Final | Spain vs England

[Fortitude]

The amount of 'pull something magical out of thin air' potential match winners England have is actually insane:

Kane
Saka
Foden
Bellingham
Mainoo
Rice

Palmer
Watkins (evidently)
Possibly Toney as well

Spain have:
Rodri
Yamal
Olmo

With Williams propping that up to a lesser degree.

The whole starting 6 in midfield and attack for England have scored wonder goals from nothing the season just gone, and even Kane in this horrendous state, has it in him to crack one in from 25 yards out, if he gets the opportunity.

You've got Spain's collective class with smatterings of individual brilliance verses England's unpredictable lot, who have it in them to score goals out of very little. Finals of majors don't typically tend to be so extreme in disparity. As one off occasion, this has so many unpredictable elements to it. I doubt Spain will underestimate the chaos and unpredictability elements of having so many potential match winners up against them, but I don't think it will be a cagey game.

 

[giorno]

I feel they have absolute elite talent in Rodri and the 2 wingers, however if you look at it, England is stacked with top class players in every position, so what's the reason Spain feel like such favourites?

The reason is you are overrating english players and underrating the spanish. On what basis are Guehi, Stones, Trippier, Pickford and Mainoo top class players but Laporte, Le Normand, Carvajal and Fabian Ruiz are not? I mean, only area of the pitch where England do have better players overall - individually - is the attack and Kane and Bellingham look knackered, Foden has yet to have a single game for England that was more than "good", and Southgate will play all 3 at least 80 minutes each so the bench options might be less relevant. Oh, and Spain's attackers complement each other much better than England's guys do

 

[giorno]

The amount of 'pull something magical out of thin air' potential match winners England have is actually insane:

Kane
Saka
Foden
Bellingham
Mainoo
Rice

Palmer
Watkins (evidently)
Possibly Toney as well

Spain have:
Rodri
Yamal
Olmo

With Williams propping that up to a lesser degree.

Yeah, no. You're doing the thing. The "look how much more talent england have" - they don't. It's one game, *more* spanish players have proven capable of making something happen from nothing than england's at this tournament(Fabian, Merino, Nico, Rodri, Lamine Yamal, Dani Olmo vs Saka, Jude, Kane and Watkins). They're fitter > in better form > more capable of a moment of brilliance

This, along with the likely possibility that Southgate will insist on a lineup that limits at least one of his game winners(and wait too long to use the subs), is why Spain are favourites and will likely win

 

[Judas]

Why does this feel a much bigger deal than 3 years ago against Italy? That was our first final for 50 plus years, but for some reason this game feels 10 times as huge for me, and I'm not sure why. Does anyone else feel this?

Probably because, to me anyway, it feels like our moment. It didn't feel real last time, I couldn't believe we were in the final. This time, it feels right. That last Euros was just a fun ride, feels a lot more serious now.

 

[Fortitude]

Yeah, no. You're doing the thing. The "look how much more talent england have" - they don't. It's one game, *more* spanish players have proven capable of making something happen from nothing than england's at this tournament(Fabian, Merino, Nico, Rodri, Lamine Yamal, Dani Olmo vs Saka, Jude, Kane and Watkins). They're fitter > in better form > more capable of a moment of brilliance

This, along with the likely possibility that Southgate will insist on a lineup that limits at least one of his game winners(and wait too long to use the subs), is why Spain are favourites and will likely win

I’m not doing anything. Over the course of the season gone by, each of those players has pulled a rabbit out of the hat for their clubs, some for country. It’s a vast array of improbable scorers, who have it in them to have a game-changing moment.

I think the difference in a final is this is where you leave everything you have left in the tank on the pitch - it will be interesting to see if the speculative attempts at goal are considerably higher than they have been at any other time in the tournament for England. I also think England won’t commit to attacks so individuals will be more encouraged to have a go themselves.

Spain are the favourites because they’ve played the best football and simply look like champions elect going into the final. I don’t think many English fans would be surprised by a Spanish win. Still, there are paths to victory for England, and a random moment of individual brilliance is definitely one of them. The team is factually brimming with it even if it hasn’t been overabundant to this point in time.

 

[Buster15]

Not really sure how I am feeling about tonight game.
There is so much build up and expectation now England are in the final that I am appreciative of a let down and disappointment.

On the other hand, England come and are capable of winning it.
So I just feel like.... let's wait and see what happens.

 

[redcucumber]

I’m not doing anything. Over the course of the season gone by, each of those players has pulled a rabbit out of the hat for their clubs, some for country. It’s a vast array of improbable scorers, who have it in them to have a game-changing moment.

I think the difference in a final is this is where you leave everything you have left in the tank on the pitch - it will be interesting to see if the speculative attempts at goal are considerably higher than they have been at any other time in the tournament for England. I also think England won’t commit to attacks so individuals will be more encouraged to have a go themselves.

Spain are the favourites because they’ve played the best football and simply look like champions elect going into the final. I don’t think many English fans would be surprised by a Spanish win. Still, there are paths to victory for England, and a random moment of individual brilliance is definitely one of them. The team is factually brimming with it even if it hasn’t been overabundant to this point in time.

Giorno seems to be basing it on what's happened within the confines of the tournament. I don't get that. England's entire campaign has been playing (generally) shit but having the quality to find a way through. Form of the tournament has Spain as clear favourites but would anyone be surprised if England pull another rabbit out of the hat and win?

 

[jojojo]

Why does this feel a much bigger deal than 3 years ago against Italy? That was our first final for 50 plus years, but for some reason this game feels 10 times as huge for me, and I'm not sure why. Does anyone else feel this?

I think it's the timing. That one was coming just as COVID restrictions were being lifted. It felt more like a giant end of term party than a football tournament.

When we were suddenly in the final back then, it all felt so unexpected that it was kind of not real - just another party night . This time it's been more of a sporting tournament rollercoaster thing. Just my version.

 

[Captmfla]

Yamal is very young and may make mistakes. The Spain squad is not as good as England on paper.

But football is round so anything goes.

England needs to go all out to win. Not sit back and wait like against Italy in Euro 2020.

 

[Hester_manc]

The amount of 'pull something magical out of thin air' potential match winners England have is actually insane:

Kane
Saka
Foden
Bellingham
Mainoo
Rice

Palmer
Watkins (evidently)
Possibly Toney as well

Spain have:
Rodri
Yamal
Olmo

With Williams propping that up to a lesser degree.

The whole starting 6 in midfield and attack for England have scored wonder goals from nothing the season just gone, and even Kane in this horrendous state, has it in him to crack one in from 25 yards out, if he gets the opportunity.

You've got Spain's collective class with smatterings of individual brilliance verses England's unpredictable lot, who have it in them to score goals out of very little. Finals of majors don't typically tend to be so extreme in disparity. As one off occasion, this has so many unpredictable elements to it. I doubt Spain will underestimate the chaos and unpredictability elements of having so many potential match winners up against them, but I don't think it will be a cagey game.

So you can highlight players like Watkins, Toney and Rice as match winners but you can only find 3 Spanish players? It's either arrogance or a lack of realism.

You also lack Spanish players such as:
- Nico Williams
- Morata
- Ruiz
- Ferran Torres

And you mention Williams as "a lesser degree", but think that Rice, Mainoo, Toney and Watkins are better at been match winners??

 

[redcucumber]

So you can highlight players like Watkins, Toney and Rice as match winners but you can only find 3 Spanish players? It's either arrogance or a lack of realism.

You also lack Spanish players such as:
- Nico Williams
- Morata
- Ruiz
- Ferran Torres

And you mention Williams as "a lesser degree", but think that Rice, Mainoo, Toney and Watkins are better at been match winners??

Morata and Ferran Torres? Scraping the bottom of the barrel a touch. Is Fabian Ruiz known for grasping the moment? Fair enough if so.

 

[cpresc]

Either way, I think it’s gonna be an absolute banger of a game

 

[giorno]

I’m not doing anything. Over the course of the season gone by, each of those players has pulled a rabbit out of the hat for their clubs, some for country. It’s a vast array of improbable scorers, who have it in them to have a game-changing moment.

That is equally true of Spain

 

[Fortitude]

Giorno seems to be basing it on what's happened within the confines of the tournament. I don't get that. England's entire campaign has been playing (generally) shit but having the quality to find a way through. Form of the tournament has Spain as clear favourites but would anyone be surprised if England pull another rabbit out of the hat and win?

Yeah, and if ever there's a time to not do that, it's a final, where everything is going to be left on the pitch.

 

[Fortitude]

So you can highlight players like Watkins, Toney and Rice as match winners but you can only find 3 Spanish players? It's either arrogance or a lack of realism.

You also lack Spanish players such as:
- Nico Williams
- Morata
- Ruiz
- Ferran Torres

And you mention Williams as "a lesser degree", but think that Rice, Mainoo, Toney and Watkins are better at been match winners??

What was confusing in what was posted? There are big game changers and lesser ones - those expected to do something special, and those who may.

If you can interpret that as arrogance then you have a very interesting way of processing what you read and converting it into something entirely different.

 

[giorno]

Morata and Ferran Torres? Scraping the bottom of the barrel a touch. Is Fabian Ruiz known for grasping the moment? Fair enough if so.

As opposed to Rice, Mainoo and Toney? Spain's right back scored the winner in a CL final a month ago. Their backup striker won a CL semifinal against Harry Kane's team

 

[Malons]

If United were not favourites for a final, but fans tried to be optimistic by pointing to potential game changers in our team, nobody should cite "arrogance" unless they also named all the game changers on the other side.

There's a desperation to create an "arrogant England fans" narrative around everything.

"God save the King? The English think they own God now. Why are they not singing about saving the Spanish King? Are they proud of that xenophobia?"

 

[redcucumber]

As opposed to Rice, Mainoo and Toney? Spain's right back scored the winner in a CL final a month ago. Their backup striker won a CL semifinal against Harry Kane's team

All three of whom we've seen excel in the PL and score bangers. Morata and Ferran Torres could barely muster up a fart between them. Carvajal is more of a threat. Can see him causing problems.

 

[DJ_21]

Very tough game tonight. I just can’t see us winning but anything can happen. People wrote us of in the Fa cup final against city and I think we was less likely to win that then England tonight… I hope it’s a decent game and everyone behaves them selfs. I watch that documentary on Netflix ‘ the attack on Wembley’ when we played Italy in the final. That was awful. Hoping for nothing like that again tonight.

 

[Fortitude]

That is equally true of Spain

Not in direct comparison - their clearly at an advantage as a cohesive unit, though, which is the counter balance.

 

[TrebleChamp99]

England are the ITV2 Love Island X Factor toxic positivity of the international game.

Makes it very hard to support us and can't help but hope we fail.

The other side of it is it would be amazing and one the best things we've witnessed in the country.

Hard to know how to feel.

 

[Gfooty]

What was confusing in what was posted? There are big game changers and lesser ones - those expected to do something special, and those who may.

If you can interpret that as arrogance then you have a very interesting way of processing what you read and converting it into something entirely different.

Rice is indeed a big game changer as we saw in the Holland game. Just in a negative way.

 

[giorno]

Not in direct comparison - their clearly at an advantage as a cohesive unit, though, which is the counter balance.

In a direct comparison, yes, especially so when you factor in form and team cohesion. England have the edge, only just, when you factor in the benches

Spain is just as likely to win off of individual talent as England. It already got them past Germany and France

 

[SilentWitness]

today i feel spanish

you can call me testigo silencioso

 

[TrebleChamp99]

In a direct comparison, yes, especially so when you factor in form and team cohesion. England have the edge, only just, when you factor in the benches

Spain is just as likely to win off of individual talent as England. It already got them past Germany and France

England were favourites going in , no one had Spain.

 

[giggs-beckham]

England are the ITV2 Love Island X Factor toxic positivity of the international game.

Makes it very hard to support us and can't help but hope we fail.

The other side of it is it would be amazing and one the best things we've witnessed in the country.

Hard to know how to feel.

Odd

 

[moses]

The amount of 'pull something magical out of thin air' potential match winners England have is actually insane:

Kane
Saka
Foden
Bellingham
Mainoo
Rice

Fabian Ruiz has scored more than 4 of them combined and didn't make it into your match winners ?

But Rice who hasn't put in a solid 90 mins has.

You're doing it again folks.

 

[jojojo]

today i feel spanish

you can call me testigo silencioso

You know I used to watch episodes of that series off and on for twenty years before I realised what they were singing in the opening credits

However, today I have a split personality. This afternoon I'm Spanish then tonight I'm English.

Tapas and chips day.

 

[moses]

I feel they have absolute elite talent in Rodri and the 2 wingers, however if you look at it, England is stacked with top class players in every position, so what's the reason Spain feel like such favourites?

People have seen both sides playing football.

 

[Hester_manc]

What was confusing in what was posted? There are big game changers and lesser ones - those expected to do something special, and those who may.

If you can interpret that as arrogance then you have a very interesting way of processing what you read and converting it into something entirely different.

That you can only find 3 spanish players in a team that is among the best national teams in the world. But you can easily find half a team in the English national team. It seems strange and not a real and realistic assessment of the strength of the two national teams.

 

[Giggsyking]

 

[Stookie]

As an England fan I’m proud they’ve got there. In years gone by they would have choked against one of those earlier opponents for sure. Or not even got out of the group. So for me, England have to spoil the game as they have done previously if they start trying to play decent football then Spain will tear them apart. They’re just better with the ball. I’d be happy with a dull England win. Just not penalties, my heart can’t take them. All that being said, Spain have without doubt been the best team in it so far, so if they did win it then that’s only fair and a win for good football. But cmon England.

 

[Malons]

That you can only find 3 spanish players in a team that is among the best national teams in the world. But you can easily find half a team in the English national team. It seems strange and not a real and realistic assessment of the strength of the two national teams.

Why is suddenly a realistic assessment something we're demanding from fans in the build up to a game?

You're in for a shock when you discover fans sing songs during matches that egregiously overlook the positive aspects of the opposition.

 

[Malons]

Like two pissholes in the snow

 

[SilentWitness]

You know I used to watch episodes of that series off and on for twenty years before I realised what they were singing in the opening credits

However, today I have a split personality. This afternoon I'm Spanish then tonight I'm English.

Tapas and chips day.

good old Latin.

 

[Judas]

England are the ITV2 Love Island X Factor toxic positivity of the international game.

Makes it very hard to support us and can't help but hope we fail.

The other side of it is it would be amazing and one the best things we've witnessed in the country.

Hard to know how to feel.

Nope, not really. All these self loathing English people are weird.

If you think it would be amazing, just bloody enjoy it? Your weird Love Island etc. analogy I can't even make sense of. Since when were those things toxic positivity? Also toxic positivity

 

[Redlambs]

England are the ITV2 Love Island X Factor toxic positivity of the international game.

Makes it very hard to support us and can't help but hope we fail.

The other side of it is it would be amazing and one the best things we've witnessed in the country.

Hard to know how to feel.

You've started early!

Might want to ease off, your brain is already being pickled mate. You'll be a weeping mess on the floor by kick off.

 

[Malons]

The irony is the whole anti-England thing is dripping in patronising xenophobia and always has been. As if other fans from other countries simply turn up to have a nice time, not really understand what's going on, but just want to enjoy themselves

That England are the 'main character' and the whole of Europe wants them to lose every game because even if England play a traditional rival of theirs, hating England will trump their silly little regional squabble. Because they're only foreign so don't really understand rivalries properly.

Main character syndrome by proxy the England haters bestow on the national team, often exposes some pretty problematic attitudes towards those from other countries who don't build their footballing identity around what people think of the England team.

 

[Hectic]

The irony is the whole anti-England thing is dripping in patronising xenophobia and always has been. As if other fans from other countries simply turn up to have a nice time, not really understand what's going on, but just want to enjoy themselves

That England are the 'main character' and the whole of Europe wants them to lose every game because even if England play a traditional rival of theirs, hating England will trump their silly little regional squabble. Because they're only foreign so don't really understand rivalries properly.

Main character syndrome by proxy the England haters bestow on the national team, often exposes some pretty problematic attitudes towards those from other countries who don't build their footballing identity around what people of the England team.

It's also so inevitable and pathetic. You can bet if England lose there will be a "Let's all laugh at England" thread up within 5 seconds of the result.

 

[Hectic]

Main character syndrome by proxy the England haters bestow on the national team, often exposes some pretty problematic attitudes towards those from other countries who don't build their footballing identity around what people think of the England team.

This reads like it was made by a fat sun-baked AI that was trained by reading Stella and Greggs forums.