[SAFMUTD]

Looking at Rangnicks answer about captaincy I think it's only a matter of time before Maguire loses it.


Rangnick asked about the captaincy for next season: “I think it doesn’t make sense because you don’t know which kind of players will be here, what the group will look like.”

“I can only tell what I have done in the past when I was the head coach or the manager. I strongly believe that the captain should be elected by the team because he’s called the team manager, and we always did that.”

"We always had a board of four or five players, we called it the spielkapitän, elected by the players, the player with the highest amount of votes was the team captain at the end. That’s how I did it, I know that not a lot of head coaches do it that way…”

 

[Andycoleno9]

Looking at Rangnicks answer about captaincy I think it's only a matter of time before Maguire loses it.


Rangnick asked about the captaincy for next season: “I think it doesn’t make sense because you don’t know which kind of players will be here, what the group will look like.”

“I can only tell what I have done in the past when I was the head coach or the manager. I strongly believe that the captain should be elected by the team because he’s called the team manager, and we always did that.”

"We always had a board of four or five players, we called it the spielkapitän, elected by the players, the player with the highest amount of votes was the team captain at the end. That’s how I did it, I know that not a lot of head coaches do it that way…”

This is the way

 

[FrankDrebin]

He'll lose the captaincy, if he's still here, but I don't know who'll gain it. Maybe Ronaldo but will here be here himself ?

 

[Bwuk]

Not really sure how he can stay here if he loses captaincy tbh. It'd be a major kick in the teeth.

Hopefully it signals we are wanting to move him on.

 

[Kaos]

He'll lose the captaincy, if he's still here, but I don't know who'll gain it. Maybe Ronaldo but will here be here himself ?

It'll be one of him or De Gea - since at least one will be here/starting next season you'd imagine. After that, feck knows. Bruno maybe if he sorts out his whinge act? Varane if he stays fit for more than 5 minutes? Declan Rice?

No idea tbh, just shows how much we're lacking in natural leaders.

 

[DRJosh]

De Gea is the natural successor and the one player who has (despite his limitations) put on decent performances in a United shirt. Ronaldo's time at the club in his current stint at 37 is a short one so I doubt he will be the new captain.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

What kind of high line is static. It's football It's played in moments of transition and when you have a CB who turns like a truck with no recovery pace it's a lot harder to implement. Van Dijk since you raise Liverpool has fantastic recovery pace and it saves Liverpool often. Slow and poor positioning is a killer.

Sorry, I used the wrong word. Feet are still but you're moving the wrong way. And Allison is the one who rescues them the most with the balls through the high line. We don't have that at United

 

[Maniron]

I think it would be for the best all round if he doesn't play again this season. It will take huge pressure off him and he may well come back next season with renewed enthusiasm. He along with everyone else will have the opportunity to impress EtH in training and EtH will decide if he wants to keep him as captain or if he wants to keep him at all.

 

[Roux]

We just look soo much more mobile and can actually play out from the back properly without him in the team - hopefully EtH sees this and ships him out and brings in 1-2 CBs.

 

[GDaly95]

Shite form from Maguire or attacking him for the sake of it at this stage?

Apologies if already being discussed elsewhere.

 

[Lyng]

We just look soo much more mobile and can actually play out from the back properly without him in the team - hopefully EtH sees this and ships him out and brings in 1-2 CBs.

Its also quite interesting to see how much better Varane looks when he is not playing next to Maguire.

 

[youngrell]

Shite form from Maguire or attacking him for the sake of it at this stage?

Apologies if already being discussed elsewhere.

Well, there's 4 other people sitting down in that image so it's hard to know whether the caption is true.

 

[Freak]

Well, there's 4 other people sitting down in that image so it's hard to know whether the caption is true.

None of the other 4 people is the captain of the football club.

 

[Berbaclass]

None of the other 4 people is the captain of the football club.

Exactly

 

[youngrell]

None of the other 4 people is the captain of the football club.

expected reply.

My point was that the caption itself (everyone else was up applauding) is complete bollocks, so who knows whether that photo was actually taken during the Juan Mata applause?

I'm not defending Maguire, just pointing out that the photo could have been taken at any point during the match and then captioned this way.

 

[GDaly95]

expected reply.

My point was that the caption itself (everyone else was up applauding) is complete bollocks, so who knows whether that photo was actually taken during the Juan Mata applause?

I'm not defending Maguire, just pointing out that the photo could have been taken at any point during the match and then captioned this way.

You could easily be right. The tweeter has provably lied on one part of the tweet so could be lying in general

 

[Classical Mechanic]

The tweeter appears to live his life in Liam Gallagher cosplay and is a conspiracy theorist retweeting the likes of Gareth Icke i.e. he's a fecking moron.

 

[Lay]

Why is someone taking a picture of Maguire during a standing ovation for another player.

 

[badname]

I have no doubts that Maguire is almost as bad as a captain, as he is as a player.

 

[VidaRed]

 

[RacingClub]

I actually thought he looked Uniteds best player when he came on yesterday (Not that it would be hard) because he looked like someone that was trying to make things happen.

Some good headed clearances, a shot on goal from a set piece and the "Assist" for Cavanis offside goal (Unless I'm mistaken?).

 

[RopersReturn]

Ralf -“We always had a board of four or five players, we called it the spielkapitän, elected by the players, the player with the highest amount of votes was the team captain at the end. That’s how I did it”.

A straight forward solution to a pertinently obvious problem. Maguire therefore goes back into pack and plays on a rotational basis.

 

[Jacob]

Everything we touch turn to shit

 

[Yagami]

Exactly why I was against bringing him on instead of Jones.

Does nothing wrong and still gets nonsense like this. Should've sat out until ten Hag arrived.

 

[Lentwood]

I actually thought he looked Uniteds best player when he came on yesterday (Not that it would be hard) because he looked like someone that was trying to make things happen.

Some good headed clearances, a shot on goal from a set piece and the "Assist" for Cavanis offside goal (Unless I'm mistaken?).

Maguire is very often our best player in a team which is so shambolically disorganised and easy to play through that it's basically impossible for any CB to be consistent.

The problem is, some posters never accepted him because they didn't like Ole, some never accepted him because he's not a fancy Continental name and some never accepted him because they don't really know what they are watching and can only calculate "Utd concede lots of goals, ergo Maguire no good".

The fact that Varane looks even worse in this side just tells you everything you need to know about how hard it is to defend in this team

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Why post that? That was a different match, no?

Anyway, shite goalkeeping by De Gea. So bad with the ball at his feet.

 

[Yagami]

Why post that? That was a different match, no?

Anyway, shite goalkeeping by De Gea. So bad with the ball at his feet.

A mix of de Gea's poor footwork and us - mainly the midfield - being so unorganised resulting in no passing options.

if people aren't happy with Maguire turning like this, they will not like Timber and de Jong here.

 

[Lyng]

Maguire is very often our best player in a team which is so shambolically disorganised and easy to play through that it's basically impossible for any CB to be consistent.

The problem is, some posters never accepted him because they didn't like Ole, some never accepted him because he's not a fancy Continental name and some never accepted him because they don't really know what they are watching and can only calculate "Utd concede lots of goals, ergo Maguire no good".

The fact that Varane looks even worse in this side just tells you everything you need to know about how hard it is to defend in this team

Or some look at his actual ability on the ball and realize he doesnt fit a modern progressive side.

 

[OL29]

Maguire is very often our best player in a team which is so shambolically disorganised and easy to play through that it's basically impossible for any CB to be consistent.

The problem is, some posters never accepted him because they didn't like Ole, some never accepted him because he's not a fancy Continental name and some never accepted him because they don't really know what they are watching and can only calculate "Utd concede lots of goals, ergo Maguire no good".

The fact that Varane looks even worse in this side just tells you everything you need to know about how hard it is to defend in this team

This is revisionism at its finest but very predictable. Maguire’s dropped clangers game after game this season but Varane’s shocker yesterday now means he’s been worse. The joys of being English.

 

[TOKUGAWA-X]

Apart from our Captain we dont have anyone who can carry the ball from the back, from the midfield, Maguire has been one of our most consistent players since he arrived.

He is our best CB aswell. Its time to support him and give him in the summer a proper partner and midfield.

 

[Lentwood]

This is revisionism at its finest but very predictable. Maguire’s dropped clangers game after game this season but Varane’s shocker yesterday now means he’s been worse. The joys of being English.

Not at all. I have defended Maguire all season because I genuinely believe his bad performances are over-exaggerated and his good one's just go begrudgingly unnoticed. Maguire gets that kind of treatment were he starts on a 5/10 with fans and the media and has to have a faultless game to score a 6 or 7/10

Varane has been no better than Maguire, if not worse, but has escaped because he is still in that honeymoon period new signings get with fans. Kind of like how Jadon Sancho has really contributed very little for a £73m player but is still largely liked on this forum.

If we're being objective about it, Varane has been very underwhelming so far. I don't know where this idea comes from that some fans want to somehow stand-up for English players and criticise foreign players, it makes no sense and borders on an insulting thing to say to someone.

What I will say in defence of Varane is also what I have been saying in defence of Maguire....that they are trying to defend in the hardest possible circumstances. There is not a single other team in the league that makes it as hard for their CBs as we do. So I'm not writing off Varane at all, I am just saying let's be objective about it.

 

[OL29]

Not at all. I have defended Maguire all season because I genuinely believe his bad performances are over-exaggerated and his good one's just go begrudgingly unnoticed. Maguire gets that kind of treatment were he starts on a 5/10 with fans and the media and has to have a faultless game to score a 6 or 7/10

Varane has been no better than Maguire, if not worse, but has escaped because he is still in that honeymoon period new signings get with fans. Kind of like how Jadon Sancho has really contributed very little for a £73m player but is still largely liked on this forum.

If we're being objective about it, Varane has been very underwhelming so far. I don't know where this idea comes from that some fans want to somehow stand-up for English players and criticise foreign players, it makes no sense and borders on an insulting thing to say to someone.

What I will say in defence of Varane is also what I have been saying in defence of Maguire....that they are trying to defend in the hardest possible circumstances. There is not a single other team in the league that makes it as hard for their CBs as we do. So I'm not writing off Varane at all, I am just saying let's be objective about it.

It makes just as much sense as you saying Maguire gets criticised because he hasn’t got a continental sounding name. I would also argue that it’s more insulting to suggest that people are picking on Maguire just because we concede a lot of goals when he’s been so consistently poor this season and that Maguire has been our best defender. There’s extenuating circumstances but as an individual he’s been abject.
If you think Varane’s been worse than Maguire then that’s fair enough, you’re entitled to your opinion but many would disagree simply due to the fact Maguire’s made a lot more glaring errors for most of the season, many of which have directly lead to goals conceded. Varane has been average at best but barring yesterday, I don’t think he’s reached the lows of Maguire.

 

[Lentwood]

It makes just as much sense as you saying Maguire gets criticised because he hasn’t got a continental sounding name. I would also argue that it’s more insulting to suggest that people are picking on Maguire just because we concede a lot of goals when he’s been so consistently poor this season and that Maguire has been our best defender. There’s extenuating circumstances but as an individual he’s been abject.
If you think Varane’s been worse than Maguire then that’s fair enough, you’re entitled to your opinion but many would disagree simply due to the fact Maguire’s made a lot more glaring errors for most of the season, many of which have directly lead to goals conceded. Varane has been average at best but barring yesterday, I don’t think he’s reached the lows of Maguire.

It's not only that fans are picking on Maguire because we concede a tonne of goals, it's also because he's been constantly hammered on social media by the clickbait numpties that run the fan channels and I believe that that has poisoned supporters minds.

You know how like when it comes to Politics, and you hear people down the pub repeating glib cliches they have read in the tabloid media? That's how I feel about some of our fanbase's attitude to certain players at the moment. They are influenced and almost brainwashed by reactionary idiots like Goldbridge and some of the other fan channel stuff.

I know it's not the way the human mind works and we're all influenced by external factors all of the time, but I'd like people to try to be objective and think for a second. Does it really make sense that Harry Maguire, Raphael Varane and Victor Lindelof are 'poor' CBs? We keep going on about how we need a new CB but we've been having this conversation for a decade and in all that time we have completely neglected addressing the glaring issues we have in the centre of midfield.

My opinion, just to wrap this up as simply as possible, is that Varane and Maguire are very good CBs. I'm not here to debate whether they are elite, but they are certainly as good or better than CBs that are performing fine in teams that are achieving more than United at the moment. Likewise, Lindelof is captain of the Swedish national team and certainly no mug.

Why can Arsenal perform fine with Gabriel and Ben White? Why can Spurs perform fine with the likes of Eric Dier? Why don't Villa get battered 4-0 by Brighton and 4-1 by Watford with Tyrone Mings?

Since the start of the season, every single fan and pundit has agreed that United are far too open, disorganised, don't work hard enough and so easy to play against. So if we all agree on that (and I genuinely think we do) then why is it the defenders that are getting hammered constantly? That's not on them, that's on the four forwards and the two CMs.

You could swap Maguire or Varane for Dias/Stones/Matip/Laporte etc...and I genuinely don't believe we would be any better. I leave out VVD because he's just a freak and would just about look half-decent in any side.

 

[romufc]

It's not only that fans are picking on Maguire because we concede a tonne of goals, it's also because he's been constantly hammered on social media by the clickbait numpties that run the fan channels and I believe that that has poisoned supporters minds.

You know how like when it comes to Politics, and you hear people down the pub repeating glib cliches they have read in the tabloid media? That's how I feel about some of our fanbase's attitude to certain players at the moment. They are influenced and almost brainwashed by reactionary idiots like Goldbridge and some of the other fan channel stuff.

I know it's not the way the human mind works and we're all influenced by external factors all of the time, but I'd like people to try to be objective and think for a second. Does it really make sense that Harry Maguire, Raphael Varane and Victor Lindelof are 'poor' CBs? We keep going on about how we need a new CB but we've been having this conversation for a decade and in all that time we have completely neglected addressing the glaring issues we have in the centre of midfield.

My opinion, just to wrap this up as simply as possible, is that Varane and Maguire are very good CBs. I'm not here to debate whether they are elite, but they are certainly as good or better than CBs that are performing fine in teams that are achieving more than United at the moment. Likewise, Lindelof is captain of the Swedish national team and certainly no mug.

Why can Arsenal perform fine with Gabriel and Ben White? Why can Spurs perform fine with the likes of Eric Dier? Why don't Villa get battered 4-0 by Brighton and 4-1 by Watford with Tyrone Mings?

Since the start of the season, every single fan and pundit has agreed that United are far too open, disorganised, don't work hard enough and so easy to play against. So if we all agree on that (and I genuinely think we do) then when is it the defenders that are getting hammered constantly? That's not on them, that's on the four forwards and the two CMs.

You could swap Maguire or Varane for Dias/Stones/Matip/Laporte etc...and I genuinely don't believe we would be any better. I leave out VVD because he's just a freak and would just about look half-decent in any side.

What you have to understand is majority of the people don't understand football, or understand it is a team game.

All they see is Mark Goldbridge or someone else say we are bad at defending because Maguire is bad.

Then go onto post every mistake he makes. I saw VVD misplace a pass the other day. I see alot of CB's mis place passes, Dias gave away a penalty.

This fan group is agenda based, there has to be someone to put the blame.

If people understood football, they'd realise that defending is not based on individual play, its how a team defends from the front.

If the gap between defence - mid - forward is too big, doesn't matter who plays, we will concede goals, if we are not tight defensively, we will concede goals. Its as simple as that.

Our full backs are rubbish, our DM's are non existent, our forwards dont know how to press or position themselves to cut passing lanes.

 

[Lentwood]

What you have to understand is majority of the people don't understand football, or understand it is a team game.

All they see is Mark Goldbridge or someone else say we are bad at defending because Maguire is bad.

Then go onto post every mistake he makes. I saw VVD misplace a pass the other day. I see alot of CB's mis place passes, Dias gave away a penalty.

This fan group is agenda based, there has to be someone to put the blame.

If people understood football, they'd realise that defending is not based on individual play, its how a team defends from the front.

If the gap between defence - mid - forward is too big, doesn't matter who plays, we will concede goals, if we are not tight defensively, we will concede goals. Its as simple as that.

Our full backs are rubbish, our DM's are non existent, our forwards dont know how to press or position themselves to cut passing lanes.

I agree with 99% of that.

I know we're talking about completely different levels here but I have played RB and CB at lower regional semi-pro level in my late teens/early 20s and the difference it makes when you have a team working as a unit, working hard in-front of the back four and as you say, cutting off the passing lanes and angles is huge.

It's not even about thundering tackles or even necessarily winning possession back at times, it's about harassing opponents into making mistakes or into not being able to isolate players or find pockets of space. It's about making them rush their passes or have to go backwards. I really don't think 50% of our fanbase gets this, and that's why they are constantly confused when an array of expensive International CBs look poor in our side.

Of course, when you're under pressure, when the opposition are getting joy against you and finding space, then you do start making poor individual errors at CB because you're constantly pulled out of position and/or left second-guessing all of your choices. So one thing follows another, lack of organisation and work-rate from the midfield and forwards leads to more goals/chances conceded and then in-turn, the defenders compound that by losing confidence and making their own individual mistakes

 

[Smores]

Nothing worse than posters who in the absence of a convincing argument just pat each other on the back for thier own superior intellect. One of the most pathetic aspects of debate on here.

The idea that people only think Maguire is shit because of Goldbridge is laughable. If that's your conclusion you really don't deserve to be trying to play the superior intellect.

He's simply judged on his performances like everyone else.

 

[OL29]

It's not only that fans are picking on Maguire because we concede a tonne of goals, it's also because he's been constantly hammered on social media by the clickbait numpties that run the fan channels and I believe that that has poisoned supporters minds.

You know how like when it comes to Politics, and you hear people down the pub repeating glib cliches they have read in the tabloid media? That's how I feel about some of our fanbase's attitude to certain players at the moment. They are influenced and almost brainwashed by reactionary idiots like Goldbridge and some of the other fan channel stuff.

I know it's not the way the human mind works and we're all influenced by external factors all of the time, but I'd like people to try to be objective and think for a second. Does it really make sense that Harry Maguire, Raphael Varane and Victor Lindelof are 'poor' CBs? We keep going on about how we need a new CB but we've been having this conversation for a decade and in all that time we have completely neglected addressing the glaring issues we have in the centre of midfield.

My opinion, just to wrap this up as simply as possible, is that Varane and Maguire are very good CBs. I'm not here to debate whether they are elite, but they are certainly as good or better than CBs that are performing fine in teams that are achieving more than United at the moment. Likewise, Lindelof is captain of the Swedish national team and certainly no mug.

Why can Arsenal perform fine with Gabriel and Ben White? Why can Spurs perform fine with the likes of Eric Dier? Why don't Villa get battered 4-0 by Brighton and 4-1 by Watford with Tyrone Mings?

Since the start of the season, every single fan and pundit has agreed that United are far too open, disorganised, don't work hard enough and so easy to play against. So if we all agree on that (and I genuinely think we do) then why is it the defenders that are getting hammered constantly? That's not on them, that's on the four forwards and the two CMs.

You could swap Maguire or Varane for Dias/Stones/Matip/Laporte etc...and I genuinely don't believe we would be any better. I leave out VVD because he's just a freak and would just about look half-decent in any side.

I agree with you for the most part, our defence looks a lot worse than they should due to the complete disorganisation amongst the whole team, and they would probably look better in a well coached side. With that said, they still need to maintain a certain standard, Varane and even more so Maguire have fallen short of that standard this season.

My main issue was you saying that people go harder on Maguire as he’s not got a fancy sounding foreign name and that he’s in fact been our best defender this season. I think that’s gross exaggeration and a case of seeing what you want to see. I’ve seen Pogba, Rashford, Martial, Fred, even Bruno heavily vilified by segments of our fan base in social media and some even within the stadium. I’d be a liar if I said that some fans don’t go harder on British players but there’s also a number of fans who are extremely reluctant to criticise them so it works both ways. British players also often benefit from favouritism from the media, we heard it from Keane himself that Sky tried to give Maguire positive PR before the Liverpool game in which he had another nightmare performance, and you have people with big voices like Gary Neville who is often reluctant to criticise British players. So blaming the criticism of Maguire on his nationality and Mark Goldbridge (which seeks to be a bit of a theme in this thread) is inaccurate imo and lifts any accountability from Maguire.

 

[Gentile’s Ghost]

Didn’t things go a little “pear shaped” at the back end of last season after Maguire got injured?

 

[romufc]

I agree with 99% of that.

I know we're talking about completely different levels here but I have played RB and CB at lower regional semi-pro level in my late teens/early 20s and the difference it makes when you have a team working as a unit, working hard in-front of the back four and as you say, cutting off the passing lanes and angles is huge.

It's not even about thundering tackles or even necessarily winning possession back at times, it's about harassing opponents into making mistakes or into not being able to isolate players or find pockets of space. It's about making them rush their passes or have to go backwards. I really don't think 50% of our fanbase gets this, and that's why they are constantly confused when an array of expensive International CBs look poor in our side.

Of course, when you're under pressure, when the opposition are getting joy against you and finding space, then you do start making poor individual errors at CB because you're constantly pulled out of position and/or left second-guessing all of your choices. So one thing follows another, lack of organisation and work-rate from the midfield and forwards leads to more goals/chances conceded and then in-turn, the defenders compound that by losing confidence and making their own individual mistakes

Exactly. I mean its basic fundamentals of football whilst defending, put pressure on the player and cut the pass out to forward players.

I cannot tell you how many times we get exposed on a one two or a simple pass in between our MF and DF and then its very difficult as a CB when players are running at you with runners left and right.

When players are not confident, they start thinking, shall I drop or shall I press and then mistakes are made. If the midfield was solid and made sure the defence is not exposed.

https://zuishek.medium.com/whats-not-to-love-about-defending-30b6296acac

The above article is how Spurs defended against Liverpool. How many times did the ball get to the Spurs defence? Look at how a team can defend as a unit to stop the opponent.

 

[romufc]

Nothing worse than posters who in the absence of a convincing argument just pat each other on the back for thier own superior intellect. One of the most pathetic aspects of debate on here.

The idea that people only think Maguire is shit because of Goldbridge is laughable. If that's your conclusion you really don't deserve to be trying to play the superior intellect.

He's simply judged on his performances like everyone else.

Why is Maguire blamed more than the other defenders and CB's then? If Maguire is "shit" why does he start every game for England?