.

Well of course they were critical of his miss. It was a terrible miss. But you didn't hold him responsible for us going out and you can't quote anybody else saying so either. Despite claiming they did.

So Bruno misses practically an open goal, which you agree is as bad as one of Maguires mistakes.

But nothing from you about Bruno post Middlesbrough game(I'm sure you saw the highlights at least right? Or were at least aware he'd missed an open goal).

Yet here you are holding Maguire solely accountable for us losing games with an equivalent bad bit of play.

It's massive hypocrisy.

Maguire's having a shocking season but in this sea of garbage football we're playing it's impossible to pin anything on one player.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

yeah

pretty much everyone else on here thinks it was a mistake to commit

pundits think it was a mistake

yet you don’t, so what are you seeing that everyone else can’t see?

So when he doesn't get tight to a forward, for example, Aaron Lennon's goal, he gets blamed for not getting tight, but when he gets tight to a forward, he gets blamed because he shouldn't get tight. Give your head a shake

 

[Ananke]

So when he doesn't get tight to a forward, for example, Aaron Lennon's goal, he gets blamed for not getting tight, but when he gets tight to a forward, he gets blamed because he shouldn't get tight.

Funnily enough knowing when to get tight/back off is an intellectual decision dependent on the opponent you're up against and the situation you're in at the time. If in both situations it ends up in a goal for the opponent, chances are you made the wrong decision. Therefore your judgement in high intensity premier league football games should be questioned/criticized.

 

[romufc]

I’ve already answered that. It is an argument, that can be dismissed mathematically.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with winning a game 1-0. If we win a game 1-0, the strikers have done their job to win us a game. We have won plenty games 1-0. Yes the strikers could have done a better job, but by scoring, they have given us a chance to win the game. Which we would have had we not conceded. If we failed to score another goal in the second half and won the game 1-0, there would have been no problem. It wouldn’t have even been down to Maguire heroically keeping Burnley out in the second half. They barely did anything. Yet Maguire still managed to hand them a goal and almost get sent off, both from situations of almost no danger at all.

This is all before we (or you, at least) decide to acknowledge that Maguire actively undermined our forward effort in Varane’s goal. That isn’t the only time. We drew 1-1 against Newcastle, for example. His defending on Newcastle’s goal was very poor, and he also missed a sitter at the opposing end.

Oh so now Maguire's defending was bad against Newcastle? Not when Varane passed it straight to the Newcastle player? This is exactly what I mean by an agenda. Clear one for a mistake blame another for 1/4 of the mistake Varane made.

Then blame Maguire for us not scoring goals either . I was under the impression attackers are meant to score us goals. So we blaming Maguire for not scoring or defending.

This must be the only club where a football game of 11 players is played by 1 man.

 

[Rozay]

Oh so now Maguire's defending was bad against Newcastle? Not when Varane passed it straight to the Newcastle player? This is exactly what I mean by an agenda. Clear one for a mistake blame another for 1/4 of the mistake Varane made.

Then blame Maguire for us not scoring goals either . I was under the impression attackers are meant to score us goals. So we blaming Maguire for not scoring or defending.

This must be the only club where a football game of 11 players is played by 1 man.

Okay sir.

Let me just withdraw my criticism of Maguire. It is clearly unwarranted. My bad guys.

 

[Rozay]

Well of course they were critical of his miss. It was a terrible miss. But you didn't hold him responsible for us going out and you can't quote anybody else saying so either. Despite claiming they did.

So Bruno misses practically an open goal, which you agree is as bad as one of Maguires mistakes.

But nothing from you about Bruno post Middlesbrough game(I'm sure you saw the highlights at least right? Or were at least aware he'd missed an open goal).

Yet here you are holding Maguire solely accountable for us losing games with an equivalent bad bit of play.

It's massive hypocrisy.

Maguire's having a shocking season but in this sea of garbage football we're playing it's impossible to pin anything on one player.

But I didn’t blame Maguire either. Pick another game ffs. I didn’t post anything about the game, because I didn’t watch it.

There isn’t a requirement for me to pick a player I hold accountable after every game, Maguire or otherwise. If there was nothing to report after the Boro game, then there was nothing, get over it.

And for what it’s worth, there were a number of posters criticising Maguire for Boro’s goal and playing a man onside. I didn’t bother with that, even if it were true. I’m not that forensic. It wasn’t utter stupidity like his abomination against Leicester. Or Watford. These are situations where I will come out and hold him accountable. I have no desire to play this silly ‘what about him’ game - it is fecking clear for al except those who choose not to see why Maguire is being blamed for some of these ridiculous goals he has contributed to. But we’ll consider this silly song and dance as to why what was clearly a goal-costing Maguire error should instead be a conversation about a different player. Because, obviously.

 

[romufc]

Okay sir.

Let me just withdraw my criticism of Maguire. It is clearly unwarranted. My bad guys.

No one said Maguire is immune from criticism, he has been awful but to make him a scapegoat for us not qualifying top 4 is a bit much.

 

[arthurka]

Of course Shaw is at fault, he's the other side of the pitch and from Maguire making his error and the pass being played he drops 5/6 yards and singlehandedly plays a player that had been stood in an offside position, onside. It is abysmal from Shaw and frankly had him & Maguire been switched around people would still be laying the blame at Maguire's door.

As for that VAR call, that was an absolutely ridiculous decision given it's something that happens about 15 times every game & had no impact on the goal anyway. Stuart Atwell masterclass.

When you then look at what VAR gave in the Tottenham v Southampton it's even more ridiculous if that's a goal both goals should be given Vs Burnley.
Maguire and Shaw should be nowhere near the starting lineup. They are both in a horrid form.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Maguire 2019 - 22

Ten fecking minutes

 

[Rozay]

No one said Maguire is immune from criticism, he has been awful but to make him a scapegoat for us not qualifying top 4 is a bit much.

That would explain what everyone has been saying about him.

And we haven’t failed to qualify for the top 4 yet. But if Maguire stays in the team, on the trends we have seen so far, there is a real chance that his presence could be the difference in our failing to qualify. As it stands, he has cost us a number of goals, but I don’t need to go into that because by your own assessment - he has been awful. There is nobody else in our team that I can say has, and is likely to cost us more than they have contributed. Bruno, as has been mentioned a number of times, fecked up an open goal against Boro. However, can anyone say that over the course of this season, we’d have been better off with him out of the team? Maguire, and Shaw perhaps, are the only players who have overwhelmingly been a greater detraction than their contributions. In summary, they have cost us.

 

[TSE123]

No one said Maguire is immune from criticism, he has been awful but to make him a scapegoat for us not qualifying top 4 is a bit much.

To be honest its not. He alone has cost enough points to put us securely into top 4!

AND sad news have just reached us! By the sound of it he is likely to start again tomorrow…SO thats another few points lost!

 

[hobbers]

Ten fecking minutes

The length of Jones, Lingard and Bebe mockery videos combined.

Maguire is a gigantic laughing stock.

 

[VanDeBank]

It does fly because Mings is also a calamity. At his best he is still worse than Maguire at his worst.

C'mon man, this ain't true. Maguire at his worst (this season under Ole when his confidence was on the floor) was the worst CB in the league.

 

[SirMonteyne]

CBs are most important if you look at our good run in last season and Liverpool. Being confident in your backyard always helps team to push forward. Hope RR benchs him for few games until he figures out of what's wrong with himself.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Maguire 2019 - 22

Calling him average would be extremely kind.

 

[Marwood]

But I didn’t blame Maguire either. Pick another game ffs. I didn’t post anything about the game, because I didn’t watch it.

There isn’t a requirement for me to pick a player I hold accountable after every game, Maguire or otherwise. If there was nothing to report after the Boro game, then there was nothing, get over it.

And for what it’s worth, there were a number of posters criticising Maguire for Boro’s goal and playing a man onside. I didn’t bother with that, even if it were true. I’m not that forensic. It wasn’t utter stupidity like his abomination against Leicester. Or Watford. These are situations where I will come out and hold him accountable. I have no desire to play this silly ‘what about him’ game - it is fecking clear for al except those who choose not to see why Maguire is being blamed for some of these ridiculous goals he has contributed to. But we’ll consider this silly song and dance as to why what was clearly a goal-costing Maguire error should instead be a conversation about a different player. Because, obviously.

You're right there isn't.

But if you want to avoid massive hypocrisy you might want to also call a few others out when they "cost us top 4" by making big mistakes. A lot of players are making a lot of mistakes. Plenty to go at yet you're only giving Maguire that weight of culpability.

 

[Deery]

Maguire 2019 - 22

Make it stop!

Joking aside, if I’m a Southampton striker I am targeting Maguire tomorrow morning, better if he rested.

 

[Alejandro Angel]

I’d imagine so. Hence why Bruno was held largely accountable for the game in which he missed the open goal

We need to be more clinical yes, all the attacking players have to be accountable as do all the players.
My main problem with Maguire other than his extremely poor performances is his unwillingness to be accountable himself. After the match his interview he said three times that we need to be more clinical, yet did not acknowledge how inept his defending was for there goal. It was such a poor decision to engage and tackle and block off McTominay rather than Burnley's 6ft6 striker. All he had to do was let McTominay tackle him and keep his position, he could the engage If McTominay fails in his tackle, but he interferes and blocks off McTominay, (how many times has he blocked pulled back and got in his own teammates way which has led directly to a goal)
Then he was out of position but could have challenged for the ball whilst running against the not very rapid Rodriguez the ball was on his side but his excuse was he was the last man.
He is the most expensive defender in the world.
He is the Manchester United Captain.
He is definitely not, a Bruce, a Ferdinand a Vidic all players who played as Captain of utd and center back. Ferdinand did come in as the most expensive defender aswell.
Maguire has been poor for most of the season, he played ok against West Ham yes and he is not the only one, but the players who have played badly like Shaw lost their place,
He has been directly responsible for so many goals this season. I truly want to support all utd players but he makes it very difficult with his performances both on the pitch and his interviews.

 

[Tarrou]

So when he doesn't get tight to a forward, for example, Aaron Lennon's goal, he gets blamed for not getting tight, but when he gets tight to a forward, he gets blamed because he shouldn't get tight. Give your head a shake

It’s almost as if there’s a difference between situations that you’d expect a top defender to assess and make good decisions on

and there is some fundamental difference between Aaron Lennon and a giant target man that I’m just not seeing

 

[SadlerMUFC]

It’s almost as if there’s a difference between situations that you’d expect a top defender to assess and make good decisions on

and there is some fundamental difference between Aaron Lennon and a giant target man that I’m just not seeing

So in your head you get tight on a player like Lennon but you give space to a giant striker. Got it....that just about sums up the football knowledge on this site

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Funnily enough knowing when to get tight/back off is an intellectual decision dependent on the opponent you're up against and the situation you're in at the time. If in both situations it ends up in a goal for the opponent, chances are you made the wrong decision. Therefore your judgement in high intensity premier league football games should be questioned/criticized.

I've already explained what should have happened. Maguire's biggest mistake wasn't getting tight. It was the he should have gotten tight sooner. But when he does, McTominay should back off and rather than go in for the tackle from behind, he should get goal side of Maguire and back him up. Then Varane can stay with Rodriguez. Check that....Varane never even looked at Rodriguez. But nobody says anyting about that do they?? He was his man afterall...

 

[Frank Grimes]

Is it all right to think Maguire is a bit shit but the abuse he receives online is despicable. Seriously, it's only football.

 

[arthurka]

Is it all right to think Maguire is a bit shit but the abuse he receives online is despicable. Seriously, it's only football.

I agree, he is extremely shit but he doesn't pick himself right?

 

[TsuWave]

Is it all right to think Maguire is a bit shit but the abuse he receives online is despicable. Seriously, it's only football.

I agree, he is extremely shit but he doesn't pick himself right?

what abuse is he receiving? it's mostly people saying he's a bum in a footballing sense and it's not as if the posts here are being sent to his inbox, nor are the random tweets by large @'ing him

 

[Plant0x84]

At this point the mob have spoken, and it feels like a pointless task trying to defend harry or talk him up. Before the Euros he was world class, now he needs to be sold. It’s ridiculous. He will come good again, and a lot of fickle fans will have egg on their faces.

 

[Oranges038]

So in your head you get tight on a player like Lennon but you give space to a giant striker. Got it....that just about sums up the football knowledge on this site

His approach to both of those situations was totally different though and equally wrong.

He should have got tighter to Lennon, if he had he wouldn't have been able to shoot across him to the far post. If he dived in like he did on Weghorst, Lennon would have skipped past him and probably scored anyway. He should have got tighter to him to be in position to either block the shot or shepherd him away from goal.

On Weghorst, he did the exact opposite he went haring out, got too tight and dived in. Totally sold himself and got left behind. He can tight behind him and hold him up, force him back. He shouldn't be diving in and getting turned so easily.

 

[Rozay]

You're right there isn't.

But if you want to avoid massive hypocrisy you might want to also call a few others out when they "cost us top 4" by making big mistakes. A lot of players are making a lot of mistakes. Plenty to go at yet you're only giving Maguire that weight of culpability.

I’ve answered this before. Those players, like Bruno, are also making significant positive contribution to the cause. Maguire is in a significant deficit, of which only Luke Shaw can maybe rival. Despite whatever mistake Bruno may have made this season, the team would not be closer to the top 4 had we played one of our different players instead. Nobody has looked like they would be a better option. Maguire has been a clear hindrance, and outperformed by every single other centre half at the club when they have been given opportunity. Comfortably. Playing him has cost us, as he has added zero benefit but lost us points. Ronaldo has missed some chances. He is also our top scorer. It balances, if we are to make the top 4, the efforts he has out in will be a big part.

I don’t need to make a list of individuals that are costing us a shot at the top 4 if my list comprises of one player. De Gea cost us a proper shot at the top 4 3 years ago, due to making error after error in the run in which cost us points. Which is why I said he cost us. I could have said, ‘De Gea didn’t help, but our forwards didn’t score 4 goals a game to make his errors irrelevant’. But I didn’t. My take was that De Gea’s feck ups were outside the normal flow and expectations of a football match, and if a normal standard was produced, we’d have won more points. Forwards missing a shot is also considered normal by me. Forwards missing all of their shots isn’t. A defender making an error is normal. A defender making a series of errors throughout the season to cost us points is not, which has been Maguire’s contribution. As it was Axel Tuanzebe’s last season which attracted the same assessment from me. He was costing us goals every time he played.

 

[United in sin]

At this point the mob have spoken, and it feels like a pointless task trying to defend harry or talk him up. Before the Euros he was world class, now he needs to be sold. It’s ridiculous. He will come good again, and a lot of fickle fans will have egg on their faces.

When was he ever good?

 

[elnorte]

At this point the mob have spoken, and it feels like a pointless task trying to defend harry or talk him up. Before the Euros he was world class, now he needs to be sold. It’s ridiculous. He will come good again, and a lot of fickle fans will have egg on their faces.

Says the creator of 'Could this be the beginning of something' thread. You maybe ought to learn a little humility.

 

[Tap]

At this point the mob have spoken, and it feels like a pointless task trying to defend harry or talk him up. Before the Euros he was world class, now he needs to be sold. It’s ridiculous. He will come good again, and a lot of fickle fans will have egg on their faces.

Don’t feck things up on a regular basis and there wouldn’t be any mob.

 

[DRJosh]

I think Maguire did himself no favours at the post-match interview. If he had owned up to making a crucial mistake that would have been more palatable for the fan base rather then using the collective “we”. For me, I think there is a decent defender in him somewhere but we need a new captain.

 

[King29]

At this point the mob have spoken, and it feels like a pointless task trying to defend harry or talk him up. Before the Euros he was world class, now he needs to be sold. It’s ridiculous. He will come good again, and a lot of fickle fans will have egg on their faces.

He was decent before euros, world class is a stretch. And how do we know if he come "decent" again and if so how long can we afford to wait?

 

[ReallyUSA]

Maguire the Undroppable hear hear!

 

[Chief123]

At this point the mob have spoken, and it feels like a pointless task trying to defend harry or talk him up. Before the Euros he was world class, now he needs to be sold. It’s ridiculous. He will come good again, and a lot of fickle fans will have egg on their faces.

He’s never been world class. Don’t be silly.

 

[pratyush_utd]

At this point the mob have spoken, and it feels like a pointless task trying to defend harry or talk him up. Before the Euros he was world class, now he needs to be sold. It’s ridiculous. He will come good again, and a lot of fickle fans will have egg on their faces.

He was never “World class”. He did okay in a team that was set to do counter attack. The moment we changed to high press, his lack of mobility started getting exposed.

There are things he does well, like winning headers. But he gets turned way too often to be called world class. And his physical attributes like speed isnt going to improve anymore. He is also slower in comparison to an average defender turn speed. He is not completely hopeless but will always be suspect and we have to move on to a defender who can play in high press system.

 

[Jackal981]

At this point the mob have spoken, and it feels like a pointless task trying to defend harry or talk him up. Before the Euros he was world class, now he needs to be sold. It’s ridiculous. He will come good again, and a lot of fickle fans will have egg on their faces.

World class my arse. At his best he was mediocre. He made mistake week in and out. Every time he had 1v1 he got nutmegged or burned easily