Yeah, just look at the numbers of "preppers" in the US! Obviously, because of the sheer size of the population you're going to get more wackjobs, but still..
Gun control
- Thread starter ukbob
- Start date
Yeah, just look at the numbers of "preppers" in the US! Obviously, because of the sheer size of the population you're going to get more wackjobs, but still..
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ce-on-special-offer-in-salute-to-donald-trump
That's some cynical shit to make your blood boil. Bastards.
That's some cynical shit to make your blood boil. Bastards.
I think that is a fair comparator - how much was spent keeping banks going / bailing out the motor industry?
When Labour came to power in UK in 97 they imposed a "windfall tax" on the power and utility companies who had been widely viewed as having been making excess profits since they were privatised and taken out of state control. They were threatened with accepting the windfall tax or they would potentially be wound up and re-nationalised. That windfall tax was allocated to the NHS and massively improved the state of healthcare in the country for over a decade.
The power and utility companies chose the lesser of two evils and accepted the windfall tax. For the gun manufacturers to accept a similar thing they would need to feel the cold wind of a threat from government. A total ban is not realistic, but loss of government revenue would be a powerful motivator.
My timescale is probably unrealistic as you would need to give them a year to amend their business model at least.
Well there are over 300,000 people in the gun industry. I think that number is the people directly involved like working in gun factories and gun shops. There is a sizable add on industry of gun accessories like safes, scopes, bags etc. That means maybe 350,000 lose their jobs. Lets say it costs $10,000 per person to retrain and support them for a while, that would cost $3.5 billion If they go with the buy back route of confiscation would probably cost in excess of $100 billion.
So the total cost would be somewhere a little north of $100 billion. A big number but spread over 5-10 years it would have next to no impact really.
They could decide to spend slightly less in their military (instead of spending as much as the other top 20 countries, to spend just as much as the other top 10 countries or so) for 5 years or so. Or the less preferable option, to sell those guns to other countries.
The economical problems of half a million of people losing their jobs is a more difficult matter though.
...
Anyway, just banning the sell of weapons from now on (without confiscating the old weapons) would solve half of the problem, considering that the majority of mass shooters are young people who have recently acquired guns. At the very least, that would make purchasing guns much more expensive, so less people will be able to acquire guns.
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Agree.
There have been kids protesting at the WH by lying down. I hope the grass roots outrage spurns a movement that really sways teh conversation on gun control.
The NRA has relevance in the United States because people still think owning guns is a normal thing. Even on here people claim to be 'gun enthusiasts' as if it's a benign hobby. There really is no legitimate reason for citizens to own instruments primarily designed to kill.
NRA Literally Funded Marksmanship Training For School Shooter
To be fair, without guns it's very hard for the people to form a militia when the British empire inevitably invades again.
I mean that's what the 2nd amendment is there for.
..
I mean that's what the 2nd amendment is there for.
..
Some polling since last weeks shooting shows how difficult it will be to change things significantly:
The NRA and GOP have managed to change the entire narrative on last weeks shooting about mental health and teh failings of the FBI.
- Only 28% said that the killings reflected inadequate gun control laws
The NRA and GOP have managed to change the entire narrative on last weeks shooting about mental health and teh failings of the FBI.
It’s official. The majority of Americans are insane.
I read a poll today that disagreed with the poll from yesterday regarding the matter from the day before.
LOL
Polls are wildly inaccurate for the most part. I think this one shows how effective certain
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/...ackage-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
School Shootings Put Teachers in New Role as Human Shields
It won't let me copy and paste any of the article, but it's good to see some of the thoughts I've had recently show up in something like the New York Times.
School Shootings Put Teachers in New Role as Human Shields
It won't let me copy and paste any of the article, but it's good to see some of the thoughts I've had recently show up in something like the New York Times.
"Defend ourselves, our family and our country"
Go join the military then!
"We do not invoke this historical symbol lightly"
Bastards.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/20/politics/donald-trump-bump-stocks/index.html
Trump moves to ban 'bump stocks'
This is just a memo and far from being a law, but still a step in right direction, I suppose.
Trump moves to ban 'bump stocks'
This is just a memo and far from being a law, but still a step in right direction, I suppose.
Any stats on polling done right after the Vegas shooting? BTW still odd they never found a motive on that one. Probably the most bizarre shooting that can't be attributed to any of the obvious or typical motives.
Good for him. Finally he's done something positive.
That's definitely how they and other teenagers are going to see it as well.
The GOP might very well be cutting off their nose to spite their face here.
This will royally come back to bite the GOP in the ass, since most of these kids will be ready to vote by 2020.
Yep. All but the freshmen will be voting age by then.
As usual I'm hopeful but sceptical. This has happened before with no changes. So as we see from Florida, this will be forgotten and relegated to theoretical arguments come election time in 2020.
Just reacting to incidents is not enough, there needs to be something more. At least in places where Dems have majority, we need a show leading piece of legislation to pace the way.
States like NY and California should take front and pass legislation that bans bump stocks sale and use within state lines and restrict magazine capacity. This would be the pilot bill that opens the door.
California already has banned bump stocks, detachable magazines for AR’s, hi cap magazines, etc.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_California
New York has done much of the same.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_York
A good friend of mine posted this utter drivel on his FB a couple of hours ago. Its getting a lot of likes and positive comments.
Post every mass shooting event, there's always talk about the need for stricter gun control laws or so called "common sense" gun laws. How can we come together as a collective society and fix this issue without stepping on people’s Constitutional rights? People need to set their emotions aside and think logically and objectively. Firstly, the only people these laws would affect are law-abiding citizens. Criminals have never and will never obey any laws. If laws are so great at preventing crimes, then how's it possible that murders still exist? How's it possible that people are still able to buy illegal drugs? How's it possible that people are still able to drive drunk?
Secondly, why are people consistently blaming the tool instead of the individual person? Guns are inanimate objects that don't shoot by itself. Blaming guns is the same as blaming cars for drunk drivers and blaming spoons and forks for the the obesity epidemic.
Thirdly, Politicians want to remove guns from every citizen, yet they are constantly being protected by people...with guns. Since when are their lives more important and valuable than the average citizen's life? Likewise, Politicians want more "gun free zones". Where have all these mass shootings happened?..in gun free zones. Well guess what, these gun free zones just make it easier for criminals to cause extensive harm to completely defenseless people. There's a reason why criminals specifically target gun free zones instead of police stations or military bases: they know they won't meet any resistance, thereby increasing their chances of succeeding. If good, law-abiding citizens are stripped of their guns, then only criminals will be left with them. And if guns are so evil, then why do our law enforcement carry them? The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. If institutions want to be gun free zones, then they are responsible and should be held accountable for providing adequate security measures in creating a safe environment for it's patrons.
Lastly and most importantly, guns have been around since this country's inception. However, mass shootings have only occurred within the last 25 years. So what has changed over the years?: Society....The degradation in the mentality, attitude, and core values of Society, the over-addiction to prescription drugs and electronics/social media, and the introduction of politics in families and schools. Thoughts and prayers won’t improve anything without proper action being taken. If we truly want to stop these mass shootings, then we need to identify and solve the core issues that have led to the problem:
1. Improper parenting, the breakdown of family structure, and lack of recognition/treatment of mental health:
-Parents no longer have an active role in their child's life. Kids are being raised by the internet/social media, instead of by their parents. Parents are trying to pay the role of their kid's best friend, rather than as a role as a responsible parent.
-Parents let their kids do whatever they want. Parents aren’t disciplining or spanking children due to the political stigma of it being considered "child abuse" or in fear of it hurting their feelings.
-Parents aren't instilling core life values: family values, respect for authority and others, responsibility, accountability/consequences for their actions, moral fiber, humbleness, or the value and importance of education.
-Kids are constantly given participation trophies, which doesn't prepare them for disappointment and rejection later on in life. They aren't taught how to accept and deal with failure.
-Kids aren't taught conflict resolution skills.
-Parents don’t recognize mental health issues in their kids. Or they don’t want to seek mental health treatment for their kids because they don’t want them to be considered “crazy”
-Instead, kids are taught to be highly sensitive/thin skinned, self-centered, and self-entitled brats in which society allows them to whine, cry, and throw public temper tantrums when they don't get what they want.
2. Too much exposure to violent video games/tv shows/movies, which desensitizes, normalizes, and glorifies violence. Isolation due to addiction to video games, making kids anti-social and/or loners.
3. Addiction to and dependency on electronics and internet/social media, which often leads to attention issues, pressure to fit in and be liked, depression, and/or narcissism.
4. Politics. Discipline and religion are no longer allowed in homes and schools. Kids are being brainwashed by the political views of their parents, teachers, favorite athletes, and public figures.
5. Alterations of mental state due to over-medication of prescription (psychotropics) drugs and misuse of opioids.
6. Overwhelming News media coverage of these crimes, which has led to copycat crimes. News media is revealing strategies used by the criminals.
7. Lack of mental health initiatives and programs
Creating new gun control laws is not the answer and is nothing but a band-aid fix to a larger issue. It makes people think and feel like they’re safe. But thinking/feeling safe is not the same as actually being safe. Instead, improve the above core issues and these crimes will decrease dramatically.
Secondly, why are people consistently blaming the tool instead of the individual person? Guns are inanimate objects that don't shoot by itself. Blaming guns is the same as blaming cars for drunk drivers and blaming spoons and forks for the the obesity epidemic.
Thirdly, Politicians want to remove guns from every citizen, yet they are constantly being protected by people...with guns. Since when are their lives more important and valuable than the average citizen's life? Likewise, Politicians want more "gun free zones". Where have all these mass shootings happened?..in gun free zones. Well guess what, these gun free zones just make it easier for criminals to cause extensive harm to completely defenseless people. There's a reason why criminals specifically target gun free zones instead of police stations or military bases: they know they won't meet any resistance, thereby increasing their chances of succeeding. If good, law-abiding citizens are stripped of their guns, then only criminals will be left with them. And if guns are so evil, then why do our law enforcement carry them? The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. If institutions want to be gun free zones, then they are responsible and should be held accountable for providing adequate security measures in creating a safe environment for it's patrons.
Lastly and most importantly, guns have been around since this country's inception. However, mass shootings have only occurred within the last 25 years. So what has changed over the years?: Society....The degradation in the mentality, attitude, and core values of Society, the over-addiction to prescription drugs and electronics/social media, and the introduction of politics in families and schools. Thoughts and prayers won’t improve anything without proper action being taken. If we truly want to stop these mass shootings, then we need to identify and solve the core issues that have led to the problem:
1. Improper parenting, the breakdown of family structure, and lack of recognition/treatment of mental health:
-Parents no longer have an active role in their child's life. Kids are being raised by the internet/social media, instead of by their parents. Parents are trying to pay the role of their kid's best friend, rather than as a role as a responsible parent.
-Parents let their kids do whatever they want. Parents aren’t disciplining or spanking children due to the political stigma of it being considered "child abuse" or in fear of it hurting their feelings.
-Parents aren't instilling core life values: family values, respect for authority and others, responsibility, accountability/consequences for their actions, moral fiber, humbleness, or the value and importance of education.
-Kids are constantly given participation trophies, which doesn't prepare them for disappointment and rejection later on in life. They aren't taught how to accept and deal with failure.
-Kids aren't taught conflict resolution skills.
-Parents don’t recognize mental health issues in their kids. Or they don’t want to seek mental health treatment for their kids because they don’t want them to be considered “crazy”
-Instead, kids are taught to be highly sensitive/thin skinned, self-centered, and self-entitled brats in which society allows them to whine, cry, and throw public temper tantrums when they don't get what they want.
2. Too much exposure to violent video games/tv shows/movies, which desensitizes, normalizes, and glorifies violence. Isolation due to addiction to video games, making kids anti-social and/or loners.
3. Addiction to and dependency on electronics and internet/social media, which often leads to attention issues, pressure to fit in and be liked, depression, and/or narcissism.
4. Politics. Discipline and religion are no longer allowed in homes and schools. Kids are being brainwashed by the political views of their parents, teachers, favorite athletes, and public figures.
5. Alterations of mental state due to over-medication of prescription (psychotropics) drugs and misuse of opioids.
6. Overwhelming News media coverage of these crimes, which has led to copycat crimes. News media is revealing strategies used by the criminals.
7. Lack of mental health initiatives and programs
Creating new gun control laws is not the answer and is nothing but a band-aid fix to a larger issue. It makes people think and feel like they’re safe. But thinking/feeling safe is not the same as actually being safe. Instead, improve the above core issues and these crimes will decrease dramatically.
That almost sounds like it came directly from the NRA handbook.
Well he is a NRA member. He is a smart professional guy. Both his parents are ER doctors, he is also well educated. I just don't get it at all. I was going to post something, then I thought about unfriending him. We get along great but our views on this subject are so far apart its upsetting.
Holy shit, this sounds just like the BS I heard from a former Trump aide, Jason Miller on CNN last night. Almost word for word with points 2 and 3
I personally wouldn't let that effect a friendship. People are multi faceted and it definitely doesn't mean he is a bad one. I just feel people are so misguided and don't realise that winning the debate is meaningless.
I always think the easiest tactic is to ask whether they think gun restrictions would save even one child's life, if they say no then direct them to statistics from Australia and the UK and if they say yes then it is the end of the conversation.
That's disgusting.