F1 2021 Season

Infordin said:
From my experience, there are two types of people who dislike Hamilton:

1. those who dislike him for his political views and opinions. These are usually based in the UK. However, they often aren’t even F1 fans

2. those who consider him an overrated driver with inflated statistics who got lucky driving for the most dominant team ever. These are almost always from outside the UK. I fall in this bracket.

I could not care any less about Hamilton as a person, nor do I mind his political views. I just find him an overrated driver and I rate Verstappen above him.
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When did you start watching F1? Do you not remember Hamilton coming very close to winning a world championship in his rookie season? Nine consecutive podium finishes as a rookie a record that still stands and won't be beaten for a very long time. He was a world champion in his second season.

It will take another 20 years with most his of records to still be intact for some people to realise just how good he is.
 
Horner has really whipped these Max fanboys into a frenzy hasn't he :lol:

It reminds me of the scousers with the Suarez incident.
 
Infordin said:
A lot of Hamilton fans on here really need to learn the rules of racing.

https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/

If the driver on the inside is ahead at corner exit, it is the duty of the driver on the outside to back out or take evasive action to avoid a collision.

f1_outside_behind.png


Therefore, what Verstappen did to Hamilton at Imola and Spain was perfectly legitimate.

Now:

In this case, the attacker has only their front wing alongside the defender’s rear wheel. The defender has the right to the racing line. A collision at the apex is entirely the fault of the attacker.

f1_apex_b.png


This implies that the Silverstone collision would be Hamilton's fault even if Verstappen fully closed the door.

However, Verstappen did not close the door and left Hamilton room:

62-B3-DA4-A-1-B9-E-4-B46-BCB4-FA3635830521.jpg


Slam dunk case, Hamilton's fault.
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You keep, purposely, ommitting things. When a driver is alongside but behind the lead driver must still give space. Max doesn't do this as shown CLEARLY in the images I posted that you ignored. If you are 1mm ahead through the corner you cannot just drift to the outside and run the other person off the road. Its not hard to understand.
 
hellhunter said:
Well you (not you in particular) can't have it both ways. Since sunday, people have been arguing that Hamilton is to blame because some folks at Sky and elsewhere said so. Now that a lot of first hand experts say otherwise, the opinion of experts is worthless.

Same goes for the FIA ruling. People screaming bloody murder because the penalty was too soft but at the same time giving the FIA ruling all the weight needed to support their argument.

You either listen to experts and the FIA or you don't, but not whenever it suits your agenda.
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Bang on,

"The FIA made the decision, by definition they are correct so you must agree with it"
"The FIA's punishment was too lenient, they were wrong"

To be clear: the decision on the day was actually made by the stewards, who are people. Its entirely possible that those people make a mistake. We can all recount numerous times a referee/VAR in football have made mistakes in retrospect, nobody is perfect.
 
Dan_F said:
This argument is getting quite boring. It basically comes down to these viewpoints, bare with me.

1. Was it intentional? You’d have to be mental to actually want to create contact at that point. For both your own race and your opponents. Hamilton has never really shown anything in his career to suggest he’s a malicious driver. If you have this viewpoint, I’d understand why you are annoyed, but I don’t even think Horner thinks it was “intentional”.

2. Hamilton made a mistake and was at fault. It’s what the stewards judged predominately. It’s why he got the penalty, however, they judged that he wasn’t solely to blame, hence no stop and go. If you have this viewpoint it’s time to move on. If this happened in the midfield it would barely have been discussed after the race. We also have plenty of other examples of title rivals crashing into each other. It happens. Forfeiting points, being banned from the next race is so extreme, I don’t even remember the last time this happened.

3. Racing incident. We all want to see overtaking, this will lead to high risk, contact and crashes. Also noting that Max has completed lots of overtakes previously where the opponent has little choice but pull out. Right or wrong, that is undeniable. It’s also pointed out that a more experienced driver would have let Hamilton go (with a 35 point lead) and over taken with the faster car later in the race.

What I’m saying is that unless you have viewpoint 1, which most sane fans don’t, it’s time to move on. Even if Lewis was at fault, you can’t criticise him for the 10 second penalty. He could only race how it was presented to him.
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Nice post
 
You want a debate but not accepting any argument not suiting to your liking.
Your parents must be having nightmare with your childish tantrum.

Infordin said:
Hamilton is one of the greats. I am just bitter that my current favourite driver (Max) does not have an opportunity to compete on a level playing field, so let me vent in peace. :D
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Your bitterness chart must be through the roof after the last race
Must be tough for you.
 
Infordin said:
You perceive my arguments to be dishonest because you don’t agree with them. Simple.

If my arguments are wrong then it shouldn’t be that hard to debunk them.
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And plenty have debunked them. You choose not to listen - alas, another reason why you’re vilified.
 
Dargonk said:
This thread went about as expected. For me it's a racing incident as a result of both drivers pushing the limits. In those situations sometimes things go slightly wrong and crashes happen.

It's really sad to see all the racist abuse as a result, and how RB have handled this whole thing.
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Agreed. The RB response has been terrible. The only positive from them is that their social media team condemned racism. Would've been more powerful coming from "I don't take the knee" Max.
 
altodevil said:
I'm no fan of Hamilton - but this is F1 - shit like this happens all the time. Nothing can be changed, time to move on. Hamilton was at fault, unintentional and not an egregious error. You can't just DQ him for that move.

Agree with someone else's suggestion that Mercedes should be paying for damage, and any component penalties should be waived.
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I agree component penalties should be waived after crashes.

I disagree that Mercedes should pay for damages for a crash that was caused by both drivers, even though Hamilton was predominantly responsible.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Would you be saying the same things if Max had died?
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If that had happened, or even serious injury, I would want technical analysis of what can be done to prevent that happening to all drivers in the future. I'd want that added to the technical spec of all cars ASAP. Similar to the halo and all F1 safety developments in fact.

As none of that happened, it seems a moot point.
 
Dan_F said:
This argument is getting quite boring. It basically comes down to these viewpoints, bare with me.

1. Was it intentional? You’d have to be mental to actually want to create contact at that point. For both your own race and your opponents. Hamilton has never really shown anything in his career to suggest he’s a malicious driver. If you have this viewpoint, I’d understand why you are annoyed, but I don’t even think Horner thinks it was “intentional”.

2. Hamilton made a mistake and was at fault. It’s what the stewards judged predominately. It’s why he got the penalty, however, they judged that he wasn’t solely to blame, hence no stop and go. If you have this viewpoint it’s time to move on. If this happened in the midfield it would barely have been discussed after the race. We also have plenty of other examples of title rivals crashing into each other. It happens. Forfeiting points, being banned from the next race is so extreme, I don’t even remember the last time this happened.

3. Racing incident. We all want to see overtaking, this will lead to high risk, contact and crashes. Also noting that Max has completed lots of overtakes previously where the opponent has little choice but pull out. Right or wrong, that is undeniable. It’s also pointed out that a more experienced driver would have let Hamilton go (with a 35 point lead) and over taken with the faster car later in the race.

What I’m saying is that unless you have viewpoint 1, which most sane fans don’t, it’s time to move on. Even if Lewis was at fault, you can’t criticise him for the 10 second penalty. He could only race how it was presented to him.
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Fair points.
 
vangagal said:
Your bitterness chart must be through the roof after the last race
Must be tough for you.
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This is the first season where Max finally has equipment to challenge Lewis and he’s been schooling him all season. Why would I be bitter about that?

Hamilton made huge mistakes in Imola and Baku, and he was judged predominantly at fault for Silverstone. He was also embarrassingly slow in Monaco.

Verstappen has been fast all season and the only significant mistake he’s probably made was not making the move stick in Bahrain. A far cry from all the mistakes Hamilton has made.

Yeah I am bitter about what happened in Silverstone, but looking at the season as a whole, it’s been perfect for my own personal agenda

And yes, Verstappen is better than Hamilton.
 
slyadams said:
You keep, purposely, ommitting things. When a driver is alongside but behind the lead driver must still give space. Max doesn't do this as shown CLEARLY in the images I posted that you ignored.
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:lol:

So I guess that the overhead shot I posted, where Max clearly leaves space for Lewis down the inside, must have been photoshopped eh?

Or how about the FIA’s official verdict, where four drivers studied the incident and came to the conclusion that Max did in fact leave space down the inside?

Hilarious :lol:
 
The number of posts in the thread since the incident shows the sport needs at least 2 competitive teams and stewards allowing them to race. I don't recall this much back and forth for many years. Two great drivers head to head is what we've been craving.
 
maxresdefault.jpg

The top left image is what had me wondering why Hamilton was to blame. Kept hearing he was never alongside but he certainly was. Then we heard he missed the apex and max gave him room. Top right was just before impact. He's online for the apex by looks of it and is being squeezed. He's no longer online after impact.
 
senorgregster said:
The top left image is what had me wondering why Hamilton was to blame. Kept hearing he was never alongside but he certainly was. Then we heard he missed the apex and max gave him room. Top right was just before impact. He's online for the apex by looks of it and is being squeezed. He's no longer online after impact.
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Great pictures

Now compare the top right picture to his overtake on Leclerc. You’ll quickly find that Leclerc took the same line as Max and it was Hamilton who was properly on the inside instead of drifting wide.

The idea that Hamilton is being squeezed is laughable. Verstappen isn’t going to not turn into the corner just because Hamilton is alongside.
 
Infordin said:
Great pictures

Now compare the top right picture to his overtake on Leclerc. You’ll quickly find that Leclerc took the same line as Max and it was Hamilton who was properly on the inside instead of drifting wide.

The idea that Hamilton is being squeezed is laughable. Verstappen isn’t going to not turn into the corner just because Hamilton is alongside.
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Leclerc locked up didn't he? Impossible to compare lines because of that. Anyhow, the top right image shows Hamilton able to make the apex and max squeezing him in an attempt to make the same apex.
 
Santi would be raging about Hamilton not having been given a harsher penalty and screwing Leclerc

Agree though - his ban was harsh and he's no worse than others.
 
altodevil said:
Santi would be raging about Hamilton not having been given a harsher penalty and screwing Leclerc

Agree though - his ban was harsh and he's no worse than others.
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to be fair, he was a bit mad when he got banned and it was not only stuff in F1 thread
But I would not mind him back, we had some cross words, but he spoke his mind, maybe too much in the end.
See I dont mind Infordin , some of his posts are a bit OTT, but he will defend his posts and come back at you with something, I respect that, one thing I hate is posting something and then not defending it.
We all have our favorites.
 
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The problem with santi was he also had a tendency to be a bit racist when he lost his rag in the football forums that got deleted

I lost count of the amount of PMs we sent him to have a chat that he never once replied to, he was given more chances than a lot of people

he was mad :lol:
 
Snowjoe said:
The problem with santi was he also had a tendency to be a bit racist when he lost his rag in the football forums that got deleted

I lost count of the amount of PMs we sent him to have a chat that he never once replied to, he was given more chances than a lot of people

he was mad :lol:
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Yeah he did it a few times in the F1 thread also, no place for that in here.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
Santi, he was a saint compared to some in this thread !
I was thinking he would have loved this past few days.
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I think you may need to reword that, it looks a bit weird if you acknowledge that he made racist remarks and then call him a saint compared to others in here (unless I've missed some truly horrific posts that have now been deleted).
 
Zlaatan said:
I think you may need to reword that, it looks a bit weird if you acknowledge that he made racist remarks and then call him a saint compared to others in here (unless I've missed some truly horrific posts that have now been deleted).
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No I dont mean that , he was right banned for them.
In the F1 thread he was very passionate and it got the better of him.
But yeah I see your point, my post was badly worded.
No I detest Racism in any form and dont accept it.

Edited my post, Sorry If I caused any offence to anybody .
 
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