F1 2021 Season

KirkDuyt said:
Someone help me get into F1, I want to be part of this passion dammit :lol:
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Aren’t you Dutch? This should be easy.

Max Emilian Verstappen is the hero of the story and Lewis Hamilton the cheat is Dick Dastardly.

Dick Dastardly punted off the Great Dutch Hope in the last race. That said, our Dutch Hero still leads the championship while the British cheat continues to try every trick in the book to stop him.
 
Infordin said:
Aren’t you Dutch? This should be easy.

Max Emilian Verstappen is the hero of the story and Lewis Hamilton the cheat is Dick Dastardly.

Dick Dastardly punted off the Great Dutch Hope in the last race. That said, our Dutch Hero still leads the championship while the British cheat continues to try every trick in the book to stop him.
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It should be easy! The proven champion, my countryman as the young up and comer trying to take him on.

Thing is, I don't like Max, he's a bit of a cnut :wenger:

And Hamilton is just, woohoo you had the best car for 8 years and no one could challenge you. The whole premise just doesn't work for me. Everyone should drive the same car.
 
Seen it all now, this thread is some sort of F1 mental asylum.

Roll on next weekend so the circus can continue
 
Leg-End said:
Seen it all now, this thread is some sort of F1 mental asylum.

Roll on next weekend so the circus can continue
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Yes indeed.
Some very knowledgeable posts. But some bordering on the juvenile.
These are 2 top drivers racing for 2 top teams. Neither want to back off which is completely unacceptable.
Contact is almost inevitable. Racing is racing. All so easy to be wise after the event.
Let's just move on eh.
 
Adam-Utd said:
I understood why he was angry at the time but to carry it on after the dust has settled shows he's rattled.
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Of course Horner is rattled. Max now needs to win 5 straight races to make up for the 32 points he lost, and Red Bull has to fork up 2$ million of their cap money to repair the car instead of using it for upgrades. And potential penalties for engine or gearbox etc, which we dont know yet.

In a split second all that Red Bull and Verstappen had gained during 10 races were nullified by a clumsy mistake by Hamilton, which he was richly rewarded for. Not even counting for the psychological impact that massive shunt might have on Max going forward. All in all that was probably the most defining moment of a championship since Vettel ran off by himself in the rain..

Max were running away with the championship and now its back to square one. Its human nature for Horner to be rattled. What Horner should be focusing on though is changing the silly red flag rule that allowed Lewis free repairs instead of having to start from last which would have been the case had it not been red flagged. In any respectable sport you would not be able to create a red flag by an incident you were deemed responsible for and then benefit greatly from it. It makes F1 look like a complete laughing stock. Its not Hamiltons fault that the rules are seriously flawed, he was just incredible lucky. If this incident caused the FIA to change the rules, then it would have been for good, but sadly it will continue to be a lottery.
 
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Fluctuation0161 said:
Threatening legal action against the stewards decision is not only creating an angle to get a potential pot of money. It is bad sportsmanship.

I do understand and accept they should not have a cost cap impacted by crashes. But they have gone beyond.
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I think most teams do this, and bitch and complain about any potential 'advantages' that their rivals might have. There is no downside and potential upside. In a sport where milliseconds matter, it isn't surprising. Just don't take it public.
 
KirkDuyt said:
It should be easy! The proven champion, my countryman as the young up and comer trying to take him on.

Thing is, I don't like Max, he's a bit of a cnut :wenger:

And Hamilton is just, woohoo you had the best car for 8 years and no one could challenge you. The whole premise just doesn't work for me. Everyone should drive the same car.
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It would be a bit cramped.
 
Lightbringer said:
Of course Horner is rattled. Max now needs to win 5 straight races to make up for the 32 points he lost, and Red Bull has to fork up 2$ million of their cap money to repair the car instead of using it for upgrades. And potential penalties for engine or gearbox etc, which we dont know yet.

In a split second all that Red Bull and Verstappen had gained during 10 races were nullified by a clumsy mistake by Hamilton, which he was richly rewarded for. Not even counting for the psychological impact that massive shunt might have on Max going forward. All in all that was probably the most defining moment of a championship since Vettel ran off by himself in the rain..

Max were running away with the championship and now its back to square one. Its human nature for Horner to be rattled. What Horner should be focusing on though is changing the silly red flag rule that allowed Lewis free repairs instead of having to start from last which would have been the case had it not been red flagged. In any respectable sport you would not be able to create a red flag by an incident you were deemed responsible for and then benefit greatly from it. It makes F1 look like a complete laughing stock. Its not Hamiltons fault that the rules are seriously flawed, he was just incredible lucky. If this incident caused the FIA to change the rules, then it would have been for good, but sadly it will continue to be a lottery.
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I can’t help being dragged back in but it max shouldn’t have closed the door so aggressively if all this bad was to come of it, he showed his inexperience now the team has to deal with it.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
I can’t help being dragged back in but it max shouldn’t have closed the door so aggressively if all this bad was to come of it, he showed his inexperience now the team has to deal with it.
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Verstappen can not see into the future, and he does not have a dominant car as Lewis has had for the past 7 years. Giving up the position would have cost 14 points in the standings. Its tight in the standings, with so many races left, Max can not start to yield position to Hamilton already.

How the heck does Max shows his inexperience when Lewis gets penalized for the incident? Do you think Max should expect a 7 time WDC do make clumsy mistakes such as this one? I for sure did not. It ended up badly for Max because he was unlucky and the race was red flagged, no red flag and Lewis get zero points. A proper drive through penalty to be served within 3 laps of re-start and Lewis barely gets into the points.

If Verstappen could foresee all of this above, he would have waved Lewis pass, but thats not how it works. If he had a car that was 1 second per lap quicker like the Merc has been, he could have afford the luxury of letting Lewis pass. You can not compare Lewis playing it smart during his dominance with Merc as they had such a dominant car. The current championship is entirely different.

If anything Lewis showed stupid desperation and lack of judgement with his move, had he been penalized like he deserved this would be a non story as neither Lewis or Max would have gotten any points from Britain. I have no idea why Hamilton fans keep deflecting the blame from Lewis, its pretty annoying at this point.

Just be happy you got 32 freebie lucky points, that should not be so hard as it probably was the theft of the century of F1 (albeit not done on purpose)
 
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@Lightbringer

are you Horner in disguise? the fanboy act is getting tiring now. Max isn’t an innocent angel that made no mistakes, this is motor racing and things happen.

Hopefully in the future he will realise consistency is what wins championships, not trying to claim the lead at every corner.

RB were obviously trying to shit on Merc + Hamilton at his home GP in particular as a moral victory, that’s why he’s so upset more than usual.
 
Lightbringer said:
Verstappen can not see into the future, and he does not have a dominant car as Lewis has had for the past 7 years. Giving up the position would have cost 14 points in the standings. Its tight in the standings, with so many races left, Max can not start to yield position to Hamilton already.

How the heck does Max shows his inexperience when Lewis gets penalized for the incident? Do you think Max should expect a 7 time WDC do make clumsy mistakes such as this one? I for sure did not. It ended up badly for Max because he was unlucky and the race was red flagged, no red flag and Lewis get zero points. A proper drive through penalty to be served within 3 laps of re-start and Lewis barely gets into the points.

If Verstappen could foresee all of this above, he would have waved Lewis pass, but thats not how it works. If he had a car that was 1 second per lap quicker like the Merc has been, he could have afford the luxury of letting Lewis pass. You can not compare Lewis playing it smart during his dominance with Merc as they had such a dominant car. The current championship is entirely different.

If anything Lewis showed stupid desperation and lack of judgement with his move, had he been penalized like he deserved this would be a non story as neither Lewis or Max would have gotten any points from Britain. I have no idea why Hamilton fans keep deflecting the blame from Lewis, its pretty annoying at this point.

Just be happy you got 32 freebie lucky points, that should not be so hard as it probably was the theft of the century of F1 (albeit not done on purpose)
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The only bit I agree with !!!
But this is getting boring now !
 
Lightbringer said:
Verstappen can not see into the future, and he does not have a dominant car as Lewis has had for the past 7 years. Giving up the position would have cost 14 points in the standings. Its tight in the standings, with so many races left, Max can not start to yield position to Hamilton already.

How the heck does Max shows his inexperience when Lewis gets penalized for the incident? Do you think Max should expect a 7 time WDC do make clumsy mistakes such as this one? I for sure did not. It ended up badly for Max because he was unlucky and the race was red flagged, no red flag and Lewis get zero points. A proper drive through penalty to be served within 3 laps of re-start and Lewis barely gets into the points.

If Verstappen could foresee all of this above, he would have waved Lewis pass, but thats not how it works. If he had a car that was 1 second per lap quicker like the Merc has been, he could have afford the luxury of letting Lewis pass. You can not compare Lewis playing it smart during his dominance with Merc as they had such a dominant car. The current championship is entirely different.

If anything Lewis showed stupid desperation and lack of judgement with his move, had he been penalized like he deserved this would be a non story as neither Lewis or Max would have gotten any points from Britain. I have no idea why Hamilton fans keep deflecting the blame from Lewis, its pretty annoying at this point.

Just be happy you got 32 freebie lucky points, that should not be so hard as it probably was the theft of the century of F1 (albeit not done on purpose)
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Me? I’m not even a fan of Lewis.

from what I see max was erratic and doing anything possible not to lose his position, expecting other drivers to always back out. This time it didn’t go for him and he’ll learn from it.
 
The F1 needed this. The entertainment level has gone up a notch, I wouldn't be surprised if the next race gets higher viewership.
 
Adam-Utd said:
The issue is Horner is making a huge deal out of this, as soon as Perez makes a mistake or Verstappen takes out Hamilton Mercedes are going to come back twice as hard. Where does it end?

I understood why he was angry at the time but to carry it on after the dust has settled shows he's rattled.
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Ive always like Horner but presently he's making it very difficult to like him anymore. His constant moaning could cause a problem for both drivers end up falling out with each other. Never have I read a team stating it cost ex amount (( 1.3 million ) to repair a car.

The animosity Horner causing is certainly going to spice next weeks Hungarian GP up. If Hammy comes away with a good result he could well bring the championship back to life considering it's a track where Red Bull nearly always have to he edge.
 
Infordin said:
I know that would be a fantasy of yours, but sadly it’s not going to happen.

Lewis Hamilton is not capable of beating Max Verstappen in equal machinery. Unless he plans on taking him out every race, Max will eventually win the title this season. He’s just a better driver than his rival.
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You woke up yet.
 
keithsingleton said:
Ive always like Horner but presently he's making it very difficult to like him anymore. His constant moaning could cause a problem for both drivers end up falling out with each other. Never have I read a team stating it cost ex amount (( 1.3 million ) to repair a car.

The animosity Horner causing is certainly going to spice next weeks Hungarian GP up. If Hammy comes away with a good result he could well bring the championship back to life considering it's a track where Red Bull nearly always have to he edge.
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disagree , Mercedes have won 13 has engine builders and constructors 1999, 2000, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2016, 2018, 2019, 2020
Lewis has 8 wins the past 3, 2007, 2009, 2012, 2013, 2016, 2018, 2019, 2020
Hungary is firmly a Mercedes track.
Red Bull only 2 wins 2010 and 2014
 
Infordin said:
I know that would be a fantasy of yours, but sadly it’s not going to happen.

Lewis Hamilton is not capable of beating Max Verstappen in equal machinery. Unless he plans on taking him out every race, Max will eventually win the title this season. He’s just a better driver than his rival.
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:lol: :lol:
 
LoneStar said:
I think most teams do this, and bitch and complain about any potential 'advantages' that their rivals might have. There is no downside and potential upside. In a sport where milliseconds matter, it isn't surprising. Just don't take it public.
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True. It's the public nature of the PR campaign which smacks of desperation to me.
 
Eendracht maakt macht said:
Why is this so laughable?
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The only response I’ve gotten so far is laughing emojis. Nobody has actually made a coherent argument yet.

2021 is the first time we’ve seen Max and Lewis in the same car and Max has been levels above. The fact that he’s still ahead in the championship despite retiring from 2/10 races says it all.
 
Infordin said:
The only response I’ve gotten so far is laughing emojis. Nobody has actually made a coherent argument yet.

2021 is the first time we’ve seen Max and Lewis in the same car and Max has been levels above. The fact that he’s still ahead in the championship despite retiring from 2/10 races says it all.
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Only casually following F1 but has the red bull not been faster this season? Especially down the straights.

Even if the cars are the same this season your statement is outlandish as it's based off a small sample set of races and because you don't know how a younger Lewis or a more aggressive Lewis would match up. In fact I think we may start seeing Lewis be more aggressive because while risky Max stands to lose out more as we saw last race.
 
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Lightbringer said:
Verstappen can not see into the future, and he does not have a dominant car as Lewis has had for the past 7 years. Giving up the position would have cost 14 points in the standings. Its tight in the standings, with so many races left, Max can not start to yield position to Hamilton already.

How the heck does Max shows his inexperience when Lewis gets penalized for the incident? Do you think Max should expect a 7 time WDC do make clumsy mistakes such as this one? I for sure did not. It ended up badly for Max because he was unlucky and the race was red flagged, no red flag and Lewis get zero points. A proper drive through penalty to be served within 3 laps of re-start and Lewis barely gets into the points.

If Verstappen could foresee all of this above, he would have waved Lewis pass, but thats not how it works. If he had a car that was 1 second per lap quicker like the Merc has been, he could have afford the luxury of letting Lewis pass. You can not compare Lewis playing it smart during his dominance with Merc as they had such a dominant car. The current championship is entirely different.

If anything Lewis showed stupid desperation and lack of judgement with his move, had he been penalized like he deserved this would be a non story as neither Lewis or Max would have gotten any points from Britain. I have no idea why Hamilton fans keep deflecting the blame from Lewis, its pretty annoying at this point.

Just be happy you got 32 freebie lucky points, that should not be so hard as it probably was the theft of the century of F1 (albeit not done on purpose)
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:boring:
 
marktan said:
Only casually following F1 but has the red bull not been faster this season? Especially down the straights.
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Red Bull faster in Bahrain, Monaco, Baku, and the two Austria races

Mercedes faster in Imola, Portugal, Spain, France and Britain.

Overall the cars have been equal. Max is better than Lewis though.
 
Infordin said:
Red Bull faster in Bahrain, Monaco, Baku, and the two Austria races

Mercedes faster in Imola, Portugal, Spain, France and Britain.

Overall the cars have been equal. Max is better than Lewis though.
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It can't bounce up and down randomly every other race like that. And wasn't the Red Bull clearly quicker in the sprint race?

It's hard to avoid the impression that you're suiting your arguments to your conclusion. (Beyond the extent to which everybody does that.) Also, argument from authority doesn't work the way you seem to think it does. All these authorities you're dismissing also explained their opinions, so you'll have to engage with that rather than saying each time you don't care.
 
Cheimoon said:
Also, argument from authority doesn't work the way you seem to think it does. All these authorities you're dismissing also explained their opinions, so you'll have to engage with that rather than saying each time you don't care.
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There was a thread on Reddit which took note of every significant opinion on the Hamilton vs Verstappen incident, namely both current and ex-drivers.

- The majority (60%) thought it was Hamilton’s fault.
- About 40% of people called it a racing incident
- Nobody of any relevance blamed solely Verstappen

And yet you go on Redcafe, Autosport, or any other British forum, and you have a bunch of Brits blaming Verstappen, which is just delusional.
 
Eendracht maakt macht said:
Why is this so laughable?
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Because it is widely acknowledged that the Red Bull has been the fastest car this season. They have not been in equal machinery.

You could make an argument for Max being on the same level as Hamilton, i would disagree but you could make that argument without being laughed at.

But to say Max is a better driver is not backed up by any evidence.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Because it is widely acknowledged that the Red Bull has been the fastest car this season. They have not been in equal machinery.
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That’s one way to cope with the fact that Max has largely outclassed Lewis this season.

Tell me, if Red Bull is so superior, then why has Bottas outperformed Perez by every metric this season?
 
Infordin said:
Red Bull faster in Bahrain, Monaco, Baku, and the two Austria races

Mercedes faster in Imola, Portugal, Spain, France and Britain.

Overall the cars have been equal. Max is better than Lewis though.
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I assume you are looking at qualifying times. The evidence across practice, sprint race and the actual races show the Red Bull is the faster car. As is widely accepted by anyone with any credibility in the sport of F1.

Guess what, Mercedes were only faster in those races because they were driven by the better driver, 7 time WC Hamilton.
 
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Infordin said:
There was a thread on Reddit which took note of every significant opinion on the Hamilton vs Verstappen incident, namely both current and ex-drivers.

- The majority (60%) thought it was Hamilton’s fault.
- About 40% of people called it a racing incident
- Nobody of any relevance blamed solely Verstappen

And yet you go on Redcafe, Autosport, or any other British forum, and you have a bunch of Brits blaming Verstappen, which is just delusional.
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I haven’t seen anyone in here, although I may have missed it, solely blame max. Just that it was a racing incident both could have done more to avoid.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Guess what, Mercedes were only faster in those races because they were driven by the better driver, 7 time WC Hamilton.
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I will repeat what I asked before:

Tell me, if Red Bull is so superior, then why has Bottas outperformed Perez by every metric this season?
 
Infordin said:
There was a thread on Reddit which took note of every significant opinion on the Hamilton vs Verstappen incident, namely both current and ex-drivers.

- The majority (60%) thought it was Hamilton’s fault.
- About 40% of people called it a racing incident
- Nobody of any relevance blamed solely Verstappen

And yet you go on Redcafe, Autosport, or any other British forum, and you have a bunch of Brits blaming Verstappen, which is just delusional.
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Can you verify any of this?

You keep going on about 'nobody of any relevance blamed solely Verstappen' when no-one here either is making that argument. This unverified info you're referring too still paints a picture of it not being clear cut. The stewards said Hamilton was 'predominantly to blame', ego Max was partially to blame, but less so.

You really need to move on.
 
Infordin said:
I will repeat what I asked before:

Tell me, if Red Bull is so superior, then why has Bottas outperformed Perez by every metric this season?
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You're right. Perez came 16th at Silverstone, so Red Bull has one of the worst cars, which proves just how much better Max is than Lewis.
 
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