General Election 2024

[villain]

I think that is an unbalanced view that overlooks the successes we have had as well. I'm not trying to downplay anyone's lived experiences, because of course, but this idea the country is a nest of racists just itching to stick it to black and brown people, overlooks the real success that so many black and brown people have made of their lives here - thanks in part to the efforts made by these institutions and people, especially in the last 20-30 years. I'm not saying it is perfect but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater because Reform have picked up a few votes.

Define what ‘real success’ is? Above average salary, owning a business, owning a home?

Just because there are black & brown people who have been able to build a comfortable/rich life for themselves doesn’t take away from the truth.
And a lot of times, the people that are successful do so while facing barriers at every step to disadvantage them.

Millions of people voted Reform based on a singular ideology, ‘immigration = bad’. It’s intentional, and it shouldn’t be ignored, it can’t continue to be ignored quite frankly.

 

[decorativeed]

Same. I can imagine them getting in their heads about not being re-elected if they go too far left, despite just getting in and having 4 years to do whatever they want.

Yep - that's the fear. Repeating the same mistakes the Democrats made under Obama that gave the world Trump's nightmarish vision of the United States of MAGA.

 

[rimaldo]

He has so much hate in him he can barely even hide it anymore.

he just wants to know whether to hate the young, the old, or those in the middle. alongside all the foreigns and different races.

 

[Penna]

It's a sad goodbye to Michael Fabricant's splendidly-unrealistic wig.

 

[RedSky]

It's a sad goodbye to Michael Fabricant's splendidly-unrealistic wig.

Have we got rid of that thunder prick? Brilliant!

 

[nickm]

The thread is moving too quickly to keep up whilst at work, but all the people with the attitude of essentially “don’t look beneath the surface, enjoy the massive Labour majority and ask no questions” are an example of exactly why the left never get anywhere meaningful and the Overton Window moves ever to the right.

Labour will now spend all their time trying to appease the right, get feck all done, and wonder why they get spanked again in 5 years when Toreform have unified and taken back all the right voters to a single party.

Refusing to look at voter share and the actual reasons behind these results is just buying your head in the sand. This is a massive majority, yes, cool, but it’s not because of any movement of support towards Labour.

The best thing they could do now would be to actually try and enact meaningful change and improve people’s lives, giving them pause for thought come next election. But they won’t; they’ll talk about a lack of magic money trees and needing to make sure they don’t alienate the racist piece of shit voters who will never actually get behind them.

"People should vote tactically if they want Labour to win"

*Millions of people vote tactically*.

"How can labour claim a mandate if it got less than 40% of the vote? There is no enthusiasm here".

(Seen on twitter, too painful to embed).

 

[Raven]

Why is the idea that the NHS system needs huge reform or even dismantling considered a controversial policy?

People seem to mistake the idea that the NHS is synonymous with Universal healthcare free at point of use.

It's not. NHS is in itself an implementation of Universal healthcare, one that met the needs of the 1940's and 50's when it was built. It is a very unique, decentralized and distributed system that is very different from almost every other developed countries universal healthcare system.

There is nothing wrong, or even controversial, to say that, "The NHS in its current state is not doing a good job at providing universal healthcare. Perhaps we need to relook at our universal healthcare model and look for inspiration from other countries in Europe that have far more successful models that offer better outcomes and value and also is free at point of use."

Corbyn offered plenty of meaningful, left wing, reforms to the NHS under his leadership that would have improved the lives of millions without the need to sell out the NHS. Healthcare is a key monopoly that should have nothing to do with profits.

 

[decorativeed]

I think a lot of people voted for reform because there fed up with the status quo. I didn't vote in this election because there doesn't seem to be anyone I trust in.

We will have a decade of Labour government, and when people get fed up with them it will be back to the tories again. Its just the same old shit.

That's the spirit that brings about change.

 

[Deleted 20801]

he just wants to know whether to hate the young, the old, or those in the middle. alongside all the foreigns and different races.

His girlfriend is sobbing in a corner while Solius paces around the room, screaming, as he upends random bits of furniture to look for more "data".

 

[Solius]

His girlfriend is sobbing in a corner while Solius paces around the room, screaming, as he upends random bits of furniture to look for more "data".

I will find it.

 

[RedC]

That's awful some people are so ignorant. I hope you didn't give her any.

I gave her a decent amount in exchange for her continuing to kick me in the balls.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

18 votes.

Looking at wikipedia, that's coming off a Tory majority of 19000 in a seat that had been held by Conservatives since 1880.

Really brings home the risky game being played by people who refused to vote as some sort of protest. Every vote counts, even in seats where it looks like they might not.

 

[Grinner]

Count Binface got his best ever finish...made up for him.

 

[Smores]

"People should vote tactically if they want Labour to win"

*Millions of people vote tactically*.

"How can labour claim a mandate if it got less than 40% of the vote? There is no enthusiasm here".

(Seen on twitter, too painful to embed).

You think Labours vote share is sub 40% because people voted Lib Dem tactically? Have we the data to back that up?

 

[Wibble]

I think a lot of people voted for reform because there fed up with the status quo. I didn't vote in this election because there doesn't seem to be anyone I trust in.

We will have a decade of Labour government, and when people get fed up with them it will be back to the tories again. Its just the same old shit.

I think that people voted Reform because they are despicable racist cnuts.

 

[DavelinaJolie]

Great news to wake up to, Green candidate kicking out the Labour MP in my area and Tories getting wiped out.

Starmer needs to be careful despite the big win there are a number of seats where the vote share has gone down by big margins (including his own) and some where they won by the skin of their teeth. If things don't change under his term i can see the Tories winning back the reform voters and the Labour voters who voted just to get rid of them. Can't say I'm optimistic given the pre election campaign he has run.

They really need to deliver some degree of positive change to peoples' lives, and keep the division and drama out of the party for this upcoming term. I'm not a big fan of him or his platform, but if they can keep it on the straight and narrow without infighting, and keeping their noses clean he might have a chance.

If theres a whiff of the type of shit the Tories have been up to for years, it'll be "They're all the same" and those narrow wins turn to losses fairly easy.

 

[africanspur]

It'd be quite bad for all the people who don't want to die when they get sick tbf.

This is a a bit of a weird response really. Are the only options NHS or mad max style society with no healthcare at all?

 

[Wibble]

I think many people need to accept that this is what this country really is, black and brown people have been saying it for decades.

This is a country built on racist institutions, and full of racists who would like to uphold them, including your family members, work colleagues, friends etc.

Maybe then we can look at change, but we can’t pretend it’s not true forever.

Spot on. I'm not racist I'm just feeling ignored.

Yeah. Right.

 

[Grinner]

Distinct lack of blue in London other than Chingford of course

 

[Giggsyking]

ship ship ship. what a piece of fine art. Coming from someone who almost lost his seat to a 23 years old unknown young lady standing as independent.

 

[Penna]

Have we got rid of that thunder prick? Brilliant!

Yes, and Liam Fox and Therese Coffey.

 

[rimaldo]

I think that people voted Reform because they are despicable racist cnuts.

there’s definitely more than a small element of that. i refuse to believe that there aren’t some fundamentally good people in among them, that have just lost their way with being fed bile by the likes of murdoch. 14% of voters feels like a lot more dickheads than the dickhead to normal ratio of people i usually meet.

 

[nickm]

You think Labours vote share is sub 40% because people voted Lib Dem tactically? Have we the data to back that up?

Responding to people who are claiming that the vote share is sub 40 because people "weren't enthusiastic".

 

[Pexbo]

Responding to people who are claiming that the vote share is sub 40 because people "weren't enthusiastic".

And the low turnout? Was that tactical too?

 

[Simbo]

On the face of it, amazing. And usually I try to be optimistic. The headline figure of today is getting the scum out and that's done. Some big twats gone.

But the labour vote share has barely increased (approx 2%), as Starmer has alienated big portions of his base. He will doubtless still see this as a massive endorsement of his tactics and manifesto.

The lib dems have gained about 50 seats on less than a 1% increase in vote share. 1 in every 7 votes to reform.

A quarter of all votes gone to Reform, Green and independents, winning exactly 2% of seats (though a few still waiting to be declared). Farce.

On the other hand I guess, Green Party with a big increase in both vote share and seats.

Whilst the short term result has been good news for Labour - when the dust settles it’s hardly been the success story that’s being made out

despite one of the worst governments in memory, they’ve barely added any votes (1% more share) Labour can count themselves very lucky that Farage declared when he did. If he had stayed in the wilderness, we’d be looking at a hung parliament.

How Starmer has managed to barely attract the electorate given what’s happened speaks volumes really.

Labour will hope Farage stays around to split the right vote, but when he goes, Labour are back to being the opposition.

Of course it matters, but I think its at least slightly disingenuous to put too much stock in vote share when given our parliamentary system, where the only thing that objectively matters is seats won. Parties don't put any money or effort into seats where they have little chance. Similarly millions of voters vote tactically, not for their preferred party.

Same goes for everyone of course, except maybe reform with all their dodgy donations, foreign help and just being out to make noise.

A lot of Reform's best results are in deprived, largely ignored ex-fishing towns on the east coast and other assorted post-industrial wastelands. There seems to be a large and growing working class element to their support.

That, but mainly the retirement class. Would love to see comparative age demographics.

 

[Rado_N]

"People should vote tactically if they want Labour to win"

*Millions of people vote tactically*.

"How can labour claim a mandate if it got less than 40% of the vote? There is no enthusiasm here".

(Seen on twitter, too painful to embed).

Yes, lots of people tactically voted reform who would otherwise vote left leaning parties. Sure.

 

[AfonsoAlves]

Corbyn offered plenty of meaningful, left wing, reforms to the NHS under his leadership that would have improved the lives of millions without the need to sell out the NHS. Healthcare is a key monopoly that should have nothing to do with profits.

where did I mention anything about profit?

you have plenty of non profit free universal healthcare systems in Europe that don’t work off the NHS model

 

[711]

Is there any data on votes by age group?

Someone like Stats for Lefties will be along soon, they love categorising people by age, race, sex, education, where they live, their occupation and their parent's occupation.

 

[Raven]

there’s definitely more than a small element of that. i refuse to believe that there aren’t some fundamentally good people in among them, that have just lost their way with being fed bile by the likes of murdoch. 14% of voters feels like a lot more dickheads than the dickhead to normal ratio of people i usually meet.

That's very lucky for you. I would say 14% is suspiciously low.

 

[africanspur]

Responding to people who are claiming that the vote share is sub 40 because people "weren't enthusiastic".

Anecdotal of course but in my own life, almost none of the traditional labour voters voted Labour in this election. This includes some Labour members who have been members for decades, ex counsellors, people who've canvassed for them in every election. The few who did did so out of a sense of desperation with the tories.

On here, the overwhelming feeling is voting against the Tories, as opposed to being excited or enthusiastic about labour.

Someone posted a link to a poll on here a day or two ago where the biggest reason by far given for voting for Labour was to get rid of the tories.

None of that screams enthusiasm to me.

 

[Skills]

I think many people need to accept that this is what this country really is, black and brown people have been saying it for decades.

This is a country built on racist institutions, and full of racists who would like to uphold them, including your family members, work colleagues, friends etc.

Maybe then we can look at change, but we can’t pretend it’s not true forever.

Yup

 

[Giggsyking]

The only possible way I could be wrong is if the person I’m talking to is also an experienced human rights lawyer. And I’m willing to bet they aren’t. So my certainty is justified.

Lawyer/ slime ball politician vs a volunteer healthcare professional in refugee camps in war zones? how are you going to measure that? its subjective.

 

[Raven]

where did I mention anything about profit?

you have plenty of non profit free universal healthcare systems in Europe that don’t work off the NHS model

That's what these red Tories are talking about.

What reforms would you like to see?

 

[Revan]

Corbyn offered plenty of meaningful, left wing, reforms to the NHS under his leadership that would have improved the lives of millions without the need to sell out the NHS. Healthcare is a key monopoly that should have nothing to do with profits.

From living in different countries, my feeling is that a public-private sector is probably the best. I was ok with Germany's public-private healthcare, while it has its own problems, I think it worked quite well. I loved Switzerland's (private) but I do not think it is easy to translate the system of a small rich country to a large less rich one. I did not like the Italy's one, it is better than UK's for small things (e.g., visiting your family doctor) but I had mixed experience for more serious stuff (great first class treatment for my brother who had a life-threatening infection, but abhorrent for my father who had cancer). I hated US one, while it was great personally for me (top-tier health insurance), if you have no insurance you're literally left to die or need to go into massive debts.

I have no idea what is the best, but I am not sure if a fully public sector works, at least not without making massive concessions in other parts (lowering the budget somewhere else, or drastically increasing the income tax*). I think NHS needs a fundamental change, not patching it. I do not think fully private is a solution (at least not for many), and even if it is, it needs to be extremely regulated, unlike in the US. I am also not sure if fully public is a good solution though.

* I do not think that is also a solution cause it is already quite high. Taxing more the super rich while appealing in nature IMO does not work simply cause then they leave for Monaco. Increasing the corporate tax looks the best bet to me, I do not see much arguments against it except companies finding loopholes. Closing the loopholes when it comes to taxing should be one of the priorities for any government, be it right, left or center.

 

[TheGame]

Did that prick Desmond Swayne win? What about the other Tory cnut who blocked the upskirting ban?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Lawyer/ slime ball politician vs a volunteer healthcare professional in refugee camps in war zones? how are you going to measure that? its subjective.

Sorry, you've lost me. Why do you keep mentioning "volunteer healthcare professional in refugee camps in war zones"? And what has it got to do with the topic being discussed in the post you quoted?

 

[Longshanks]

He got 'demolished' while winning more votes for Labour than they got yesterday.

Yeah but he got less votes than the Tories both times so lost. That's the way elections work. A bit like comparing points tallies across season utterly pointless.

 

[Deleted 20801]

there’s definitely more than a small element of that. i refuse to believe that there aren’t some fundamentally good people in among them, that have just lost their way with being fed bile by the likes of murdoch. 14% of voters feels like a lot more dickheads than the dickhead to normal ratio of people i usually meet.

There definitely are people who are misled by media and proximity, who are ignorant but not malicious, unlike the outright racists and degenerates who vote knowingly. Hopefully they find their way out of it and make up for playing a part in furthering a bad cause.

 

[Skills]

From living in different countries, my feeling is that a public-private sector is probably the best. I was ok with Germany's public-private healthcare, while it has its own problems, I think it worked quite well. I loved Switzerland's (private) but I do not think it is easy to translate the system of a small rich country to a large less rich one. I did not like the Italy's one, it is better than UK's for small things (e.g., visiting your family doctor) but I had mixed experience for more serious stuff (great first class treatment for my brother who had a life-threatening infection, but abhorrent for my father who had cancer). I hated US one, while it was great personally for me (top-tier health insurance), if you have no insurance you're literally left to die or need to go into massive debts.

I have no idea what is the best, but I am not sure if a fully public sector works, at least not without making massive concessions in other parts (lowering the budget somewhere else, or drastically increasing the income tax). I think NHS needs a fundamental change, not patching it. I do not think fully private is a solution (at least not for many), and even if it is, it needs to be extremely regulated, unlike in the US. I am also not sure if fully public is a good solution though.

Most of us have lived with a functional public healthcare system. It existed prior to 2010 in this exact country.

 

[Smores]

Responding to people who are claiming that the vote share is sub 40 because people "weren't enthusiastic".

Yeah but where is the data that claims millions who would have voted Labour went Lib Dems tactically?

Looking at some of the key seats they won from Tory cabinet members, more Tory to Lib happened than Lab to Lib. I doubt there's even 50k votes total that voted tactically in the Lib Dem won seats.

Turn out down 7.6% overall and Labour only getting 34%, 20% of the electorate demonstrably shows it being a low enthusiasm election. All sorts of reasons for that but anyone claiming huge enthusiasm based on the data is just being contrarian or needlessly defensive.