F1 2021 Season

spiriticon said:
But Checo was ahead of Bottas no? So Botta's would have got less if Checo stayed in third?
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Maximum points you can get in a normal weekend is 44 points and that's from a 1-2 finish with fastest lap.

Mercedes were already 28 points ahead before the weekend, so barring Lewis crashing his car, Red Bull was never really in any position to win the WCC at all during the weekend as long as Lewis gets at least third and Bottas gets 2 points.
 
spiriticon said:
What about Max' 24 points for winning?
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He got them anyway so that wont make a difference to the final standings. The only thing that would change by Checo finishing is him getting 15 points and Valtteri getting 6 points instead of 8. Other teams would have been effected but they would have no impact on the points difference between RB and Mercedes.
 
Kanu said:
Max and Lewis have pulled away from everyone in restarts this year. Sainz should've been behind Max, but do you really think he would've been in the mix? Max was on fresh softs. No way in hell Sainz would've split them. Unfortunately we'll never know for sure.
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Yesterday we had a grid start in karting and I overtook 3 people on the start and held my position for a lap and a half despite my best lap time being 2 seconds a lap slower than them. It could have happened
 
Rooney1987 said:
Well that is wrong. Spar, French GP, Zandvoort and Austin, RB was fastest in most practices, was on pole and won during all 4 weekends.
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It's not worth it, the poster you're trying to debate with has been spouting the same nonsense narrative since the start of the year.

Hamilton and Bottas could have been driving the first generation A-Class and he'd still say it was faster than the Red Bull.

Unfortunately a lot of folks in the thread are here to do nothing but WUM. Don't bite and hopefully they'll get bored, meaning we'll be able to have some sensible discussion in the 2022 thread.
 
Was Hamilton right when saying that the safety car was going too slow? Or was he just being effected by his wish for it to go as fast as possible?
 
hobbers said:
In practice though CAS has never ruled on the outcome of a sporting event. Or even on the quality of the officiating of a sporting event.

Most sporting bodies I would imagine have certain provisions that mean they get the final say on those issues. Bad officiating in all sports is inevitable and many championships have been decided by bad decisions, but they have never ended up in front of CAS.
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CAS will not get involved in the event of purely poor officiating. However, in a ruling they have said:

1. Abstinence by CAS from ruling on field of play decisions is not a matter of jurisdiction, but of arbitral self-restraint. The rationale for such self-restraint includes supporting the autonomy of officials; avoidance of the interruption to matches in progress; seeking to ensure the certainty of outcome of competition; the relative lack of perspective and/or experience of appellate bodies compared with that of match officials.
2. The doctrine at any rate applies to prevent rewriting the results of the game or of sanctions imposed in the course of competition. However, the doctrine is disapplied upon proof that decisions otherwise falling within its ambit were vitiated by bias, malice, bad faith, arbitrariness or legal error. Within those limits the doctrine is compatible with Swiss law.
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This basically says: "We don't get involved with officiating because we choose not to. However, if we believe the officiating was in bad faith or shows an arbitrary application of rules then we will". This seems to apply very well here.

However, I don't think it will end up in CAS, a compromise will be struck.
 
Can someone explain to me in lay man’s terms what happened?

Also did Hamilton get screwed or was it right decision? Ideally would like to hear both opinions
 
The Hilton said:
It's not worth it, the poster you're trying to debate with has been spouting the same nonsense narrative since the start of the year.

Hamilton and Bottas could have been driving the first generation A-Class and he'd still say it was faster than the Red Bull.

Unfortunately a lot of folks in the thread are here to do nothing but WUM. Don't bite and hopefully they'll get bored, meaning we'll be able to have some sensible discussion in the 2022 thread.
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I dont get why people like you have this level of denial, even with your stonking bias. Why does it offend you so much to have this narrative disrupted anyway?

The lap times and speed traps dont lie, so why keep clinging to a dead narrative?
 
Ferguson’s Hairdryer said:
Can someone explain to me in lay man’s terms what happened?

Also did Hamilton get screwed or was it right decision? Ideally would like to hear both opinions
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Hamilton got screwed. There really is no alternative opinion cause that's not an opinion, it's a fact.

What might be debated is who between Verstappen or Hamilton deserved the title more, how bad of a feck up was it by the race director, etc. But Hamilton got screwed.
 
redshaw said:
I'm more upset about what happened the more time passes.

Allowing just some cars through just to get Max on new tyres alongside Lewis while he's sat there on very old tyres is just gifting championship win after all the hard work was done. Max qualified almost 4 tenths faster yet Lewis did incredible to keep the speed and maintain the tyres. Red Bull and Max didn't have answer and were well beaten, it was settled on track absolfeckinglutley until this Masi intervenes for a completely one sided final lap showdown that completely undermines everything and the whole brilliant comeback Merc have done in the last quarter of the season, it was fairly won by Lewis. Merc are also basing their decision to not pit Lewis that the whole field needs to be sorted and this will end under a safety car so if they pit and Max stays out they just hand over the lead and championship, they're simply not expecting some pillock director to fast track just a few drivers on the request of Red Bull.

Max is also flat spotting his tyes in quali yet gets rewarded for that and being 11 seconds off the lead with a free shot.

Finishing under the safety car in fine, the whole spectacle and the Max vs Lewis showdown happened, Lewis did the job, had he strolled over the line 11 seconds ahead or under the safety car shouldn't matter. Red Bull couldn't achieve any grandstand finish, they were nowhere. The fact that it went to the last race in very rare and good enough, they also had some racing between them.

Maybe for 2022 we should forget the races, lets have Lewis on 30/40 lap old tyres and Max on a fresh set and just have one lap shootouts at each track, that sounds like a great fair sporting event.

A farce and robbery. I expect the title to be always be with a heavy asterisk, with jokes and jibes never ending relating to just how farcical it was handed away like that.
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I tend to agree. Like you, the more time to reflect on it, the more dodgy it seems.

Blatant corruption. It is akin to match fixing in football.
 
spiriticon said:
I'm now starting to wonder if the whole 'exciting' season was fixed by Masi for the contenders to have roughly equal points on the last race, to draw in record numbers of viewers. Handing out penalties at key moments, letting things go at other key moments....

Ugh, can of worms.
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Imo there is no wondering about that anymore. I had my suspicions at the time earlier in the season but dismissed as unlikely. But now Masi has shown that entertainment or a new champion has been on his mind the whole time.

-Giving half points for a farce (advantage Max)

-Allowing Max to drive Lewis off the track in Brazil (advantage Max)

-Not penalising Max with grid penalty or points deduction for brake checking (advantage Max)

-The icing on the cake, handing the championship and final race to Max despite him being 11 second behind.

It really is laughable that Masi got away with it. :lol:
 
laughtersassassin said:
That's where your wrong though. Mercedes dominated the last few races.

Max dominated the season. Most wins Most Podiums.

Hell Max had more Laps led than Lewis and the entire rest of the grid put together.

He deserved the championship over the season.

Even with Abu Dhabi Max lost more points than Lewis due to lucky/uncontrollable moments.

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Statistics don't matter when you are level on points going into the final race and the race director fixes it so you can win. That is not a deserved win, it is given.
 
Jerch said:
Masi was race director in probably the most commercialy successful season of F1. I can't see them firing him after that.
The only thing he did wrong was not let all lapped cars go by a lap earlier which could have be done as stated by Alonso and Vettel during race but that still wouldn't change the outcome of the WC.
The decision that he let the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen go by was the only right one because otherwise championship would be decided by mistake previously mentioned.
And that decision is clearly in line with the rules given that they denied Merc protest and Merc probably not taking actions any further.
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Alright nostradamus. :lol:
 
Lentwood said:
Just a thought that I had, and I'll defer to those who know more about F1 and the 'behind-the-scenes processes' than I do...

Could it be at all possible that Michael Masi had somehow missed that Verstappen was running the newer, soft compound tyres and that Lewis was on 30+ lap old hard tyres?

Obviously to us all watching the Sky Sports/Channel 4 coverage, this was made abundantly clear over and over again, and we saw it unfolding lap-by-lap with our own eyes...but would Masi be watching the same pictures/coverage? What view of the race would he get?

I suppose what I am getting at is that COULD it be possible that Masi DID intend to manipulate the race to put Max behind Lewis but have OVERLOOKED the fact that it would be a non-contest, since Max had a huge tyre advantage?

In that scenario, Masi might have thought 'this will be great for a bit of drama, but Lewis is quicker (had been all race) and should hold-on. Did he realise he was handing the race to Max by positioning him behind Hamilton, and then have an "oh s**t" moment when he realised the true reality of what he had done?

This would also explain, to some extent, the 'it's a motor race' comment...because we all felt that was completely misguided/inflammatory given they weren't racing on an equal footing at that point. Perhaps Masi hadn't understood the discrepancy in tyre degradation/compound

Now, as I said earlier, I am happy to be told this is unlikely/improbable...it's just a theory I have to maybe explain why Masi ended up so blatantly handing Max the race....maybe he had just been following their duel in/out whilst doing his general duties, and thought Lewis would 95% likely hold Max off?
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No.
 
One Night Only said:
Exactly, even Alonso knows the unlapping was done too late, to get a real race lap in.
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Also


There was clearly time to do it sooner and that was the only thing they did wrong that they didn't do it sooner. But in any case we will got that final lap and it was always going to happen and the result would be the same.

Also no one mentioned that 5 cars that were let go by were cars fighting for the points (ended from 7 to 11) and blue flagging them (like they did with Stroll) for whole lap would have affect on their finish and points tally., Every other car that wasn't allowed to unlap was from 12 and lower.
 
They have to get confirmation I guess that the track is clear of debris and stewards to let them pass
 
hobbers said:
I dont get why people like you have this level of denial, even with your stonking bias. Why does it offend you so much to have this narrative disrupted anyway?

The lap times and speed traps dont lie, so why keep clinging to a dead narrative?
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Why do you keep quoting me? I'm not interested in your transparent wumming.
 
BrilliantOrange said:
Dude, come'on... Dont be like this..
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Ignore him is probably the best thing you could do, he's is struggling to come to terms with max being world champion.

max-gasly.gif
 
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