So true.
Gun control
- Thread starter ukbob
- Start date
So true.
Teachers can buy their own guns like most cops. 
I mean... I wouldn’t go telling the GOP that if you’re against this notion. They’ll have an “aha!” moment.Teachers can buy their own guns like most cops.
Just from experience from when I worked as a police officer we had assignments anything from high-risk football games to political protests and the majority of the people that went well and over the line, bloody confrontations, setting fire to objects etc were usually male under the age of 25. In the breifings before these events we sometimes got information and even pictures of the high-risk people and the majority of the "extreme" persons ( Active memebers of extreme groups, people who were known to have extreme views etc ) were young males under the age of 25. So in my opinion the risk is higher the younger the legal age of owning guns.
Because from my experience quite a few of these young extremists changed their ways as they got older and we had statistics confirming that. I'm not saying this would remove the problem but I'd bet anything that atleast one of the tragedies you listed would have never happened if the legal age to aquire guns was let's say 25.
Perhaps we should do the same with voting too, only after 25.
By then people have a bit of experience in life to make up their own mind instead of any propaganda that my come form the classroom or college.
Surely then military service needs to be 25.
If you can't vote for/against the president who's making you go to war it seems a bit wrong.
Being a teacher, the idea of arming them is absolutely ridiculous. I’m not American so it won’t happen to me, but I can imagine it. There are so many things wrong I don’t even know where to start. First of all, teachers are just that, teachers, not fecking soldiers. Second, what if a teacher doesn’t want to be armed? Would they get fired if they won’t? Are they expected to just engage in a firefight with some crazy-armed-to-the-teeth guy? And the moment one teacher gets armed, you can be sure there will be hordes of parents demanding that their childrens’ teachers gets armed as well. Lunacy.
Yeah that's a problem, looking back now I feel I was to young to be thrown in to the war at 18 ( I didn't think it back then though ). It was mandatory and my time came during the Yuoslavian civil war. So 25 for joining the army isn't a bad idea but problem is that it's hard to recruit when people have a job, family etc.
Edit: I was lucky and never experienced the action but alot of people my age came back with mental problems.
It's a catch 22 really.
That’s the phrase I was looking for but couldn’t think of when talking about arming or not arming teachers.
I don’t want teachers to be armed, but at the same time if a shooting were going down in my school, I’d much rather be armed than not.
I'm with you there.
It's fecking sad if it comes to that...
That’s the conundrum I’m in every day.
It really fecking is. But I’m at the point where when politicians bring up arming teachers (us for me) instead of enacting gun control, then part of me is like... “yeah I wanna be armed because I’d like to have a chance of going home that day” even though I know it sounds absurd and counterproductive. If they’re not gonna limit the guns out there, then at least give me and the kids in my room a fecking chance.
Maybe I’m losing it. Idk. I just know that I go to work now thinking “I hope today isn’t the day”.
When you put it like that, I don’t really blame you.
If they pass a bill that makes it legal for teachers to bring guns at school, would you do it?
You're not losing anything. You're put in a situation no one should be put in. Especially as a teacher.
Armed teachers 
Really incomprehensible, just can’t believe it is even being considered and talked about. Speechless.
Really incomprehensible, just can’t believe it is even being considered and talked about. Speechless.Armed teachers
Seriously, IF they gonna go this stupid road, at least arm them with Taser guns.
Any intelligent person can hide behind a door, under a desk, and tase the motherfecker as soon as he gets close.
Actually, fill the place with taser guns for security, just like fire extinguishers. "Use only in case of emergency". Better than fecking guns.
I appreciate it... and yes, I would. I’d go through the training and everything, whatever they required.
I appreciate it.
I don’t mate, it’s feckin School and anything to do with brutal force should be kept outside. Is there a country (here mostly interested in 3rd world states from Africa, which undergoing civil wars or smth) that has school teachers armed? Genuine question.This extract from that Reagan op-ed is interesting given his historic approach to mental health care:
Still, four lives were changed forever, and all by a Saturday-night special -- a cheaply made .22 caliber pistol -- purchased in a Dallas pawnshop by a young man with a history of mental disturbance.
Still, four lives were changed forever, and all by a Saturday-night special -- a cheaply made .22 caliber pistol -- purchased in a Dallas pawnshop by a young man with a history of mental disturbance.
Good god, Is this a strictly USA thing too?
Arming teachers is totally nuts, but if the alternative is 'thoughts and prayers' then I guess that many teachers will take this.
Obviously, there is a sane and efficient alternative that will get rid of the majority of homicide deaths and pretty much all of mass shootings, but it ain't gonna happen.
Obviously, there is a sane and efficient alternative that will get rid of the majority of homicide deaths and pretty much all of mass shootings, but it ain't gonna happen.
I think the course he goes on is attended by pilots from all over the world. They learn how to fight and disarm someone in close quarter using things like the windshield for leverage. If they do firearms training they learn to fire underarms and over their shoulders. Cockpits are tight environment and a pilot may have to fight off an assailant form behind. My neighbor actually has a law enforcement badge but he is only licensed inside the cock pit.
Exactly this.
I want to go home to my wife at the end of the day. Right now if a school shooting happens, my best hopes of doing that center on a wall and door he can shoot through and scissors to go hand to hand with. I’m not going to go down without a fight, I know that about myself. If the law eventually allows for that to mean I get to be armed instead of them disarmed, then I’ll be as protected as I can be under that law.
It’s shit but it’s the situation I live with at the moment.
You don't have to explain and defend yourself, there shouldn't even be a discussion about something like this but sadly there is one. When I first heard about arming teachers I was shocked but after thinking it through it's a situation that the government created which is very wrong and unfair. The ones that should explain themselves is the government and how they let the situation even get this far. You have nothing to be ashamed of.
I really appreciate that. I know to most it sounds crazy, but it is crazy. The whole situation is nuts.
I'm terrified sending my son to school. I just put it out of my head or I'd go crazy.
I feel for you buddy.
I've honestly thought about homeschooling but for the social aspect of it.
Another incident last week involving guns- a family murder/suicide. Just that the death count is 4, doesnt even make mainstream news.
Things like these almost seem to happen everyday and people are just immune to it nowadays
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ath-released-keego-harbor-killings/348469002/
Things like these almost seem to happen everyday and people are just immune to it nowadays
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ath-released-keego-harbor-killings/348469002/
That's far from the only one, there have been 32 mass shootings (4 or more wounded / killed) in the US so far. I think only the one has hit the mainstream news.
Yeah, I would have done the same if I was in your position. And do some gun training.
Best of luck!
Americans here posting like they're in a warzone.
That's messed up.
That's messed up.
The argument about what to do with all the existing guns....
Surely you could arrange a massive incentive scheme to hand in weapons ahead of a ban on all but fully licensed weapons for the sole use of hunting / game management.
This would only include smaller calibre hunting rifles and shotguns with restrictions on the shot cartridges available to the public.
it could work something like this..
6 months ahead of deadline - You receive 80% of retail value of any fire-arm handed in
3 months ahead of deadline - You receive 50% of retail value of any fire-arm handed in
1 month ahead of deadline - You receive a flat $50 per firearm handed in.
Throughout this period any "historic" weapons (e.g grandpa's WW2 pistol) to be permanently decommissioned for free
Deadline day - Final chance to hand in any fire-arm without a license- "fair-use" policy -
Post deadline day -
Fine of $10,000 dollars per fire-arm retained that does not meet fair use License.
Serious jail time for selling fire-arms
Ban the sale of replica fire-arms in anything other than plastic, so they can't be re-tooled into live weapons.
Any "historic" weapons from WW" etc to be totally commissioned at owners cost
Surely you could arrange a massive incentive scheme to hand in weapons ahead of a ban on all but fully licensed weapons for the sole use of hunting / game management.
This would only include smaller calibre hunting rifles and shotguns with restrictions on the shot cartridges available to the public.
it could work something like this..
6 months ahead of deadline - You receive 80% of retail value of any fire-arm handed in
3 months ahead of deadline - You receive 50% of retail value of any fire-arm handed in
1 month ahead of deadline - You receive a flat $50 per firearm handed in.
Throughout this period any "historic" weapons (e.g grandpa's WW2 pistol) to be permanently decommissioned for free
Deadline day - Final chance to hand in any fire-arm without a license- "fair-use" policy -
Post deadline day -
Fine of $10,000 dollars per fire-arm retained that does not meet fair use License.
Serious jail time for selling fire-arms
Ban the sale of replica fire-arms in anything other than plastic, so they can't be re-tooled into live weapons.
Any "historic" weapons from WW" etc to be totally commissioned at owners cost
...and Mexicans will pay for it!
Seriously though, I like the general idea, but where would the money come from? That's hundreds of millions of dollars we're talking about.
I hear you, but with the amount of weapons in the US (3-400m apparently), I'm guessing it would be far too expensive to do. Even if the lifes saved would be worth it.
As a teacher, I find the notion of safe rooms or arming teachers absolutely horrifying.
The fact that this is a real discussion in America and is seen as more realistic and easier to implement than simply installing stricter gun control or really, banning civilian gun ownership tells me that America is a very, very sick country right now. I love the place. I spent 2 months in New York over the summer, I've spent summers in California and traveled around the country quite a bit. I have loads of friends and family in the States, but I feel the country is fecked on this issue.
Yes, there are a ridiculous amount of guns in America and banning civilian gun ownership would be both extremely difficult and extremely controversial. There would be a sizeable minority who would probably be willing to die for their "right" to have guns. But most reasonable people would hand over their guns in a buy back scheme. But with every mass shooting, every suggestion at gun control, the amount of guns sold spikes, so rather than addressing the issue, America is currently making it worse. Ban Guns. Have massive fines and serious sentences for those found in violation. It will take decades before you have a normal country again and I'd guess that some blood will be shed as people revolt.
But it's a hell of a lot better than accepting that dozens of children will die in school shootings every year and people will die in shopping malls, cinemas, churches etc. Accepting that innocent people die, including children in school, because you want to play Rambo at the weekends doesn't cut it.
Gun culture and the acceptance that "these things happen" is an abhorrent stain on what is otherwise a great county.
The fact that this is a real discussion in America and is seen as more realistic and easier to implement than simply installing stricter gun control or really, banning civilian gun ownership tells me that America is a very, very sick country right now. I love the place. I spent 2 months in New York over the summer, I've spent summers in California and traveled around the country quite a bit. I have loads of friends and family in the States, but I feel the country is fecked on this issue.
Yes, there are a ridiculous amount of guns in America and banning civilian gun ownership would be both extremely difficult and extremely controversial. There would be a sizeable minority who would probably be willing to die for their "right" to have guns. But most reasonable people would hand over their guns in a buy back scheme. But with every mass shooting, every suggestion at gun control, the amount of guns sold spikes, so rather than addressing the issue, America is currently making it worse. Ban Guns. Have massive fines and serious sentences for those found in violation. It will take decades before you have a normal country again and I'd guess that some blood will be shed as people revolt.
But it's a hell of a lot better than accepting that dozens of children will die in school shootings every year and people will die in shopping malls, cinemas, churches etc. Accepting that innocent people die, including children in school, because you want to play Rambo at the weekends doesn't cut it.
Gun culture and the acceptance that "these things happen" is an abhorrent stain on what is otherwise a great county.
Plus the impact on the economy of wiping out the firearm industry. Neither of which should stand in the way of proper gun control, but will need figuring out.
It'd be interesting to see some reliable projections of what it would cost, especially in comparison with the bail outs of the banks and the motor industry.
It's part of the culture there to believe they may need to rise up against the government at any time - incredible paranoia exists in their culture. It's perverse really that the 'greatest country in the world' values the second amendment over the lives of little kids.
Yes it would cosy a lot and the fire-arms manufacturers would be made to pay for it as remuneration for the deaths / cost of healthcare and policing they have caused for the last 150 years.
This would be a one-off "windfall tax", backed with the explicit threat of removal of military contracts if they don't comply.
I think the NRA takes a lot of the heat when in reality they are the deeply in the pockets of the arms manufacturers and have been since they were set up after the civil war.
The Civil war proved a massive boost to these companies and put more weapons in the hands of private citizens than ever before. The absence of any large scale demilitarisation following the civil war lead to rapid economic expansion in the west, but it also hastened the genocidal destruction of indigenous peoples and created a culture of gun ownership and violence far greater than in other countries.
Undoubtedly a few gun companies would go to the wall under such a system, so maybe the government would have to decide on one key arms manufacturer to support for strategic reasons and the rest go to the wall.
In the UK there are a number of "bespoke" weapons manufacturers like Purdey, who concentrate solely on hunting market. You would end up with a few specialist suppliers like these and one key government supplier for the large military contracts.
It would have been a lot cheaper to do 150 years ago!