Not if being forced off, which he clearly was. I agree he re-entered quite dodgy, so can see why people complain about that.
F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
Whew my bad. It's a bit confusing discussing this with multiple people at the same time.
Not as bad as this week. Hamilton losing like that has pissed off all his fans. I cam understand to a certain extent, but give it a rest.
When I did the same earlier you declared you would ignore everything else said. Perhaps you need to calm down a bit. There's other Max fans saying Lewis didn't need to give the place back, but you still assert its such an obvious penalty that to deny it is to forfeit the debate. Really?
Yes because Lewis made no effort to rejoin the track. Also you're right, I'm gonna give it a rest because there's no arguing with you people if you think what happened in the first lap was fair.
Even other Max fans who have defended him vociferously in this thread disagree with you, but you again declare it so obvious there's "no arguing with you people". Perhaps you need to take a step back.
Totto didnt mince his words did he? "Lewis was robbed of his 8th world championship.."
The person you're referring to also said the way Lewis rejoined was unfair. You're not even addressing it. I've mentioned it 5 times now, no reply from you about how he rejoined. Have a good day.
He said he thought he should have given more time back, not that the place should have been returned. I've just watched it and I don't think Lewis could have rejoined much earlier. To rejoin in the chicane probably would have conceded a bunch more places (which he didn't have to). He took pretty much a direct path from the part he went off to the exit after the chicane. You can't cut much more off there because there's a wall:
So Lewis drove from where he was blocked off the track a straight line past the chicane and onto the track. What do you think Lewis should have done? If you are forced off the track during a chicane you are not obliged to rejoin and redrive the chicane.
If you'd like to provide any supporting information to your claim, which so far you havn't all thread, I'd be glad to hear it.
Spa was the tie-breaker enabling Max to crash both of them out and still win in the final race, though.
He's not wrong though, plus it's important they keep pushing this - if Merc roll over it's a clear sign to the FIA and Masi that they can do whatever they like, no matter the rules.
he never.
He said he thought he should have given more time back, not that the place should have been returned. I've just watched it and I don't think Lewis could have rejoined much earlier. To rejoin in the chicane probably would have conceded a bunch more places (which he didn't have to). He took pretty much a direct path from the part he went off to the exit after the chicane. You can't cut much more off there because there's a wall:
So Lewis drove from where he was blocked off the track a straight line past the chicane and onto the track. What do you think Lewis should have done? If you are forced off the track during a chicane you are not obliged to rejoin and redrive the chicane.
If you'd like to provide any supporting information to your claim, which so far you havn't all thread, I'd be glad to hear it.
I think Brundle knows what he's talking about, don't you? Even explained Max was ahead. You say I'm baseless, but I have Martin Brundle on my side.
OK, so your only supporting evidence is one commentator agrees with you. Yet the stewards thought otherwise, as did some of the other pundits btw. Provide something, draw a map showing where he went off and where you'd have liked him to come back on. Explain his line and what you didn't like. Do something other than nothing.
You're having a laugh mate. You want me to email you diagrams too? Keep moving the goalposts, I'm done with you
No, I'm asking to do more than nothing to backup your position, no goalposts have moved, I've been asking you to backup your position. I showed you a picture of the wall that demonstrated the path back to the circuit, you did nothing but show a video of the incident that we've all seen 100 times. In fact, your own video just shows Lewis driving a straight line back to the track, it seems you think Lewis should have turned around and driven back through the chicane. You're a joker mate, you spout sweeping statements then baulk when asked to back them up.You're having a laugh mate. You want me to email you diagrams? Keep moving the goalposts, I'm done with you
Let's try out this ignore feature everyone's been talking about.
I wish he would quite.
Easily.
Exposed myself.That's not even in the same ballpark
The irony after the state of your posts. If I exposed myself you are skinny dipping in broad daylight mate. Max brakes too late into corners pushing other cars off the track. Something else Masi has not punished.
Maybe look at the other examples such as Masi breaking the rules to award Max the win?
Our Max brake checking and not getting a grid penalty or disqualification?
It is clear that the championship was manipulated, firstly to create a final race "showdown" and secondly to manipulate the final laps of that race to enable Max to win.
Marko and Horner wish they would both quit !
Marko is even worse than Horner
“We broke their seven-year dominance with a young guy and a young, motivated team.
“It’s disgusting what they did after the race to protest when it was clear it would not work. This is a very bad loser for me.”
Marko is even worse than Horner
“We broke their seven-year dominance with a young guy and a young, motivated team.
“It’s disgusting what they did after the race to protest when it was clear it would not work. This is a very bad loser for me.”
Think this thread is too polarized now, so the best hope is to have move on from this season to next. My thoughts
Season : What.A.Season. I think it was a much needed season with two competitive seasons after a bunch of seasons dominated by Mercedes. It rekindled my interest in the sport from a "read the headlines and find out what happened" to actively tuning in to watch the race. Thanks in no small part to Red Bull, Mercedes teams and two immensely talented and driven drivers. It literally came to the last lap of the last race of the season as a one off winner takes all, and I've never seen anything like it. It was brilliant entertainment and racing. As much as
Mercedes and Redbull : They pulled their socks and made some good decisions for the last few races but I think overall, they would look back on this season where they made a lot of mistakes. In spite of Bottas winning more points than Perez, I think Perez defended Verstappen better than Bottas did Hamilton. There were multiple points in the season where Mercedes as a team trailed Red Bull. Perhaps winning the first title was motivation enough for Red bull. That said, changing engines was a great decision and provided Hamilton a much faster car for the last few races. Personally I think Red Bull car was faster than the Mercedes before the engine change, but don't know how to compute the advantage of a slightly faster car for about 15 races and a much slower car for the final 5 races. All in all, both teams contributed to a great spectacle.
Hamilton : Never understood some of the hate received by Hamilton receives from the fans worldwide. Brilliant and a talented driver. Spoke up against Saudi Arabian atrocities and generally comes across as a nice guy. Likes Senna and that's a plus too. Yes, there is some arrogance but champions do have arrogance. Knighthood is well deserved and his total number of wins and accolades speaks for itself. Personally I feel he is not respected like Schumacher and other legends were but each to his own. He drove beautifully, with controlled aggression and passion this year and handled things impeccably well. I'm not a Lewis Hamilton fan, but take a fecking bow.
Verstappen : Worthy champion. To set the pace with a supremely talented driver like Lewis Hamilton throughout a season is no small achievement and he has driven like a driven man. Some of his aggression bordered on the line but to beat a champion like Hamilton was nerve wrackingly brilliant. His team supported him well, even Perez came up trumps in the most important moments of the season. Perez holding off Hamilton for those precious seconds was some brilliant driving. Without that, Hamilton would have been well outside the lap window and could have pitted for soft tires without giving up position in the final race. He was unlucky in a few races and I think he would have finished the season earlier if he had finished the Baku and Silverstone races but he also got lucky plenty of times and also got the biggest stroke of luck in the final lap of the season. That being said, a worthy champion.
Masi : Even before the fiasco of the last race, I think he should have done his job better. Give more power to the race stewards instead of bartering with the teams to give or take a place. Yes, he is a race director but he's making himself a target for bias complaints. F1 has race stewards to take decisions, let them take it instead of putting his nose everywhere. Also don't understand the complaints of race finishing under a safety car when in the same season we witnessed the farce of Belgian Grand Prix. I do understand the motivation of final lap winner takes all, but the gymnastics made to arrive at that scenario feels made up for entertainment and not as implementing the rulebook. That said, I loved the spectacle myself so I'm a bit unsure how to feel about this. I think in general, he needs to take a back seat a bit.
Bias in this thread : Absolutely nauseating. Perhaps some posters n this thread feel the need to defend Hamilton from the abuse he gets outside but there are some ridiculous posts in this thread. Same can be said of nutter Verstappen fans. Mercedes was never going to take the decision to CAS or FIA, Safety cars has been used since God knows when and the lead is always wiped out, there were questionable decisions for Hamilton as well as Verstappen throughout the season. Some posters only want to bring up the bad ones for Hamilton and the others only want to bring up the points when Verstappen was wronged. Let's move on guys.
Final lap : At the end of the day, questionable decisions were made and none more questionable than letting some of the unlapped cars lap themselves while retaining some. At best, the interpretation was Masi didn't want the race to end with a Safety car and he wanted to lift it to allow one last lap, and realized that he can't let cars lap themselves as they would need an additional lap, so decided go ahead with partial unlap as the best of worst decisions he had to make. At worst, he was compromising race rules for entertainment value. If I was a Hamilton fan, I would think it's more akin to a dubious hand ball penalty given in the last minute of the UCL finals. I enjoyed the race and the spectable but I can understand the bitterness of Mercedes / Hamilton fans.
Cheers to both teams, Hamilton and Verstappen for giving us the best F1 season in ages. Hope Hamilton comes back and absolutely mullers Red Bull next season. All I want for Christmas is one more season like this one
Season : What.A.Season. I think it was a much needed season with two competitive seasons after a bunch of seasons dominated by Mercedes. It rekindled my interest in the sport from a "read the headlines and find out what happened" to actively tuning in to watch the race. Thanks in no small part to Red Bull, Mercedes teams and two immensely talented and driven drivers. It literally came to the last lap of the last race of the season as a one off winner takes all, and I've never seen anything like it. It was brilliant entertainment and racing. As much as
Mercedes and Redbull : They pulled their socks and made some good decisions for the last few races but I think overall, they would look back on this season where they made a lot of mistakes. In spite of Bottas winning more points than Perez, I think Perez defended Verstappen better than Bottas did Hamilton. There were multiple points in the season where Mercedes as a team trailed Red Bull. Perhaps winning the first title was motivation enough for Red bull. That said, changing engines was a great decision and provided Hamilton a much faster car for the last few races. Personally I think Red Bull car was faster than the Mercedes before the engine change, but don't know how to compute the advantage of a slightly faster car for about 15 races and a much slower car for the final 5 races. All in all, both teams contributed to a great spectacle.
Hamilton : Never understood some of the hate received by Hamilton receives from the fans worldwide. Brilliant and a talented driver. Spoke up against Saudi Arabian atrocities and generally comes across as a nice guy. Likes Senna and that's a plus too. Yes, there is some arrogance but champions do have arrogance. Knighthood is well deserved and his total number of wins and accolades speaks for itself. Personally I feel he is not respected like Schumacher and other legends were but each to his own. He drove beautifully, with controlled aggression and passion this year and handled things impeccably well. I'm not a Lewis Hamilton fan, but take a fecking bow.
Verstappen : Worthy champion. To set the pace with a supremely talented driver like Lewis Hamilton throughout a season is no small achievement and he has driven like a driven man. Some of his aggression bordered on the line but to beat a champion like Hamilton was nerve wrackingly brilliant. His team supported him well, even Perez came up trumps in the most important moments of the season. Perez holding off Hamilton for those precious seconds was some brilliant driving. Without that, Hamilton would have been well outside the lap window and could have pitted for soft tires without giving up position in the final race. He was unlucky in a few races and I think he would have finished the season earlier if he had finished the Baku and Silverstone races but he also got lucky plenty of times and also got the biggest stroke of luck in the final lap of the season. That being said, a worthy champion.
Masi : Even before the fiasco of the last race, I think he should have done his job better. Give more power to the race stewards instead of bartering with the teams to give or take a place. Yes, he is a race director but he's making himself a target for bias complaints. F1 has race stewards to take decisions, let them take it instead of putting his nose everywhere. Also don't understand the complaints of race finishing under a safety car when in the same season we witnessed the farce of Belgian Grand Prix. I do understand the motivation of final lap winner takes all, but the gymnastics made to arrive at that scenario feels made up for entertainment and not as implementing the rulebook. That said, I loved the spectacle myself so I'm a bit unsure how to feel about this. I think in general, he needs to take a back seat a bit.
Bias in this thread : Absolutely nauseating. Perhaps some posters n this thread feel the need to defend Hamilton from the abuse he gets outside but there are some ridiculous posts in this thread. Same can be said of nutter Verstappen fans. Mercedes was never going to take the decision to CAS or FIA, Safety cars has been used since God knows when and the lead is always wiped out, there were questionable decisions for Hamilton as well as Verstappen throughout the season. Some posters only want to bring up the bad ones for Hamilton and the others only want to bring up the points when Verstappen was wronged. Let's move on guys.
Final lap : At the end of the day, questionable decisions were made and none more questionable than letting some of the unlapped cars lap themselves while retaining some. At best, the interpretation was Masi didn't want the race to end with a Safety car and he wanted to lift it to allow one last lap, and realized that he can't let cars lap themselves as they would need an additional lap, so decided go ahead with partial unlap as the best of worst decisions he had to make. At worst, he was compromising race rules for entertainment value. If I was a Hamilton fan, I would think it's more akin to a dubious hand ball penalty given in the last minute of the UCL finals. I enjoyed the race and the spectable but I can understand the bitterness of Mercedes / Hamilton fans.
Cheers to both teams, Hamilton and Verstappen for giving us the best F1 season in ages. Hope Hamilton comes back and absolutely mullers Red Bull next season. All I want for Christmas is one more season like this one
I think maybe you find the rules of F1 confusing too. Did you start watching only recently?
Them two are a disease to this sport. Imagine their reactions if this happened to Max instead.
Agreed. Totto and Lewis wont be at the presentation tonight. Rightly so. Whole situation is such a farce.
Fair enough. I respect your opinion.
But the controversy is not about using safety cars.
Are you 12? You're on my ignore list now.
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There were many posts quibbling about the loss of a 12 second lead Hamilton had built up. It was always been thus. I understand and empathize with the unlapping cars fiasco but many people were genuinely complaining that he lost a 12 second lead and they were complaining about F1 prioritizing new generation fans. Bit of a head scratcher that as Safety car, yellow and red flag rules are not new. Hamilton in this very season benefitted with a red flag scenario. I'm just saying that F1 is out to get Lewis Hamilton is a bit tiring. If anything, Lewis Hamilton is the 7 time champion, on the verge of breaking Schumacher's record.
Sorry, it's just a bit baffling.
Makes me want to puke reading all these posts about Saint Lewis. Now they, the media, are saying Perez held Sir Lewis up. Well Bottas has done that job of holding up others and giving Lewis a tow for Mercedes for some years and it was ok. I am English but Verstappen won and I guarantee that if it had been the other way around, people would calling Red Bull fit to burn and sore losers. Now the poor love may not race again as he feels ‘cheated’. Grow up.
Cracking post Fishy.
That about ends the thread for me, no point watching rival fans go at each other over it any more. F1 has always been dubiously run at best, this won't be the last time they are this blatant with what they do, but at least it gave us a couple of entertaining races at the end. Roll on WF1F2022
Not surprised, I am also disillusioned and I'm just an observer.
Honestly I wouldn't be at all surprised if Hamilton does call it a day, because I don't know where he goes from here, not sure that I can see him winning the title back, so perhaps it is the right time to step down..
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Why don't you see him winning another one? Who's to say Merc is not going to ace these regulations as well? Would be a massive shame for F1 if he quit.
Personally I hope he retires. At the moment I can't give a feck about F1 2022, not after this, not after wasting a sunday on spa. It would send a message that would ring in F1's head for the entire season. And honestly, he's tied Schumi. Why put your health at risk again for another year to get fecked over like that again. Doesn't seem appealing to me.
I really, really don't want him to. I'd rather he win the title over Max next season than quit now. This could be a great rivalry in the making, assuming both teams are still on top next year.
Who cares when it's scripted? If i'm watching Hollywood at least I don't get a pathetic clueless weasel in the commanding role of the movie.
Well if it was scripted I'd stop watching.
You didn't think the previous 7 seasons and 14 championships were scripted?
I actually think it somehow is. Not within the season, but Lewis was champ because the FIA did not want to lose him as the face of the company, so they didnt nerf his car. Same with Schumacher and Vettel.
How many were under this man in the new starring role?
Anyway even if Lewis did come back next year, it would be a big big ask for him to forget what happened and perform with the mental clarity of this year. He's not going to be shit, obviously, but will he be excellent? I don't know.
Don't get all your hopes too high for another exciting season.
Don't get all your hopes too high for another exciting season.