Yesterday I watched a GP for the first time in 5 years and was entertained by the F1 for the first time in 20 years. More please.
F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
To make F1 great again.
Having had a night to sleep on it, I have to say that I am just as annoyed today as yesterday.
The rediculous decision by the race director and the stewards to only let those cars between Hamilton and Verstappen go past the safety car was and still is a complete collusion.
As was the rejection of Mercedes appeal.
Well done to Max.
And thank you Lewis for your incredible sportsmanship in the face of what must have been utter dejection.
They are the only winners.
The losers are the FIA who should be feeling utterly ashamed of themselves.
But that is it. The decision won't change and true F1 fans will understand what has happened.
Lewis Hamilton was effectively robbed in order for the FIA agenda to be played out.
The two things that are most sad about what happened yesterday...
1) F1 has begun to slowly gain popularity all season, mainly thanks to the epic duel and hard racing between Max and Lewis. Yes, there have been controversial moments, as with any sport, but overall, they have been dealt with within the rules and good/bad luck has largely evened out over the course of the season. I know loads of people who tuned in for the race for the first time yesterday, excited to see who would come out on top after such a tight battle. Straight after the race, the general feeling amongst these potential new F1 fans was that the sport was a waste of time due to the farce that occurred in the last few laps. There's excitement and drama in sport that can have you out of your seat dancing or sick to your stomach, and at times in can be controversial, but there's no excitement and no drama when the race is manufactured like that in the stewards room, that has the total opposite effect.
2) Micheal Masi would have manufactured that situation knowing full well that Lewis was an absolute sitting duck and that the decisions he made, ignoring the rules and all previous precedents, would hand Max the title. As soon as Horner said "we just need one racing lap" and Masi changed his mind about the unlapped cars, he knew that in doing so, he would hand the title to Max. That for me is absolutely unforgivable. It's not like Masi was backed into a corner and had no choice. He could have let all cars unlap themselves or he could have left Max behind the lapped cars, he could have red flagged the race (giving both chance to change their tyres) and put Hamilton and Max P1 and P2. Had any of those things happened, yes it would still have been controversial, but sporting integrity would have been maintained. I am sorry but whomever you support, there is no sporting integrity in what happened yesterday. Michael Masi effectively threw that and the other 20+ races out of the window for a bit of cheap, contrived drama. This what the spot is now? Some WWE farce to be sold on Netflix PPV?
1) F1 has begun to slowly gain popularity all season, mainly thanks to the epic duel and hard racing between Max and Lewis. Yes, there have been controversial moments, as with any sport, but overall, they have been dealt with within the rules and good/bad luck has largely evened out over the course of the season. I know loads of people who tuned in for the race for the first time yesterday, excited to see who would come out on top after such a tight battle. Straight after the race, the general feeling amongst these potential new F1 fans was that the sport was a waste of time due to the farce that occurred in the last few laps. There's excitement and drama in sport that can have you out of your seat dancing or sick to your stomach, and at times in can be controversial, but there's no excitement and no drama when the race is manufactured like that in the stewards room, that has the total opposite effect.
2) Micheal Masi would have manufactured that situation knowing full well that Lewis was an absolute sitting duck and that the decisions he made, ignoring the rules and all previous precedents, would hand Max the title. As soon as Horner said "we just need one racing lap" and Masi changed his mind about the unlapped cars, he knew that in doing so, he would hand the title to Max. That for me is absolutely unforgivable. It's not like Masi was backed into a corner and had no choice. He could have let all cars unlap themselves or he could have left Max behind the lapped cars, he could have red flagged the race (giving both chance to change their tyres) and put Hamilton and Max P1 and P2. Had any of those things happened, yes it would still have been controversial, but sporting integrity would have been maintained. I am sorry but whomever you support, there is no sporting integrity in what happened yesterday. Michael Masi effectively threw that and the other 20+ races out of the window for a bit of cheap, contrived drama. This what the spot is now? Some WWE farce to be sold on Netflix PPV?
Of course he was told to say that
There was no mention of any engine problems until the safety car. He was absolutely fine until they announced the race was about to restart and suddenly he had to have an emergency retire the car?
Obviously there is always a very slim chance of it happening, but some coincidences are just a little too strong.
Well u are wrong here. I am stating that constructor standings say so not me.
1. Merc also tried to use Bottas on many races this season. It just turned out that Max had a lot less trouble passing him than Hamilton has troubles passing Perez.if Red Bull didn't use Perez as their own personal Hamilton blocker all season, he'd have had a lot more points.
completely compromised his race today, then when he's on for a 3rd place they make him RETIRE his car for no reason other than to get out the way
they've done this many times this season, no wonder he's hardly got any points.
2. Perez was used in that way this race and from my head I think 1 or 2 more but don't remember races. But not on more occasions Bottas was used. For example Bottas was used just a race before slowing down and breaking rules under safety car while Lewis went in the box.
3. Perez didn't compromised his race yesterday by blocking Hamilton. He was behind Lewis and Max and was behind those 2 after the stops so he didn't lost any places.
4. Perez wasn't in the way of Max but if anything could be buffer between Max and next driver if all laped cars would be let by because he was third.
But congrats on so factually wrong post, incredible performance.
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If the Mercedes is so superior to the Red Bull, why is Bottas struggling away in midfield, taking multiple laps to get past Alpha Tauri's and Ferrari's?
The fact is, Mercedes had a shocking start to the season and Lewis did amazingly well to hang on to Max's coattails. As soon as Mercedes sorted out the huge deficiencies in their car and created more of a level playing field, Lewis won five* on the spin
Max is capable of insanely fast laps, but he makes more mistakes. I could name four big mistakes in the last two weeks alone that have contributed to his struggles. Lewis is an absolute machine who very rarely makes a mistake and pumps out relentlessly quick laps.
That isn’t true. Mercedes won 3 of the first 4 races and the one they didn’t was a wet race in which Hamilton crashed. The Mercedes was quicker in the opening races.
On mistakes, the above crash didn’t cost him anything due to the red flag. He would’ve been lucky to finish 5th without it. Baku was the biggest driving error of the season. I don’t recall Max making mistakes like that in races.
If you want to judge the relative performance of the cars by what the second drivers are doing, then you’ll end up with the conclusion that Mercedes were better.
I mean, Bottas beat Perez in the standings, and Mercedes won the constructors.
Yet he lost?
Its easy to "pump out relentlessly quick laps" when you have the fastest car. Usually when drivers make big mistakes its because they are pushing hard to make up the deficit in performance they dont have over their competition.
The only downside to drive to survive is that its created a new brand of F1 fan that has no fecking idea about motorsport and how to actually race. Things like block passes (what Max did on lap 1) are the absolute norm and the fact that when unpunished was a joke in itself. I do wonder if Brundle looks at modern F1 and thinks wtf when it comes to the shit that gets penalized compared to 20 years ago.
I fully agree with this. The 180 they did on the ruling on the lapped cars made such little sense, especially when seeing that all the odds were stacked in one drivers favour. If they wanted a true racing lap then it should have been a red flag, allow Lewis to change tyres also, and then start from the grid for a full showdown. If anything that would have created a bigger spectacle, but would have eliminated much of this bad blood.
I think Merc should have enough to have their challenge upheld, but whether they will overturn the title I am not so sure. Would Lewis want the title a few months later? Would it feel a bit hollow once the dust settles? I am of the opinion that yesterdays handling of the race was poor but I am not sure this can be overturned fully.
Well there you go, the closeness of the Constructors should tell you the cars were pretty evenly matched. The fact is, we can argue about who had the faster car or who deserved what...but yesterday Lewis and Mercedes outperformed Max and Red Bull and would have taken the title without an artificial intervention from Masi.
I don't especially care by the way, I am not (or wasn't) some huge Mercedes and Lewis fan...I probably will be next season now though after the disgraceful way that played out yesterday. It just feels like a huge injustice. Imagine yourself being in that situation, how would you feel?
Nobody said anything about the block pass. The block pass was fine. Lewis should have given the place back as Max didn't leave the track. However, then we can get arguing about what happened in Brazil and so on and so forth. These decisions are 'controversial' but they are an interpretation of the rules. What happened in the final few laps yesterday was artificial nonsense created for the Netflix fans you deride, and yet you seem to think that's fine because you are letting your personal preference for a driver cloud your judgement
I thought wums weren't allowed.
Looks like Netflix's The Real Housewives of F1, or whatever it's called, is the big winner from yesterday - think of the ratings gold.
Adrian Newey (you know the geezer that designs the car) literally said after the race that the Red Bull was the better car over the course of the season.
Perez was absolutely slated in the middle part of the season for being shite. He got an extension because Red Bull realised that giving him that security would help his performances (this was said by Horner and Marko). Perez has probably helped Max a lot more than Bottas has helped Hamilton but I wouldn't say he's performed better. Perez was genuinely woeful for a big portion of the season.
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Not to mention quoting Horner and Alonso, Alonso in particular probably has posters of Max on his bedroom wall.
Appreciate that.
Not really sure how people are saying Merc had the faster car through the course of the season.
The only time I saw them with an advantage was these last 4 races after they put a fresh unit in. Even in the first 4 races, Portugal was the only one he won comfortably, Bahrain Max should've won, and Portugal, they had a superior strategy that enabled Lewis to chase down Max. Red Bull then proceeded to win 5 in a row fairly easily while Merc struggled.
Take out the first and last 4 races, Lewis wins 2 of 14, Silverstone (Max DNF) and Russia (Max started from the back of the grid).
The only time I saw them with an advantage was these last 4 races after they put a fresh unit in. Even in the first 4 races, Portugal was the only one he won comfortably, Bahrain Max should've won, and Portugal, they had a superior strategy that enabled Lewis to chase down Max. Red Bull then proceeded to win 5 in a row fairly easily while Merc struggled.
Take out the first and last 4 races, Lewis wins 2 of 14, Silverstone (Max DNF) and Russia (Max started from the back of the grid).
Yeah I'm the same. I was really looking forward to next season and this new era of the sport but I'm seriously questioning the integrity of it now. I fear we're going to see more of this manipulated drama in the future. It was so obvious what happened yesterday and it only hurts the sport.
Times are saying Mercedes are going to withdraw the appeal. Putting the sport (and/or whatever deal they’ve got) first.
Very odd that withdrawing the appeal is the action that puts the sport first.
Hopefully that means the FIA have told them Masi is gone.
That's the only real thing the could have expected out of an appeal no? I doubt even CAS would have overturned the result, at most would have made the race null and void meaning Max is champion anyway.
That's the only real thing the could have expected out of an appeal no? I doubt even CAS would have overturned the result, at most would have made the race null and void meaning Max is champion anyway.
Times are saying they're considering it, right?
Passes like that haven't been allowed for a long time. You can't stop somebody else making the corner, and yet again that exactly what Max did.
Max dived from too far back, blocked hamilton turning into the corner and left him with nowhere else to go apart from across the run off. The officials got that one completely right.
Now if Max was a bit closer, dived up the inside and was alongside Hamilton before he tried to turn the car, you'd say that was a great move. (just like his overtake on the last lap) Very fine margins, but you can't use your car to force somebody to avoid contact.
If Hamilton continued to turn into the corner they collide.
You can't just say Mercedes were slower in all the other 14 though. Lewis should have won in Hungary, should have won at Monza, France was effectively the reverse of Spain, Belgium should never have been a race, Bottas won in Turkey, Bottas was very close in Monaco etc. You could go on and I am sure do the same for Max in the other races.
The number of pole positions for Mercedes and Red Bull shows just how even it was throughout the season. Yes, quali isn't always the best representation but the fact one rarely out-qualified the other by over half a second (I haven't checked to see if it actually happened all season), which was pretty standard for Mercedes prior to this season, shows how even they were over the whole season.
Just to clarify putting the sport first is the reason the article gives. I think they should burn it all down
Let's face it, yesterday was not Maxs fault. But his consistent dangerous driving and moreover his brake checking should've got him a points or grid penalty.
The reason he didn't get a penalty is because, as we now see obviously, the race director wants only entertainment and no integrity.
Is Max a great driver, yes.
Was he the better driver this season, no.
Was he handed the title by the FIA, yes.
If Masi keeps his job it's a total farce. So out of his league. He sounds like a nervous school boy on the radio.
They're definitely not putting the sport first. You have one of the best sports lawyers in the world attending, if anything he told them the rules aren't in their favour or at least vague enough that they're not winning an appeal so they're better off spinning it this way.
Because it isn't.
No it seems like they are withdrawing the appeal of the result, but they will still take the FIA to court regarding not following the protocols or they've struck a deal behind closed doors. I.e. let the WDC remain as they don't want to damage the sport and also if Hamilton was retrospectively given the title then what would it would look shit, but privately or publicly get confirmation of the FIA's feck up. I could see Masi resigning.
But yeah you're right, if they wanted to put the sport first then they should follow through with the appeal.
Then he switched and sounded like he was on an ego trip with that last lap radio call with Toto.
Oh come on. He literally finished 1st or 2nd in every race he finished this season apart from Hungary where Bottas and Norris crashed into him. Had some bad luck along the way as well (Silverstone, Baku).
I would've much, much preferred Hamilton and yesterday felt like daylight robbery for him. But no, the title is not undeserved for Verstappen even if it came with a bad taste in your mouth.
He was given it by the FIA. How undeserved does it get? He deserved to be in the title race and that's about it. That's where driving great 80% and like a thug 20% of the time gets you. Mind if the FIA had applied proper punishment for weaving, brake checking, pushing competitors off, winning races after 2 laps behind the safety car and being a insufferable little prick he wouldn't have been anywhere near Hamilton.
Fecking farcical to do Spa and then claim you didn't want to end the race under a safety car. It's hilarious some don't see it for what it is.
Think I expected this from Mercedes, going to CAS drags f1 through the mud and in the long run that hurts them. They know that fans will generally remember what happened and apart from the Max fanboys most would be able to see that they were wronged.
Nervous people who are entirely out of their comfort zone do that. I wonder if others, for example, leaders within FIA, have his ear during the race and gave him a nudge to move cars.