F1 2021 Season

hobbers said:
Which is a line you've just made up.

Irrelevant anyway, F1's biggest market is the UK, and like I already said, the reactions to the decision making in those last few laps has been scrutinised everywhere.

Doesn't change the fact the end result is globally more popular. We're not going to have to revisit the England out the Euros thread are we?
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Its says the 'misunderstanding and reactions of the ... and fans is tarnishing the image of the championship.'

It is not popular.

And btw #IStandwithLewisHamilton was top trending on Twitter the last few days. Twitter is not just a UK thing.
 
hobbers said:
Which is a line you've just made up.

Irrelevant anyway, F1's biggest market is the UK, and like I already said, the reactions to the decision making in those last few laps has been scrutinised everywhere.

Doesn't change the fact the end result is globally more popular. We're not going to have to revisit the England out the Euros thread are we?
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I was listening to an article about the finances of major sports. And that said that the biggest market for F1 was actually the US. And in fact, that market is so big and growing their it is highly likely that there will be 3 GPs there before the end of the decade. With Miami being the 2nd.
 
hobbers said:
Why don't you just copy it faithfully?

"generated significant misunderstanding and reactions from Formula 1 teams, drivers and fans, an argument that is currently tarnishing the image of the Championship" It doesn't say ALL fans, and that it's an argument. You need two sides for an argument.

Still not relevant to what I said. The final outcome is more popular. More people in [the world] wanted Max to win on Sunday. That shouldn't be in any way surprising.
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It doesn't say 'only Lewis fans' either. Make of it what you will, that statement is negative, regardless of what wierd narrative you're trying to drive.
 
hobbers said:
...... The decisions in those last laps were heavily scrutinised and controversial but the end result is globally popular. Is that driving a 'weird narrative' or just stating the bleeding obvious?

A very popular narrative by the Hammy fans in this thread seems to be that it was all a conspiracy and the FIA were plotting to steal the championship from Hamilton all along. Why would they do that if not because most of the world wanted a new champion and therefore wanted Max to win?
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That isn’t true at all. The vast majority of this thread are unanimous in the view that screwing Hamilton was merely a byproduct of them breaking their own rules to create a last lap spectacle - they weren’t biased either way - they just wanted a show.
 
hobbers said:
...... The decisions in those last laps were heavily scrutinised and controversial but the end result is globally popular. Is that driving a 'weird narrative' or just stating the bleeding obvious?

A very popular narrative by the Hammy fans in this thread seems to be that it was all a conspiracy and the FIA were plotting to steal the championship from Hamilton all along. Why would they do that if not because most of the world wanted a new champion and therefore wanted Max to win?
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I think we're past the point of caring who is the champion. I certainly am.
 
SilentWitness said:
Anyone seen this yet?

Lewis Hamilton is 'disillusioned' after Abu Dhabi, says Toto Wolff

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59686315
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Oh I knew this would be a problem. I've merely tried to put myself in his shoes and I feel torn.

If he were younger, I would have said he'd get over it no problem. But after 7 titles, in the twilight of his career, to convince yourself at age 36 to risk life and limb week in, week out and for what?

He has all the money, all the sponsorships, a knighthood, everything. So much more to life for him to do as well.

Not saying he will definitely retire, but he will think long and hard about it.
 
Kanu said:
Yes. That doesn't mean I like to see 2 laps of SC. Can't even imagine what it was like for the fans at the track. Wtf is your point mate.
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You're incredible. In two posts you say Spa was a farce and that Max finally got some luck in Abu Dhabi. I would also take a look at this:


At the time I thought Max was lucky to get away with those incidents he did and I still think that.

Max would have understeered into Lewis 5 or 6 times this season if Lewis hadn't taken steps to avoid the collisions. Lewis understeers into Max ONCE where Max doesn't take responsibility to avoid and Lewis "nearly killed Max" and then in Monza literally would have killed Lewis if not for the Halo. In Saudi Max was actually found guilty of brake checking and he gets 10 seconds when a DQ would have been appropriate. But you'll keep going back to Silverstone and calling Max 'unlucky' this season.

Its an asinine, dishonest and ultimately pathetic line of reasoning.
 
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slyadams said:
You're incredible. In two posts you say Spa was a farce and that Max finally got some luck in Abu Dhabi. I would also take a look at this:

At the time I thought Max was lucky to get away with those incidents he did and I still think that.

Max would have understeered into Lewis 5 or 6 times this season if Lewis hadn't taken steps to avoid the collisions. Lewis understeers into Max ONCE where Max doesn't take responsibility to avoid and Lewis "nearly killed Max" and then in Monza would literally would have killed Lewis if not for the Halo. In Saudi Max was actually found guilty of brake checking and he gets 10 seconds when a DQ would have been appropriate. But you'll keep going back to Silverstone.

Its an asinine, dishonest and ultimately patethic line of reasoning.
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I never said Lewis nearly killed Max, so I'm going to ignore this.
 
slyadams said:
You're incredible. In two posts you say Spa was a farce and that Max finally got some luck in Abu Dhabi. I would also take a look at this:

At the time I thought Max was lucky to get away with those incidents he did and I still think that.

Max would have understeered into Lewis 5 or 6 times this season if Lewis hadn't taken steps to avoid the collisions. Lewis understeers into Max ONCE where Max doesn't take responsibility to avoid and Lewis "nearly killed Max" and then in Monza would literally would have killed Lewis if not for the Halo. In Saudi Max was actually found guilty of brake checking and he gets 10 seconds when a DQ would have been appropriate. But you'll keep going back to Silverstone.

Its an asinine, dishonest and ultimately patethic line of reasoning.
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Yield or die seems to be his motto. Pretty mental to be honest.
 
Kanu said:
I never said Lewis nearly killed Max, so I'm going to ignore this.
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Appologies, there are people saying that and I didn't check to make sure I was misattributing it. However, chosing to ignore the entire post because of this feels like a pretty cheap get out. My post attempts to highlight the dishonestly of your "Max was unlucky this season" by pointing out the variety of ways in which Max has been very fortunate. If you don't want to address it, that's fine.
 
slyadams said:
Appologies, there are people saying that and I didn't check to make sure I was misattributing it. However, chosing to ignore the entire post because of this feels like a pretty cheap get out. My post attempts to highlight the dishonestly of your "Max was unlucky this season" by pointing out the variety of ways in which Max has been very fortunate. If you don't want to address it, that's fine.
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I'm not going to dissect the entire season right now, but even in the last race Lewis got lucky cutting like 400m and not having to give position back. Martin Brundle said surely he has to give it back, but Lewis was allowed to keep going. Everytime something similar happened with Max this season, he had to give position back.

Bottom line: FIA is inconsistent, but Max is not an undeserved WDC. 10 wins, 10 poles, led more laps than every other driver combined. Was 1st or 2nd every race, not counting Hungary and DNF's. People act like Max fans can't be proud or happy to win like this, but those people have no idea what Max has done for F1 in the Netherlands.
 
spiriticon said:
Oh I knew this would be a problem. I've merely tried to put myself in his shoes and I feel torn.

If he were younger, I would have said he'd get over it no problem. But after 7 titles, in the twilight of his career, to convince yourself at age 36 to risk life and limb week in, week out and for what?

He has all the money, all the sponsorships, a knighthood, everything. So much more to life for him to do as well.

Not saying he will definitely retire, but he will think long and hard about it.
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I think he'll try and do when fergie did in 2012. One more year and go out in a blaze of glory.
 
Kanu said:
I'm not going to dissect the entire season right now, but even in the last race Lewis got lucky cutting like 400m and not having to give position back. Martin Brundle said surely he has to give it back, but Lewis was allowed to keep going. Everytime something similar happened with Max this season, he had to give position back.

Bottom line: FIA is inconsistent, but Max is not an undeserved WDC. 10 wins, 10 poles, led more laps than every other driver combined. Was 1st or 2nd every race, not counting Hungary and DNF's. People act like Max fans can't be proud or happy to win like this, but those people have no idea what Max has done for F1 in the Netherlands.
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OK, you want to make sweeping statements about how Max was unlucky all season, but not to actually look back at the season and justify your position. Got it. Not dishonest at all. Also just to note: in the video above Max was unpunished for Spain, Imola and Brazil, so your statement is 100% demonstrably false.

Please also quote the message where I said Max was undeserving. I never said that, so by your behavioural standards I could have just ignored your entire post.
 
slyadams said:
OK, you want to make sweeping statements about how Max was unlucky all season, but not to actually look back at the season and justify your position. Got it. Not dishonest at all. Also just to note: in the video above Max was unpunished for Spain, Imola and Brazil, so your statement is 100% demonstrably false.

Please also quote the message where I said Max was undeserving. I never said that, so by your behavioural standards I could have just ignored your entire post.
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You literally put quotes on something I never said. I said "people are acting like". That's way different.

Your video is not available in my country.

Yes I'm willing to make sweeping statements when it's blatantly obvious Max got the short end of the stick many times this season.
 
Kanu said:
Yes. That doesn't mean I like to see 2 laps of SC. Can't even imagine what it was like for the fans at the track. Wtf is your point mate.
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My point is, it is ridiculous to claim Max only got some "luck" in the final fix (race). When you consider no significant penalty for brake checking and being awarded half points at Spa for a non race.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
My point is, it is ridiculous to claim Max only got some "luck" in the final fix (race). When you consider no significant penalty for brake checking and being awarded half points at Spa for a non race.
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What about the first lap shenanigans from Lewis in Abu Dhabi, the race everyone is so angry about? If Max pulled that stunt, no way would he have been allowed to keep position.
 
Kanu said:
I'm not going to dissect the entire season right now, but even in the last race Lewis got lucky cutting like 400m and not having to give position back. Martin Brundle said surely he has to give it back, but Lewis was allowed to keep going. Everytime something similar happened with Max this season, he had to give position back.

Bottom line: FIA is inconsistent, but Max is not an undeserved WDC. 10 wins, 10 poles, led more laps than every other driver combined. Was 1st or 2nd every race, not counting Hungary and DNF's. People act like Max fans can't be proud or happy to win like this, but those people have no idea what Max has done for F1 in the Netherlands.
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Undeserved because, if the final race was not maniplated he would not be WDC. Not his fault, but that blame can go to Masi.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Max set that precedent in Brazil, maybe you should watch it back...
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That's not even in the same ballpark :lol: In abu dhabi Max was in front in the corner and all of a sudden Lewis is 400m in front a couple moments later. In Brazil Max was already ahead and stayed ahead and by a much smaller margin. You exposed yourself with that one.
 
Kanu said:
You literally put quotes on something I never said. I said "people are acting like". That's way different.

Your video is not available in my country.

Yes I'm willing to make sweeping statements when it's blatantly obvious Max got the short end of the stick many times this season.
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Its not blatantly obvious at all. You can argue two things:
  1. Has Max been unlucky with external agents
  2. Has Max been harshly dealt with by the stewards
For point 1 I think you can argue he has yes. In Silverstone there are conditions whereby he doesn't spin off (although I think realistically he has to take some of that onto himself, if the positions has been reversed, Lewis would have avoided and if needs be settled for the 2nd place and lost only 7 points, not 25). You could argue the Silverstone bad luck is balanced by the good luck he got in Monza that his error took them both out, in another timeline Lewis can continue and its a big points loss. In Baku he got a blow out, I've heard some respected pundits pointing out we don't actually know how hard Max was pushing and what state the tyres were in so to call it just bad luck might be simplifying it, but I'll give you that was bad luck. Similarly in Hungary he was unlucky.

For point 2 you are just factually and demonstrably incorrect. One could easily list a bunch of things that Max could/should have been punished for that he wasn't (Imola, Spain, Brazil, Abu Dhabi brake check etc.). I'm sure you'll come back with things you think Lewis should have been penalized for (e.g. the block pass in Abu Dhabi) and we'll disagree on those (note: I think Lewis going off track and holding position was fair, I think probably he should have given more of the advantage back). The point is just because you think its blatant doesn't make it so and you can't expect to make those statements without people asking you to justify them with some evidence. When they do ask you and you wave them away with something akin to "I don't have to, its obvious", that's pretty weak and you'll be called out for it.
 
Kanu said:
That's not even in the same ballpark :lol: In abu dhabi Max was in front in the corner and all of a sudden Lewis is 400m in front a couple moments later. In Brazil Max was already ahead and stayed ahead and by a much smaller margin. You exposed yourself with that one.
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Can you post a picture at the point where Max gets ahead in the corner in Brazil? He was ahead through the corner because he carried way too much speed and couldn't make it. Any driver on the grid can be ahead on any corner if there's no requirement to actually get around the corner.
 
slyadams said:
Its not blatantly obvious at all. You can argue two things:
  1. Has Max been unlucky with external agents
  2. Has Max been harshly dealt with by the stewards
For point 1 I think you can argue he has yes. In Silverstone there are conditions whereby he doesn't spin off (although I think realistically he has to take some of that onto himself, if the positions has been reversed, Lewis would have avoided and if needs be settled for the 2nd place and lost only 7 points, not 25). You could argue the Silverstone bad luck is balanced by the good luck he got in Monza that his error took them both out, in another timeline Lewis can continue and its a big points loss. In Baku he got a blow out, I've heard some respected pundits pointing out we don't actually know how hard Max was pushing and what state the tyres were in so to call it just bad luck might be simplifying it, but I'll give you that was bad luck. Similarly in Hungary he was unlucky.

For point 2 you are just factually and demonstrably incorrect. One could easily list a bunch of things that Max could/should have been punished for that he wasn't (Imola, Spain, Brazil, Abu Dhabi brake check etc.). I'm sure you'll come back with things you think Lewis should have been penalized for (e.g. the block pass in Abu Dhabi) and we'll disagree on those (note: I think Lewis going off track and holding position was fair, I think probably he should have given more of the advantage back). The point is just because you think its blatant doesn't make it so and you can't expect to make those statements without people asking you to justify them with some evidence. When they do ask you and you wave them away with something akin to "I don't have to, its obvious", that's pretty weak and you'll be called out for it.
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First I need to clear up the details on that first lap before I entertain you with the rest of the season. Lewis cut the corner and then just drove a straight line where he could've easily rejoined the track. Watch it back. If you honestly don't think Hamilton should've given position back, we're done talking.
 
slyadams said:
Can you post a picture at the point where Max gets ahead in the corner in Brazil? He was ahead through the corner because he carried way too much speed and couldn't make it. Any driver on the grid can be ahead on any corner if there's no requirement to actually get around the corner.
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The clear and obvious difference besides Max being ahead in the corner is the massive gap after the corner. It isn't nearly the same, but if you can argue that, then you can argue anything and there is no point in discussing this any further.
 
Kanu said:
The clear and obvious difference besides Max being ahead in the corner is the massive gap after the corner. It isn't nearly the same, but if you can argue that, then you can argue anything and there is no point in discussing this any further.
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Lewis gave back the time, just not the position. So bit of a moot point.
 
Kanu said:
First I need to clear up the details on that first lap before I entertain you with the rest of the season. Lewis cut the corner and then just drove a straight line where he could've easily rejoined the track. Watch it back. If you honestly don't think Hamilton should've given position back, we're done talking.
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Ok, we're done then. Its a block pass, its bad racing hence why there wasn't a penalty. Again, just because you think something is 'obvious' doesn't make it so. If you'd like I can find pundits/commentators that agree with me? If its as obvious as you say I shouldn't be able to find anyone to support my position should I?

Also, its absolutely pathetic that you'd go through my entire post, pick up on an 'aside', latch onto it and declare the conversation over. Your inability to back up a single thing you've said with anything other than "its obvious" or "we're done talking" belies the thiness of your argument.
 
Kanu said:
First I need to clear up the details on that first lap before I entertain you with the rest of the season. Lewis cut the corner and then just drove a straight line where he could've easily rejoined the track. Watch it back. If you honestly don't think Hamilton should've given position back, we're done talking.
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I'm a Max fan but even I could see Hamilton had no option but to go off track. Max left him no room. The issue I have with the incident is Hamilton gained too much of an advantage since he was much further ahead after the corner than he was before. The stewards said he made up for that somehow but I have seen no evidence of that. Still, it's a relatively minor thing considering he would probably have driven off into the sunset anyway. The race pace of the Merc was a lot better.
 
Kanu said:
The clear and obvious difference besides Max being ahead in the corner is the massive gap after the corner. It isn't nearly the same, but if you can argue that, then you can argue anything and there is no point in discussing this any further.
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I'm responding to your point about Brazil, dont' change the subject, provide something, anything, factual to back your point up.
 
hellhunter said:
Lewis gave back the time, just not the position. So bit of a moot point.
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That's a myth. Lewis didn't give back the same and even IF he did, its ridiculous because any other time a driver has to give position back
 
slyadams said:
I'm responding to your point about Brazil, dont' change the subject, provide something, anything, factual to back your point up.
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You said Max set the precedent, comparing it to Abu Dhabi. So obviously I'm going to point out the differences. You're getting a bit tiresome.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
I'm a Max fan but even I could see Hamilton had no option but to go off track. Max left him no room. The issue I have with the incident is Hamilton gained too much of an advantage since he was much further ahead after the corner than he was before. The stewards said he made up for that somehow but I have seen no evidence of that. Still, it's a relatively minor thing considering he would probably have driven off into the sunset anyway. The race pace of the Merc was a lot better.
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I agree with this. Lewis didn't need to give the place back, but he should have dropped a bit further back. Although as you say, it would have had little effect. Perhaps because the stewards thought the move wasn't fair, they weren't inclined to quibble over 0.5s-1s?
 
spiriticon said:
It is a bloody 'disaster'. Some maybe wanted sports entertainment, but I wanted to watch good sport. Its what keeps me glued to the season rather than just reading results on BBC Sports page. I also casually follow WWE and I get a plenty dose of dramatic sports entertainment and 'spectacles' there.

If Masi fecked up, he fecked up. He can't break the rules to correct it later. If a football ref misses a pen in the first half, he misses it. Can he reset the game 0-0 and give the missed pen to the team in the last 5 min of the game? I have never seen that happen. It makes it a farce.

I've had to explain what happened to so many friends and colleagues who don't follow the sport but heard what happened since Sunday. I'm getting tired of saying: 'I think we witnessed something that we shouldn't have witnessed on live TV'. I certainly didn't want to see that. I think my mood would have been better had I missed the race and read the results on BBC.
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Lewis Hamilton lost the WDC because of a feck up does not equate disaster for almost everyone. Anyway, never denied it was not a feck up by Masi, but the feck was not only the one you are mad about, it started from the first lap of the race to the penultimate one where he decided to not allow the cars to unlap themselves earlier.

It was a clusterfeck and it culminated in that final lap.
 
Kanu said:
You said Max set the precedent, comparing it to Abu Dhabi. So obviously I'm going to point out the differences. You're getting a bit tiresome.
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I didn't say Max set the predecent, you've got the wrong person. If you think someone calling you out on your baseless crap is tiresome, then I heartily appologize. You have other Max fans saying you're wrong.....
 
slyadams said:
I agree with this. Lewis didn't need to give the place back, but he should have dropped a bit further back. Although as you say, it would have had little effect. Perhaps because the stewards thought the move wasn't fair, they weren't inclined to quibble over 0.5s-1s?
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Watch it back. Lewis could've rejoined the track way sooner than he did.
 
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