No, but under that scenario Max would’ve been a big favourite. New soft v new soft with no DRS, the chance of a Lewis win would be very small.
F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
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No, but under that scenario Max would’ve been a big favourite. New soft v new soft with no DRS, the chance of a Lewis win would be very small.
i’m not quite sure what you mean, but at best case it would have been hamilton having 1 lap to overtake verstappen, worse case he wouldn’t have even got given the chance.
It’s just frustrating that it happened so late in the race it gave them no chance to stick or twist really. if he had 3-4 laps to do something they’d have probably gambled.
no, it’s more the fact the rule is you either let them all go passed, or none at all.
if they didn’t let any cars go then hamilton would have got away, if they let them all pass the last lap would have finished before the end.
they decided to do something that’s never been doing before and only let the cars go between max and lewis. it’s a joke - but they got their box office finish they were desperate for
It kind of makes decisions even harder in future because you literally don’t know what the race director might do
Huh? The race director doesn't make this decision (which is a bad one) until later. Verstappen pits at the start of the SC because he has nothing to lose, but once Hamilton doesn't pit he catches back up to Hamilton and the backmarkers. If you pit Hamilton after a few SC laps you give him fresh tyres but you also put him behind Max and possibly behind Sainz and other cars. You almost always need to pit at the start of a SC to make it worthwhile.
What amazed me even more was just how quickly this decision was taken. So masi didn’t do it for 3 laps but then suddenly out of nowhere he did that in like 10 seconds everyone had lapped and Mercedes’ & Lewis had no time to even think
Merc didn't pit Lewis because the rules were (are) clear - either Max had equally worn hards, a load of back markers to pass in a single lap, or the race finishes under the safety car.
If they had any idea that Max would be given a free run at Lewis with brand new softs, they would have brought him in straight away and risked the potential loss of track position.
Genuine question here - putting aside all the nonsense at the end, wasn't Merc's strategy absolutely awful? Didn't understand covering up Verstappen as that essentially eliminated the tyre advantage they had coming into the race - and it put Hamilton behind Checo. Whilst I think it's fair to say they couldn't have expected Checo to delay Lewis to the extent that he did, Checo is clearly one of the top wheel-to-wheel racers in the paddock and has previous vs. Lewis at Baku and Turkey. The gap Checo eroded prevented Lewis from pitting safely under the virtual safety car...
So I guess my question is would having a set of hards with ~20 fewer laps on them have made a significant difference? Max won by 2 seconds in the end but obviously was helped by being able to overtake early in the lap - and if Lewis had been able to get to the straights he might have held his own given there was no DRS post-SC.
I suppose this is a bit of hindsight armchairing but can't help but feel like Lewis has been let down a bit by the conservative approach at Merc (obviously paling in comparison to the farcical circumstances leading to the last lap).
So I guess my question is would having a set of hards with ~20 fewer laps on them have made a significant difference? Max won by 2 seconds in the end but obviously was helped by being able to overtake early in the lap - and if Lewis had been able to get to the straights he might have held his own given there was no DRS post-SC.
I suppose this is a bit of hindsight armchairing but can't help but feel like Lewis has been let down a bit by the conservative approach at Merc (obviously paling in comparison to the farcical circumstances leading to the last lap).
What does seem to happen is every time it's a drivers last race they have a DNF!? So strange
It wasn’t the best way to decide it but this season has been like that, to watch Toto like this after dominating the last 8 years was amusing
It was equivalent to tying a goat to a peg and letting the lion go hunting.
I guess that's how many ABU fans and other club supporters felt when Fergie retired or every time United lost.
To be honest, he handled it way better than I would have. He really got screwed and got the championship ripped out of his hands, the fact that that room isn't in pieces is remarkable.
Well done to Max, but my god Lewis was robbed. Never been his biggest fan but he deserved to win the championship. They can't just make up rules as they go along, ridiculous.
No, Mercedes strategy was on point and Lewis managed the hard tires extremely well.
Checo v Lewis was really fun and great driving by both, but while that holding off allowed Max to lessen the distance to Lewis, Lewis still pushed the gap between him and Max to around 12 seconds before the crash that resulted in the SC.
When there was less than 10 laps to go, Horner truthfully mentioned RB and Max needed a miracle to win, like Lewis crashing or exactly what happened to transpire, in addition to the crash.
You can't overtake when SC is out on the track. VSC limits power units/speed, so everyone is kept in place as is distance, but everyone is going the same top speed.
To that, Lewis had to earn his way ahead of the backmarkers before the crash. The strategy was so good and he drove so well on his hards. Not pitting during the SC was well within reason because the rules dictated the race was going to end in SC. The team engineers had that all calculated out. No need to pit for softs unless they knew what Masi, the race director was going to do ahead of time...which they didn't. Plus, if Lewis pitted, he would have lost positions especially with only a couple laps remaining. Not enough to overtake those cars he would have been behind plus having to attack Max, who was on softs as well but with clean air, etc.
This was another reason the ruling made no sense . Why did Sainz not get a chance at Verstappen just like max did at Lewis
Can I use the word clusterfeck please about the end?
I'm amazed I've not seen it used unless I've missed it.
I'm amazed I've not seen it used unless I've missed it.
Lewis' tyre management was never in question - he did superbly. Hard to think of anyone who could put up a fight on such worn tyres as he managed to in the last lap!
My main question comes down to the timing of his first pit stop. I just don't understand why Merc thought it would make sense to have him come out in between the two Red Bulls - surely they had to be worried about Checo holding up Lewis especially as contact would benefit Red Bull. Why pit Lewis then at all? He was already 10 seconds up on Verstappen and surely would only have extended his lead over Checo with the tyre advantage. Just seemed really short-sighted - even putting aside all shenanigans, once you're out of range of the undercut (as they were), it makes no sense to nullify the advantage you've gained from a one-stop strategy surely?
There's no question Merc made the right call to not pit during the last safety car - especially given the information they had at the time (and the assumption that the race would not have the rules changed), they were right to stay out. My issue is that I think Merc let Lewis down by nullifying his tyre advantage from the start and forcing him into a fight he didn't have to take, thereby limiting his options for a completely safe pit during the virtual safety car when Giovinazzi went off (think that was around lap 35-37 if memory serves).
I shouted out loud when Mercedes didn't pit under the VSC that they threw it away. I was waiting 20 laps for that safety car. But their decision not to pit under the SC was correct, they couldn't have predicted the decision from Masi at the end to invent his own bullshit hybrid rule for entertainment which completely soured the race.
This was my thinking as well. I suppose they might have been worried that Max would do something rash but they must have not been too worried given they put Lewis out behind Checo after the first stop. Really an odd strategy all things considered. Far too conservative when it should have been clear Lewis had the pace advantage on the day.
Max literally started the race on faster tyres and was still slower than Lewis every lap. They should have boxed Lewis immediately after Max under the VSC the car was so clearly faster they knew they would have made any gap back. This win for Max was so undeserved. They started on faster tyres and were still the slower car, they got gifted a huge advantage with Merc not pitting and they employed Perez to do some superb teamwork and then let Max through and Lewis still left him for dust with tires that were over 20 laps older. After being told Max had to make up 0.8 seconds a lap to catch them, when it got to 10 laps left Max needed to make up over 1 second a lap and had actually lost time. Every single part of this race was dominated by Lewis and then Masi just picked the winner. There is nothing that Max did today that made him deserve the race, they threw everything they could at Lewis and still got left for dust but was then handed the win by Masi.
Completely agreed. And if they had simply doubled down on their tyre advantage from the off instead of matching Red Bull they'd have been in an even better position. They'd have had a free box under the VSC losing nothing.
Feel as though Red Bull have been consistently better all season on strategy. No question for me that Merc have cost Lewis points this year.
Its a bit like in football. The wealthiest clubs usually win.
In this case, like the early 2010s; Mercedes is Man United; Ferrari is Liverpool -- and Red Bull is like Man City, an organisation built for sports washing or marketing in this case.
What today has proven is that Lewis is the superior driver, but it doesn't really matter because F1 is now a script that will play out on Netflix and in the media at the arbitrary discretion of the race director.
As such, the winner will henceforth be the person who provides best storyline. At least i don't have to bother anymore.
If anyone was sports washing in the early 2010’s it was Ferrari with Marlboro as there sponsors.
This is one of the more hilarious myths i've seen emerge over the past few races. It is well known that for most of the season, the Red Bull was superior. Mercedes struggled for awhile.
There's videos online now of the man having the time of his life over there. Crowdsurfing at a party while singing 'Freed From Desire'
Recency effects in play there. Same problem with many posters in the footie sections too.
Fernando Alonso disagrees, as does Cristian Horner.
Red Bull was only faster until Austria, since the Silverstone upgrade Mercedes have been the car to beat. That’s over 50% of the season.
Yeah, and I also know who deserved to win the title.
The guy with 10 wins, 10 poles, and the guy who was robbed of 70 points by Mercedes and Pirelli in Baku, Silverstone and Hungary.
The fact that Hamilton was better in Abu Dhabi is irrelevant of things because Verstappen was better overall, from March to December.
People on this thread are struggling to comprehend the fact that the season is 22 races long and not one.
Well you are the expert in this thread on the bolded!
It is not undeniable because it is wrong, and you do not have to look far to see the many opinions in and around F1 that conform to such a view.
And hopefully a new job.
You misunderstood, that wasn't what the Mercs said, that is the line the FIA are taking
It has never happened like this in F1 history as far as I can tell, and despite claims to the contrary over some misreading the rules, the race director isn't supposed to make rules up on the spot in the name of sports entertainment. He governs the safety of the event, that's where he can step in and take control. In his own words, this wasn't about that, which is why Mercs have a strong case case if it goes to CAS.
Again, not that I think it'll go that far.
I was thinking about that. Rerun this season with everything the same, except Mercedes's and Red Bull's strategy people swapped (whoever that is and however that works) - and I think Hamilton may have had the title before the final race.
I’m still shocked by what happened. It’s so ridiculous
Still confused why RBs arguments were heard in a protest between Mercedes and the FIA. Why not have Ferrari heard as well? Sainz was also influenced by that 'decision'.
No. If Hamilton pitted, either Max doesn’t put (stays ahead on oldish hards, probably a sitting duck like Hamilton was) or he puts and is also on new softs behind Hamilton. So Hamilton advantage again.
Verstappen is never a sitting duck though, especially if both crashing out nets him the title.