Extra incentive to overturn the decision.
F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
It actually broke some of the posters it seems
I have never seen more vitriol on red cafe. Are F1-threads always like this?
Try our match day threads. The F1 threads are almost patrician-like behaviour compared to match day threads.
The reality is F1 needs Mercedes, not Red Bull. Sure they wanted a Red Bull win this year to retain the sea of orange Max fans that have tuned in, but when he’s done they’ll all be gone. And the 1 season fans will all be gone as soon as it isn’t competitive again. The owners know that long term fans and people involved with the sport aren’t happy about what happened. That’s clear by the sentiment in the paddock.
The best scenario for F1 included 3 key things. A fair fight. A showpiece finish. A Max win. If they got all 3, you keep the 1 season fans. Grow your fan base. And keep the existing fans happy. But they botched up 1 to succeed in 2 and 3.
This is where the balance all changes. You only care about the new fans and spectacle if you’re not pissing someone off who is important. Mercedes are like Ferrari. When the dust settles, F1 simply can’t afford to lose them. Do I think the result will change? No. Should it change? Maybe. But what will definitely happen is whatever else it takes behind the scenes, be it money, be it influence on rules, be it whatever, to keep Mercedes happy.
The best scenario for F1 included 3 key things. A fair fight. A showpiece finish. A Max win. If they got all 3, you keep the 1 season fans. Grow your fan base. And keep the existing fans happy. But they botched up 1 to succeed in 2 and 3.
This is where the balance all changes. You only care about the new fans and spectacle if you’re not pissing someone off who is important. Mercedes are like Ferrari. When the dust settles, F1 simply can’t afford to lose them. Do I think the result will change? No. Should it change? Maybe. But what will definitely happen is whatever else it takes behind the scenes, be it money, be it influence on rules, be it whatever, to keep Mercedes happy.
I would say there are up to 5 posters who you simply can’t discuss things with. They are literally like children with no ability to be impartial. They turn this thread into a joke at times.
You always have fans on both sides debating incidents. It’s the nature of threads like these where not everyone on the forum generally supports the same team/person. And for everyone else except those 5, you can generally hold a good debate.
Imagine if all season, Liverpool receive favourable calls while United receive unfavourable calls. United is the better team, but thanks to referees, Liverpool is able to go into the final game of the season level on points with United.
Then, in the final game of the season, United finally receive one favourable call (a penalty that wasn’t one) to win the game and ultimately the title.
Is that title tainted?
F1 season finale was a manufactured farce and risks the sport's future
Michael Masi made a decision which directly shaped the title race
https://www.marca.com/en/f1/2021/12/13/61b78798ca474188408b45ea.html
Most f1 fans from most countries will know it is tainted.
Inaccurate analogy. To correct it, Max received the most favourable calls all season then the biggest favourable call in the final race.
I struggle to see how there is still any debate on this.
Wishful thinking, you live in a bubble.
Use the chrome extension which allows you to see dislikes on YouTube. The Abu Dhabi race received an overwhelmingly positive review.
The vast majority of F1 fans loved the season finale.
A pen outside the box? Yes.
Must be the Netflix fans
Max lost 70 points because of Pirelli and Mercedes playing destruction derby in Baku, Silverstone and Hungary.
Lewis still lost
Then you cry about the 7 points you lost in Abu Dhabi.
I didn’t know that Netflix fans represent the majority of fans? Because YouTube is probably a bigger and better sample size than you’ll get anywhere else.
The idea that decisions or luck in the final race/game of the season makes a title tainted, but not when it happens in the middle of the season, is an incredibly stupid argument.
Every race is worth equal points.
At the end of the season, Max scored 395.5 points and Lewis 387.5 points.
You can whine about Abu Dhabi, then I will bring up Baku.
At the end of the day, Lewis lost and there’s nothing you can do about it.
Water tight scientific proof right there
Yeah, doesn't change what we all saw happen. Lewis had it until Masi decided otherwise.
I would argue that a sample size of over 300,000 votes is significantly better than whatever evidence Fluctuation has for his claim (which is absolutely nothing).Water tight scientific proof right there
Somehow I'm fairly sure this notion that Max deserved it because he had more points after the final race wouldn't quite stand if Masi didn't decide the race and Lewis won
Lewis had the race until the safety car came out.
Max had Lewis on the ropes until Mercedes began playing destruction derby in Silverstone and Hungary.
At the end of the day, neither matters. The only thing that matters is.
395.5
387.5
Whining about how many points your favourite driver should have scored if not for XYZ will get you nowhere.
I guess it depends on youtube likes
I'm not looking to go anywhere. I'm simply calling it as I saw it and that seems to work you up a bit...
Just to clarify all, Infordin is part of the elite group of posters you should firmly not bother engaging with. We learnt this lesson last time, eventually people stopped, and he went away. Sadly he’s back, but the same approach will work.
If someone wants to make the claim that the majority of people hated what happened in Abu Dhabi, they best bring some actual evidence.I guess it depends on youtube likes
Hamilton fans, especially the English ones, live in a massive bubble.
Most people loved the season finale, you are just a vocal minority.
Yes, we get it, you don’t want any Verstappen fans posting. You just want a moaning session with fellow Hamilton fans.
It’s OK, you’ll get over it eventually.
What does that matter?
Go watch big brother or something if you want to see a popularity contest.
If your were appalled by the finish the first time, you are not going to watch it again on YouTube. Max fans absolutely would though.
I've not seen the highlights, but I bet they brushed over all the farcial elements.
Plenty of Max fans I’d happily engage with and do. Just not you. And ironic that you think I’m a Hamilton fan.
Imagine arguing Youtube popularity
My word, the level this can be dragged down to will never cease to amaze me. I know who the santi award this year goes to now!
My word, the level this can be dragged down to will never cease to amaze me. I know who the santi award this year goes to now!
The ignore button is fantastic.
If I bother with next year's thread, I think I'm going to have to use it for the first time.
Then again, I probably won't be taking much interesting in this "sport" again.
First, it's not a "disaster". Second, it's supposed to be a spectacle (not at the expense of integrity of the event of course) else why does any professional sports even exist.
Masi said that all teams had earlier discussed and decided that they didn't want to end races under SC where it was possible to avoid it. It was possible to have a racing lap but Masi absolutely botched it by not letting the lapped cars unlap themselves one lap earlier. The feck up started there.
I agree that it should have been all cars a lap earlier. Same result but none of this outpour of emotion which we are seeing now. It actually broke some of the posters it seems
It is a bloody 'disaster'. Some maybe wanted sports entertainment, but I wanted to watch good sport. Its what keeps me glued to the season rather than just reading results on BBC Sports page. I also casually follow WWE and I get a plenty dose of dramatic sports entertainment and 'spectacles' there.
If Masi fecked up, he fecked up. He can't break the rules to correct it later. If a football ref misses a pen in the first half, he misses it. Can he reset the game 0-0 and give the missed pen to the team in the last 5 min of the game? I have never seen that happen. It makes it a farce.
I've had to explain what happened to so many friends and colleagues who don't follow the sport but heard what happened since Sunday. I'm getting tired of saying: 'I think we witnessed something that we shouldn't have witnessed on live TV'. I certainly didn't want to see that. I think my mood would have been better had I missed the race and read the results on BBC.
It’s better than no evidence at all, which is what the guy I was quoting gaveImagine arguing Youtube popularity
Amazing how many people miss this basic point.
Eagerly awaiting what lunatic metric will be wheeled out next to justify this farceImagine arguing Youtube popularity
My word, the level this can be dragged down to will never cease to amaze me. I know who the santi award this year goes to now!
I started using it for the first time yesterday after thinking I wouldn't need to. I can see me getting a bit trigger happy with it from now on
It is interesting to see where F1 goes from here. It feels like it's all just going to be swept under the carpet though and not mentioned again
Yep. Imagine how sad your life must be that you’ve nothing else to do except bring straw man arguments to a racing sport thread… on a football forum… for a team you don’t even support… which is based in another country from the team you support? He probably gets a huge thrill from it, and yeah, he does manage to rile some people up, so potentially considered a success, but when the dust settles… the poor lads real world hasn’t changed. Or perhaps he just can’t stand it that his champion, deserving or not, will always have that cloud over his first championship.
ironic as that's all I see you doing about Baku, Istanbul and Silverstone
If you're going to use all of those as points, why not talk about Spa? it's amazing how you always seem to forget that completely free win also.
At the end of the day Max was 4 laps away from losing, then the FIA decided to crown Max the champion.
I'm sure their Netflix ratings will be as high as they wish.
Once again missing the point, astonishing.Eagerly awaiting what lunatic metric will be wheeled out next to justify this farce
All I ask is for some evidence that “most people saw this race as a farce”.
Go ahead, give me evidence.
Once again missing the point. Amazing, it’s like I’m talking to brick walls here.ironic as that's all I see you doing about Baku, Istanbul and Silverstone
I only bring up those incidents because I find it pathetic how Hamilton fans moan about this 14 point swing, while simultaneously ignoring all the crap Verstappen had to deal with this year.
If you lot didn’t cry so much about Abu Dhabi, I wouldn’t bring up the other incidents this year. Simple.
I can't speak for everyone everywhere. But I do know that German speaking motorsport forums are pretty much unified in thinking it was a joke. But then of course Mercedes also have a connection to German... unlike, say, Red Bull.
I started using it for the first time yesterday after thinking I wouldn't need to. I can see me getting a bit trigger happy with it from now on
It is interesting to see where F1 goes from here. It feels like it's all just going to be swept under the carpet though and not mentioned again
I’m quite confident change will happen. Not the result and perhaps not in the public eye. But I think there is a good chance things change.
We’ve seen a lot of Masi bashing in this thread and rightly so. But I did read a few pieces which made me wonder a bit. Apparently Masi doesn’t have a team of people with him, and whilst obviously more analytics and information than all of us watching, he has nothing like the data and team that the actual racing teams do. He is obviously responsible for the call and in all circumstances he should have got it right, but I do think they could implement real changes there. Simple things like:
- More people, who might be responsible for communications with teams so they get them out of Masi’s ear.
- More people to support on analytics and data to have minds working through real time information.
- An assistant race director, or perhaps even turning the role into a 3-person team to get more balance in decision making.
- A clearer understanding of race director and steward interaction.
I think (and hope) Masi is removed. But unless the next person is a superstar like Charlie, without change we might still get weird decisions like this.