F1 2024 Season

laughtersassassin said:
It's not what people want to hear on but with the rules the penalties given where correct.

The rules where also agreed with input from the drivers/GDPA.

Also can't remember what race it was but there was also a race earlier this season when Norris forced Max off making Max overtake outside track limits and Max was made to hand the place back despite being forced wide.
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This is pretty much it, getting to the apex meant Max had the right to the corner, even though he had no intention of actually making it round without leaving the track. The main difference with the Russell incident seems to that he was overtaking.

If we don't want to see drivers bombing the apex with little interest in making a corner, the rules need to be changed to stop rewarding it as a tactic. If you can't make a corner yourself, then whoever you forced off shouldn't be penalised for that.
 
hobbers said:
I wouldnt be. It doesn't matter if you're defending or attacking, if you end up on the outside of a very acute corner/hairpin, like turn 1 and 12 in COTA, turn 3 and 4 in Austria etc, then you have to expect to be forced to back out. And if you dont submit, into the gravel you go. That's just racing. They have to do better to not be on the outside.

If people dont like that, petition the FIA to stop making F1 cars so stupidly long and wide.
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Agree, if people make a big enough error they should end up in the gravel, it's annoying watch people completely miss corners and just drive on unimpeded because there are so many run offs now

Maybe I'm just old school, grew up watching it in the 90s I don't recall people just missing corners and carrying straight on as if nothing happened like you see now with so many run offs

Would help reduce the race being decided by track limits too, as the consequences of the gravel (at best slowed down massively) are enough of a deterrent to just missing corners
 
I think they need to adopt some sort of right to space on the outside rule. Not just if you are ahead at the apex, because max has shown repeatedly he is happy to late brake the apex with no intention of making it and then just run cars wide ensuring he can't be passed. Norris was never getting past him yesterday because the rules favour the defending driver.
 
OK so the discussion about gravel has made me think the question "is f1 now almost too sterile?"

Obviously disclaimer we do NOT want people to die!!

But Austin was the first time we had an sc in something like 9 races

They were a regular thing in the 90s

Are the drivers way better? The cars easier to drive? Too many sterile tracks with run offs not gravel? Something else?

Again I don't want people to die before anyone thinks that!!
 
United Hobbit said:
OK so the discussion about gravel has made me think the question "is f1 now almost too sterile?"

Obviously disclaimer we do NOT want people to die!!

But Austin was the first time we had an sc in something like 9 races

They were a regular thing in the 90s

Are the drivers way better? The cars easier to drive? Too many sterile tracks with run offs not gravel? Something else?

Again I don't want people to die before anyone thinks that!!
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You're a maniac!
 
United Hobbit said:
OK so the discussion about gravel has made me think the question "is f1 now almost too sterile?"

Obviously disclaimer we do NOT want people to die!!

But Austin was the first time we had an sc in something like 9 races

They were a regular thing in the 90s

Are the drivers way better? The cars easier to drive? Too many sterile tracks with run offs not gravel? Something else?

Again I don't want people to die before anyone thinks that!!
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It kind of is too sterile these days but im not sure what all can be done to truly address that since most involve either an increased safety risk or go counter to their sustainability.

We should just have them add 30 lbs of items on each car for each race that can be used against other drivers like banana peels.
 
If F1 is truly the pinnacle of motorsports perhaps we should get rid of the old concept all together and just switch to a multi disciplines competition. Put em in stock, rally, carting, open wheel, truck and more in a season.
 
Yeah or we could go back to racing proper sized cars on proper race tracks.

I hate what F1 has become. Would never have fallen asleep during a race 2 decades ago.


And I hate every youtuber that explains the changes of that winglet or this surface bend like they knew what they were talking about. They are the same to me as the people who go around licking the ground where their favorite star spat.


(gotta say I'm more than a bit happy that the netflix train seems to have moved on. It's viewers will forget all about this in 2-3 years, can't wait).
 
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I just caught up with Missed Apex's race review and their driving expert was scathing of Max and the stewards. He's not a fan of the new overtaking regulations, but he also pointed out its in the regulations the protection for the defending car only applies if that car keeps itself on the track, specifically the defending car "must be capable of making the corner while remaining within the limits of the track".

What this means is that all protections for Max of "he was ahead at the apex" literally does not apply as per the regulations. This means it becomes either a racing incident OR, more likely, a simple case of forcing a car off the track.
 
hobbers said:
All of the above.

Parts are too standardised which massively improves reliability. The majority of tracks have been sterilised with tarmac run offs. The cars are too big and clunky which means drivers take far fewer risks generally. Because the tyres are so shit they're almost never pushing flat out in races anyway, which also goes back to why reliability is so good.

The vast majority of overtakes in F1 are DRS-controlled, risk-free and happen before the braking zones, and while that's the case F1 will never have genuinely exciting races, where the drama isnt being engineered through controversy. The section of corners after turn 12 in Austin is almost unique in the calendar as somewhere 2 cars can race side by side without one having DRS open.
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Don't forget the cost cap which also means drivers take fewer risks
 
I only occasionally jump in this thread nowadays - just to say - I agree with anyone suggesting the sport in general is worse and/or more sterile.

The American ownership that took over from Bernie. They somehow made things ten times worse. Taking over from mad Bernie and make things worse, some upset that.
 
slyadams said:
I just caught up with Missed Apex's race review and their driving expert was scathing of Max and the stewards. He's not a fan of the new overtaking regulations, but he also pointed out its in the regulations the protection for the defending car only applies if that car keeps itself on the track, specifically the defending car "must be capable of making the corner while remaining within the limits of the track".

What this means is that all protections for Max of "he was ahead at the apex" literally does not apply as per the regulations. This means it becomes either a racing incident OR, more likely, a simple case of forcing a car off the track.
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there was a post on reddit f1 which was upvoted alot. it was a youtube video of fernando alonso suggesting what the rules of engagement for racing in F1 should be. popular suggestion. shame i cant find the video url now.
 
Ironically every time Max does something it becomes so hotly contested Liberty Media and the track directors must be loving all the media engagement it drives. Probably generates way more money for them than he takes home.
 
x5UhIlk.png

Jesus this angle at the start. I know they give extra latitude on the first lap, but that's to avoid punishing mistakes in the heat of wheel to wheel when there's chaos and a tiny error can have huge consequences. Taking this line into a corner is not the intent of that.
 

Second practice in Mexico extended to 90 minutes​

This weekend’s race takes place at the Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez in Mexico City, with the teams set to use the C3, C4 and C5 compounds as Pirelli is bringing a step softer compounds for this year’s race.

But, with an eye looking ahead to F1 2025, the opening day of practice will see the teams set loose on the Autodromo for a longer 90-minute second practice session, with FP2 being dedicated to validating the new soft compounds in Pirelli’s range.

These will be the C4, C5, and C6 compounds, which will be utilised throughout the “in-competition test”.

This sees the practice session become a dedicated test with all the drivers required to follow a specific programme outlined by Pirelli engineers, rather than the teams.

Aside from the usual tyre allocation of 12 sets for the Grand Prix weekend, each driver will be given two additional sets of tyres – one an additional compound from the existing range as a baseline reference, and another being from the F1 2025 prototype range – differing in construction and compound from its 2024 counterpart.
These two sets will be identifiable as they will run without the usual sidewall markings.

Pirelli has confirmed the programme will consist of a performance run and a long run, and every team will run the same number of laps with equal levels of fuel onboard.

However, an added complication is that several teams are running with junior drivers in FP1 in order to conform with the FIA’s requirement that each team hands over two sessions throughout the year to a rookie.

With Mexico being one of the final opportunities of the year, several teams are doing so and, as a result, the regular race drivers climbing back into their cars for the FP2 test will be allowed to break away from Pirelli testing after 60 minutes in order to resume their usual data gathering. These drivers will be given an additional set of medium compound tyres for this 30-minute portion.
 
slyadams said:
x5UhIlk.png

Jesus this angle at the start. I know they give extra latitude on the first lap, but that's to avoid punishing mistakes in the heat of wheel to wheel when there's chaos and a tiny error can have huge consequences. Taking this line into a corner is not the intent of that.
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Max always aims to cover the entire track by being ahead at the apex and then shutting the other one out wide. Going next to the track is the logical next step. I don't blame him, he plays to the rules, and the FIA have made it abundantly clear that Max is allowed to do this.
 
United Hobbit said:
OK so the discussion about gravel has made me think the question "is f1 now almost too sterile?"

Obviously disclaimer we do NOT want people to die!!

But Austin was the first time we had an sc in something like 9 races

They were a regular thing in the 90s

Are the drivers way better? The cars easier to drive? Too many sterile tracks with run offs not gravel? Something else?

Again I don't want people to die before anyone thinks that!!
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Yes, with the caveat that it’s the same for every sport. I almost never sit down to watch a non-United game anymore, I find football tedious and boring at higher levels. Rugby can be ruined with one slightly mistimed tackle, rending the whole game pointless. I’m sure there’s lot of examples in other sports.
 
Abizzz said:
Max always aims to cover the entire track by being ahead at the apex and then shutting the other one out wide. Going next to the track is the logical next step. I don't blame him, he plays to the rules, and the FIA have made it abundantly clear that Max is allowed to do this.
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shame because it just makes him look like a limited driver. contrast how he defends by just braking too late and blocking off the track to someone like alonso.
 
rimaldo said:
shame because it just makes him look like a limited driver. contrast how he defends by just braking too late and blocking off the track to someone like alonso.
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It is a shame because it's a waste of a talented generation. This is one of the few ways to overtake now (if the marshals let you), DRS being the other (usually used along side it). Normal racing overtakes, hanging on to it on the outside, switching up on a set of corners, faking outside then going inside, have been designed out of formula 1 at this point (long list of reasons but too large cars and no refueling are the culprits I blame most).

Max is a great driver. Norris, Charles and now Piastri have shown they may have the ability to go toe to toe with him. F1 is swimming in cash and is attracting some of the best engineering. We should have great racing. What we do get is turd.
 
I don't blame Max at all for any of it, he's racing to the ruleset, the FIA made a rod for their own back when they didn't appropriately adjust the ruleset. He might be the most hypocritical driver I have ever seen when it comes to these things but he's going to be a 4 time WDC soon, it works.

Do I like that type of racing? Absolutely not, we have a new generation of drivers coming through that will ultimately lower the quality of racing simply because the rules have forced them to race in a certain way to achieve results. It's no longer about being last of the late brakers, it's about having mastery of the radio and politics in the background. Red Bull are absolute masters of gaming the system too, be interesting to see how they evolve once Helmut and Horner aren't there.
 
Leg-End said:
I don't blame Max at all for any of it, he's racing to the ruleset, the FIA made a rod for their own back when they didn't appropriately adjust the ruleset. He might be the most hypocritical driver I have ever seen when it comes to these things but he's going to be a 4 time WDC soon, it works.

Do I like that type of racing? Absolutely not, we have a new generation of drivers coming through that will ultimately lower the quality of racing simply because the rules have forced them to race in a certain way to achieve results. It's no longer about being last of the late brakers, it's about having mastery of the radio and politics in the background. Red Bull are absolute masters of gaming the system too, be interesting to see how they evolve once Helmut and Horner aren't there.
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Thing is, they're not. Nothing they do is particularly clever, they follow a very simple playbook, which is very similar to the Republican/Trump way: say what fits the current situation, ignore/retcon things you've said before that contradicts what you're saying now and if all else fails just make something up and stick to it (e.g. "any doesn't mean all"). Their fans lap it up and their detractors pull their hair out. Its not genius.
 
slyadams said:
Thing is, they're not. Nothing they do is particularly clever, they follow a very simple playbook, which is very similar to the Republican/Trump way: say what fits the current situation, ignore/retcon things you've said before that contradicts what you're saying now and if all else fails just make something up and stick to it (e.g. "any doesn't mean all"). Their fans lap it up and their detractors pull their hair out. Its not genius.
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Eh? :lol:
 
slyadams said:
Thing is, they're not. Nothing they do is particularly clever, they follow a very simple playbook, which is very similar to the Republican/Trump way: say what fits the current situation, ignore/retcon things you've said before that contradicts what you're saying now and if all else fails just make something up and stick to it (e.g. "any doesn't mean all"). Their fans lap it up and their detractors pull their hair out. Its not genius.
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I think you just proved it is.
 
Leg-End said:
I think you just proved it is.
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Sorry, if you think one weekend saying "You have to leave space" then the weekend after saying "You don't have to leave space" is genius then I can't really help. It works on their fans it doesn't mean its genius. There's a huge difference.
 
slyadams said:
Sorry, if you think one weekend saying "You have to leave space" then the weekend after saying "You don't have to leave space" is genius then I can't really help. It works on their fans it doesn't mean its genius. There's a huge difference.
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Your "leave the space" argument is everything to do with the rules. You act like it's clear when you have to leave space when there's a 1000 variables to it. Tiny variances can be the difference between getting a penalty or not. Oh your wheel is 1 cm further back than the other at the apex? Penalty. Oh it's 1 cm in front? That's fine then. You're the one overtaking and not leaving space? Penalty. You're the one defending and not leaving space? Carry on. To add to it, it varies from steward to steward as well. It's infuriating. Plus, all teams defend their drivers and try to influence the stewards with their politics on the radio and in interviews. Let's not pretend that it's only Red Bull that try to portray situations in their favour. I can't think of any team that don't. So you can portray Red Bull like they're the devil and that the other teams are holy but I think that's bollocks :)
 
slyadams said:
Sorry, if you think one weekend saying "You have to leave space" then the weekend after saying "You don't have to leave space" is genius then I can't really help. It works on their fans it doesn't mean its genius. There's a huge difference.
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It works on the FIA, that's the important bit.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Your "leave the space" argument is everything to do with the rules. You act like it's clear when you have to leave space when there's a 1000 variables to it. Tiny variances can be the difference between getting a penalty or not. Oh your wheel is 1 cm further back than the other at the apex? Penalty. Oh it's 1 cm in front? That's fine then. You're the one overtaking and not leaving space? Penalty. You're the one defending and not leaving space? Carry on. To add to it, it varies from steward to steward as well. It's infuriating. Plus, all teams defend their drivers and try to influence the stewards with their politics on the radio and in interviews. Let's not pretend that it's only Red Bull that try to portray situations in their favour. I can't think of any team that don't. So you can portray Red Bull like they're the devil and that the other teams are holy but I think that's bollocks :)
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What are you talking about? I'm not debating the intricacies of every decision, I'm saying Red Bull demonstrably change their position based on what happens on the day. Remember when Christian Horner was the biggest advocate of "let them race" because being aggressive suited Max in the battle against Lewis, but then any time someone is aggressive on Max he's the first on the radio asking for penalties. I'm not saying other teams don't do it, I'm saying Red Bull and Max are the worst at changing their position race to race to suit. My original point was this isn't "genius", anyone can say whatever they want on the day if they don't care about contradicting themselves. What Red Bull are the masters at is being shameless.

Also, I replying to a post disagreeing with the statement "Red Bull are absolute masters of gaming the system", so appologies that I didn't bring every other team in when arguing a position against a single team.
 
Can I just point out you basically described the exact definition of "gaming the system".
 
f1 quiz question. if one of these cars ends up getting a penalty, which one?

IMG-1816.jpg
 
slyadams said:
What are you talking about? I'm not debating the intricacies of every decision, I'm saying Red Bull demonstrably change their position based on what happens on the day. Remember when Christian Horner was the biggest advocate of "let them race" because being aggressive suited Max in the battle against Lewis, but then any time someone is aggressive on Max he's the first on the radio asking for penalties. I'm not saying other teams don't do it, I'm saying Red Bull and Max are the worst at changing their position race to race to suit. My original point was this isn't "genius", anyone can say whatever they want on the day if they don't care about contradicting themselves. What Red Bull are the masters at is being shameless.

Also, I replying to a post disagreeing with the statement "Red Bull are absolute masters of gaming the system", so appologies that I didn't bring every other team in when arguing a position against a single team.
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They probably are fans of let them race but the FIA stewards and the ruleset are clearly not. So what do you expect them to do? Not ask for a penalty even though that's the rules just because you disagree with the rules? That only works if everyone does it and nobody does. Is that shameless?
 
pauldyson1uk said:
I have no idea if this anything other than wold rumour, but it would make for a spectacular one off event.
https://scuderiafans.com/2025-f1-car-launch-a-revolution-approaching-for-official-presentation/
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Its been reported elsewhere before and it seems like something right up their alley. At the same time, we ll probably be even less likely to see anything unique about the designs of the cars and it will truly he just a livery presentation. Or alternatively teams will present something completely outrageous for PR alone instead of anything remotely realistic. They seem to truly want to drive away the drivers who are only in it for the racing and go full WWE. Just look at the media machine around Colapinto right now.

If Liberty could clone drivers of the past they d be more likely to want to clone a James Hunt than a Nikki Lauda.
 
Redplane said:
Its been reported elsewhere before and it seems like something right up their alley. At the same time, we ll probably be even less likely to see anything unique about the designs of the cars and it will truly he just a livery presentation. Or alternatively teams will present something completely outrageous for PR alone instead of anything remotely realistic. They seem to truly want to drive away the drivers who are only in it for the racing and go full WWE. Just look at the media machine around Colapinto right now.

If Liberty could clone drivers of the past they d be more likely to want to clone a James Hunt than a Nikki Lauda.
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Now that would be something to see, both in their prime driving todays cars WOW
 
So Norris now needs to beat Max by 11 points per remaining race weekend to win the title by one point.

And obviously any weekend he fails to do this that number increases.

So if he gains 8 points in Max this weekend he would then need around 12 points per weekend.

Going to be a big ask and basic requires Norris and McLaren to be perfect and Ferrari and Merc to then beat Max.

Not impossible but getting less likely for sure.

If Max beats Norris in another 2 of the remaining 5 weekends then that's it over i would guess
 
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