CH just called out Perez a bit there?
F1 2024 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
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It's so clear tbh. Any midfield car does what Verstappen did there, no way they don't get penalized.
I really liked how he defended until that point, but really can't be getting away with that
CH reminds me of Klopp always whining to the stewards despite their teams getting the rub of the green with decisions
Think the difference was Max was the defending car in that corner whereas George was overtaking and I have tried watching it back but its not entirely clear to me whether George was actually ahead at the apex. Looked very close. Shouldn't really matter that much in my opinion but according to the rules it does. Thought at the time the Russell penalty was very soft anyway and still do. Should be overturned.
So are McLaren unfortunately. Stella, Brown and Norris are all regularly acting like cnuts this season. Hardly any likeable teams left tbh. Maybe Williams?
Ferrari as a team are quite likeable. They dont have a Toto, a Horner or a Zak Brown so they win easily.
Agreed
So Lando’s shit house race craft is shown up again and Max bending the rules… just another week in F1
Russell was comfortably inside track limits and yet was penalized.
Verstappen brakes later and doesn't make the corner, that's the biggest issue for me.
Poor from Lando, should've give the place back and he should know Max is going to park his car off track when desperate so I would stay on track and appeal for a penalty as well and just overtake next lap. Such poor covering from Lando on lap 1, when Max is in that position he is pointing his car on the grid and stopping the inside overtake.
Sad to see so many opportunities and points lost for McLaren, if Ferrari can maintain being near the top, there's a possibility they could push Max back adding more to what could've been.
Sad to see so many opportunities and points lost for McLaren, if Ferrari can maintain being near the top, there's a possibility they could push Max back adding more to what could've been.
Stewards seem keen to gift Max yet another championship.
Fell asleep during the race. Watched the highlights now. Glad I slept.
That's why I asked whether Russell was actually ahead at the apex, because if he was then by the rules it would be his corner and he shouldn't have been penalized. If he wasn't, then by the rules the penalty is correct. Though I don't really like these rules because it severely inhibits racing.
For me, he is exactly as far alongside at the apex as Verstappen was with Norris by braking later than the other car. He makes the corner comfortably while Verstappen doesn't, and still Russell is the one who gets a penalty.
and just like that, its race week again, this time Mexico
| Fri 25th Oct | Start | |
|---|---|---|
| Practice 1 | 7:30pm | |
| Practice 2 | 11:00pm |
| Sat 26th Oct | Start | |
|---|---|---|
| Practice 3 | 6:30pm | |
| Qualifying | 10:00pm |
| Sun 27th Oct | Start | |
|---|---|---|
| Grand Prix | 8:00pm |
Think there is a decent chance that Ferrari get constructor's title and Max gets the championship leaving McLaren with nothing.
It's not what people want to hear on but with the rules the penalties given where correct.
The rules where also agreed with input from the drivers/GDPA.
Also can't remember what race it was but there was also a race earlier this season when Norris forced Max off making Max overtake outside track limits and Max was made to hand the place back despite being forced wide.
The rules where also agreed with input from the drivers/GDPA.
Also can't remember what race it was but there was also a race earlier this season when Norris forced Max off making Max overtake outside track limits and Max was made to hand the place back despite being forced wide.
Was it Austria? Can't recall either.
But yes you are correct. Because Max is involved it almost naturally gets blown out of proportion. Max is brilliant in the sense that he knows exactly where to push the envelope of the rules in existence. If you read into his comms right after it it makes it sound like what he did was calculated and that he knew the benefit in that situation would be his. We can argue about steward inconsistency all day long like we can with anything human subjectivity based in all sports - but they did appear to apply it by the letter in this case.
That people don't like it because they don't like the driver benefitting is irrelevant. I've seen some people instead focus their efforts on criticizing the rules, and that is the only thing that should be at question if you have issue with that happened. Top drivers know exactly how to push the envelope and it's a challenge for a FIA to determine how far they go into curbing that or not. As others have mentioned elsewhere - at some pt you risk making racing too sterile.
Imagine if one or both drivers would have ended up stuck in gravel there like was the play in some many track battles of the past. People would truly be screaming bloody murder. Many of those same people who say now that gravel is the answer.
A problem is that it isn't really applied consistently and/or the rules are too complex. For example, Sainz did to Max what Russell did to Bottas (think it was lap 1 or 2) except Max kept in front after going off. That wasn't investigated. Was that then because he didn't complete the overtake? He didn't gain from pushing someone off whereas Russell did? I don't know. There's so many of these situations, often several per race, and for me it often feels like a lottery whether there will be a penalty or not.
I wouldnt be. It doesn't matter if you're defending or attacking, if you end up on the outside of a very acute corner/hairpin, like turn 1 and 12 in COTA, turn 3 and 4 in Austria etc, then you have to expect to be forced to back out. And if you dont submit, into the gravel you go. That's just racing. They have to do better to not be on the outside.
If people dont like that, petition the FIA to stop making F1 cars so stupidly long and wide.
I really want Ferrari to win the constructors and Norris to get the championship for something different but I really dislike red bull and I also have no time for Mcclaren since they had trump in their garage.
No argument from me there. If the rules aren't applied consistently especially when the letter is followed and the other time it's not - it's not really a rule.
This is pretty much it, getting to the apex meant Max had the right to the corner, even though he had no intention of actually making it round without leaving the track. The main difference with the Russell incident seems to that he was overtaking.
If we don't want to see drivers bombing the apex with little interest in making a corner, the rules need to be changed to stop rewarding it as a tactic. If you can't make a corner yourself, then whoever you forced off shouldn't be penalised for that.
Agree, if people make a big enough error they should end up in the gravel, it's annoying watch people completely miss corners and just drive on unimpeded because there are so many run offs now
Maybe I'm just old school, grew up watching it in the 90s I don't recall people just missing corners and carrying straight on as if nothing happened like you see now with so many run offs
Would help reduce the race being decided by track limits too, as the consequences of the gravel (at best slowed down massively) are enough of a deterrent to just missing corners
I think they need to adopt some sort of right to space on the outside rule. Not just if you are ahead at the apex, because max has shown repeatedly he is happy to late brake the apex with no intention of making it and then just run cars wide ensuring he can't be passed. Norris was never getting past him yesterday because the rules favour the defending driver.
OK so the discussion about gravel has made me think the question "is f1 now almost too sterile?"
Obviously disclaimer we do NOT want people to die!!
But Austin was the first time we had an sc in something like 9 races
They were a regular thing in the 90s
Are the drivers way better? The cars easier to drive? Too many sterile tracks with run offs not gravel? Something else?
Again I don't want people to die before anyone thinks that!!
Obviously disclaimer we do NOT want people to die!!
But Austin was the first time we had an sc in something like 9 races
They were a regular thing in the 90s
Are the drivers way better? The cars easier to drive? Too many sterile tracks with run offs not gravel? Something else?
Again I don't want people to die before anyone thinks that!!
You're a maniac!
It kind of is too sterile these days but im not sure what all can be done to truly address that since most involve either an increased safety risk or go counter to their sustainability.
We should just have them add 30 lbs of items on each car for each race that can be used against other drivers like banana peels.
All of the above.
Parts are too standardised which massively improves reliability. The majority of tracks have been sterilised with tarmac run offs. The cars are too big and clunky which means drivers take far fewer risks generally. Because the tyres are so shit they're almost never pushing flat out in races anyway, which also goes back to why reliability is so good.
The vast majority of overtakes in F1 are DRS-controlled, risk-free and happen before the braking zones, and while that's the case F1 will never have genuinely exciting races, where the drama isnt being engineered through controversy. The section of corners after turn 12 in Austin is almost unique in the calendar as somewhere 2 cars can race side by side without one having DRS open.
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If F1 is truly the pinnacle of motorsports perhaps we should get rid of the old concept all together and just switch to a multi disciplines competition. Put em in stock, rally, carting, open wheel, truck and more in a season.
Yeah or we could go back to racing proper sized cars on proper race tracks.
I hate what F1 has become. Would never have fallen asleep during a race 2 decades ago.
And I hate every youtuber that explains the changes of that winglet or this surface bend like they knew what they were talking about. They are the same to me as the people who go around licking the ground where their favorite star spat.
(gotta say I'm more than a bit happy that the netflix train seems to have moved on. It's viewers will forget all about this in 2-3 years, can't wait).
I hate what F1 has become. Would never have fallen asleep during a race 2 decades ago.
And I hate every youtuber that explains the changes of that winglet or this surface bend like they knew what they were talking about. They are the same to me as the people who go around licking the ground where their favorite star spat.
(gotta say I'm more than a bit happy that the netflix train seems to have moved on. It's viewers will forget all about this in 2-3 years, can't wait).
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I just caught up with Missed Apex's race review and their driving expert was scathing of Max and the stewards. He's not a fan of the new overtaking regulations, but he also pointed out its in the regulations the protection for the defending car only applies if that car keeps itself on the track, specifically the defending car "must be capable of making the corner while remaining within the limits of the track".
What this means is that all protections for Max of "he was ahead at the apex" literally does not apply as per the regulations. This means it becomes either a racing incident OR, more likely, a simple case of forcing a car off the track.
What this means is that all protections for Max of "he was ahead at the apex" literally does not apply as per the regulations. This means it becomes either a racing incident OR, more likely, a simple case of forcing a car off the track.
Don't forget the cost cap which also means drivers take fewer risks
I only occasionally jump in this thread nowadays - just to say - I agree with anyone suggesting the sport in general is worse and/or more sterile.
The American ownership that took over from Bernie. They somehow made things ten times worse. Taking over from mad Bernie and make things worse, some upset that.
The American ownership that took over from Bernie. They somehow made things ten times worse. Taking over from mad Bernie and make things worse, some upset that.
there was a post on reddit f1 which was upvoted alot. it was a youtube video of fernando alonso suggesting what the rules of engagement for racing in F1 should be. popular suggestion. shame i cant find the video url now.
Ironically every time Max does something it becomes so hotly contested Liberty Media and the track directors must be loving all the media engagement it drives. Probably generates way more money for them than he takes home.
They know it's controversy that drives all engagement now, not the racing.
Indeed
Unfortunately that's so very true, when RB were dominating start of the season, the CH case had WAY more interest and discussion