F1 2021 Season

Abizzz said:
Didn't want to post yesterday to let things cool down.

So now cool and calm:
Another Crashstappen divebomb masterclass. Kinda annoying how everyone is looking past it because they want someone else to win for once. I really wish there was a Nelson Pique around for this kid.
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It's pointless to even discuss this guy anymore, i've never seen such blind ignorance and obvious stupidity with some of the posts i see online defending him, it's definitely the new generation of fans i see it from most and mirrors what you see with football twitter at times.

Verstappen knew exactly what he was doing yesterday and knew taking Lewis out would keep him at the front of the championship, dirty tactics and lucky to get away with a 3 place grid pen as punishment, i really wish Max was a likeable guy because he is a brilliant driver for the majority but if he doesn't get his way all hell breaks loose.
 
How many times did lewis and vettel collide when seb was at ferrari? Just saying....
 
Leg-End said:
Leclerc was the first to really push back against Max's aggression and I think in fairness he's adapted his driving because of it. Should those two end up in future world championship battles they will collide a lot. Hamilton has met the aggression with his own, something he really did remove from his driving style but if that's the game you have to meet fire with fire.
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Lando, leclerc and others will be just as aggressive with max when they have cars to match the RB. Max is making a rod for his own back. His sense of entitlement needs to be calmed down by RB, but it won't.
 
dinostar77 said:
Lando, leclerc and others will be just as aggressive with max when they have cars to match the RB. Max is making a rod for his own back. His sense of entitlement needs to be calmed down by RB, but it won't.
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Well that's it, he's gained the reputation and the blue print to beat him on level ground is to just match his aggression.

He's genuinely so quick that he doesn't even need to be aggressive like he is, occasionally conceding is an option, win it back later or live to fight another day. I reckon they will come together again this season, major or minor, the championship may just come down to who comes out better off in these collisions and strangely enough I don't think Max even needs that battle but he's started the game again.
 
dinostar77 said:
Lando, leclerc and others will be just as aggressive with max when they have cars to match the RB. Max is making a rod for his own back. His sense of entitlement needs to be calmed down by RB, but it won't.
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Yesterday was the first day I really though Verstappen is not going to live up to his potential. Partly, this is related to RB management, Silverstone put a marker down on how aggressive driving is treated and yesterday Verstappen suffered. I personally thought it was a racing incident and would rather it was treated as such, even though Hamilton was penalized at Silverstone because I'd rather see strong competitive racing get back to normal. But RB created this monster with the over the top actions.

Anyway, when I finally watched the race, I can see Verstappen was going to crash out. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say he didn't choose Hamilton to take out. But after that pit stop, the red mist descended, and a crash seemed inevitable. For all his potential, Verstappen mat be the one preventing him being a multiple WDC, not Hamilton, Leclerc etc. It's very possible he wins this year, but I have serious doubt now that he will. For all the folks whining about Hamilton on the radio, that was some teenage tantrum Verstappen threw out there. He needs stronger leadership and a firm hand right now and he isn't getting it.
 
No11 said:
both could have done something to avoid the contact. Either punish both or none.

This biggest car crash is right here.
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I don’t think this is right unfortunately. As I’ve said a few times in this thread, my personal view is it’s a racing incident with no punishment. But this is near enough identical to what happened In Silverstone - which I also thought was a racing incident but the stewards decided to penalise Lewis. Once they set that precedent it was correct to penalise Max here.
 
NotworkSte said:
Yesterday was the first day I really though Verstappen is not going to live up to his potential. Partly, this is related to RB management, Silverstone put a marker down on how aggressive driving is treated and yesterday Verstappen suffered. I personally thought it was a racing incident and would rather it was treated as such, even though Hamilton was penalized at Silverstone because I'd rather see strong competitive racing get back to normal. But RB created this monster with the over the top actions.

Anyway, when I finally watched the race, I can see Verstappen was going to crash out. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say he didn't choose Hamilton to take out. But after that pit stop, the red mist descended, and a crash seemed inevitable. For all his potential, Verstappen mat be the one preventing him being a multiple WDC, not Hamilton, Leclerc etc. It's very possible he wins this year, but I have serious doubt now that he will. For all the folks whining about Hamilton on the radio, that was some teenage tantrum Verstappen threw out there. He needs stronger leadership and a firm hand right now and he isn't getting it.
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I think though it is important to remember Max is relatively young. Hamilton was also quite rash as a young driver although he had much better management by McLaren. I do wonder if how RB enable him will stall his development in the longe run, but I do also expect that in time Max will naturally himself realise that that winning each battle in the race is not what wins a world championship.
 
Max is young and he will mature but he doesn't get a free pass on age or experience for me, he's competed in 133 races at the top level since 2015.
 
Leg-End said:
Max is young and he will mature but he doesn't get a free pass on age or experience for me, he's competed in 133 races at the top level since 2015.
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I don’t think he deserves a free pass. I think the conversation about his development as a driver and how we think it’ll trend, VS whether he should continue to be punished as he makes mistakes as he learns (which he should) are two different things. I don’t think there’s any suggestion he should be treated differently because he is younger.
 
i heard max doesn’t even thank the bus driver when he gets off at his stop.
 
rpitroda said:
I think though it is important to remember Max is relatively young. Hamilton was also quite rash as a young driver although he had much better management by McLaren. I do wonder if how RB enable him will stall his development in the longe run, but I do also expect that in time Max will naturally himself realise that that winning each battle in the race is not what wins a world championship.
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At what point does he pass the "he still young" mark. He is 23. Russel and Leclerc are 23, Norris is 21. I actually believe (probably unpopular opinion) Verstappen was done a disservice by putting him into the F1 seat at such a young age. Fast enough yes very much so, mature enough? Depends on the team I guess who would mentor rather than pander. I guess though Schumacher and Senna were older when they won their first WDC, Hamilton was about same age, Vettel was about same age. Maybe in terms of experience, and not time in F1, he is approaching the point were he should be expected to start to win now?

Your last statement I agree, he will realize what it takes to win a WDC, but after 130+ races though he needs to sort his head out quick or he might be a 1 or 2 time winner rather than 5 or 6.
 
Vettel won his first WDC at RB around 23 I think. I actually can't remember too much as I stopped watching F1 for a year or so as I was relocating to the US, but I remember not liking him too much at the time at first for some reason. Does anyone remember how he was? Young and aggressive? And how did Horner manage him?
 
Jaxa said:
It's pointless to even discuss this guy anymore, i've never seen such blind ignorance and obvious stupidity with some of the posts i see online defending him, it's definitely the new generation of fans i see it from most and mirrors what you see with football twitter at times.

Verstappen knew exactly what he was doing yesterday and knew taking Lewis out would keep him at the front of the championship, dirty tactics and lucky to get away with a 3 place grid pen as punishment, i really wish Max was a likeable guy because he is a brilliant driver for the majority but if he doesn't get his way all hell breaks loose.
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Honestly it's posts like this without any nuance or common sense to them that make it pointless to discuss anything. I get that there's mainly English people on here so Hamilton will get a lot of support and that's fine but some of these posts are so extreme it looks more like blind hatred
 
Could there still be a penalty for Verstappen?
 
F-Red said:
He's got a penalty, do you mean the engine penalty that he'll probably take as well in Sochi?
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i think he means more along the lines of a criminal charge for attempted murder. though verstappen might claim it was a crime of passion as it happened in italy.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Honestly it's posts like this without any nuance or common sense to them that make it pointless to discuss anything. I get that there's mainly English people on here so Hamilton will get a lot of support and that's fine but some of these posts are so extreme it looks more like blind hatred
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"Blind Hatred" yet i said "i really wish Max was a likeable guy because he is a brilliant driver for the majority but if he doesn't get his way all hell breaks loose."

Also I am not English so if that's your argument then that's out the window too, i see you are from the Netherlands so i will just go with it's pointless to argue with you also as you'll just defend Max regardless

Bye.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Honestly Wolff and Hamilton are just as bad as Horner and Max. Wolff saying the crash was a "tactical foul" thus deliberate is ridiculous. Disgusting from Mercedes.
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Let's face it, Max lost his head after the poor pit stop and saw red. Decided either he would bully his way through or cause a collision. Standard behaviour for Max.
 
I wonder if Alex Albon is in the simulator today going through the different lines of turn 1 at Monza.
 
Jaxa said:
"Blind Hatred" yet i said "i really wish Max was a likeable guy because he is a brilliant driver for the majority but if he doesn't get his way all hell breaks loose."

Also I am not English so if that's your argument then that's out the window too, i see you are from the Netherlands so i will just go with it's pointless to argue with you also as you'll just defend Max regardless

Bye.
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Never said you were English (though you do have Old Trafford as your location), I said that the majority on here is so inevitably Hamilton will get a lot of support. And the rest of your post is extremely one sided and lacks any nuance or common sense. Just like you're now disregarding what I said just because I'm Dutch. I always try to be reasonable on here, contrary to you it seems.

Fluctuation0161 said:
Let's face it, Max lost his head after the poor pit stop and saw red. Decided either he would bully his way through or cause a collision. Standard behaviour for Max.
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Based on what exactly? Honestly I can't believe so many here seem to believe Max would intentionally crash into Hamilton when it was still all to play for. Ridiculous really. This battle between Max and Hamilton, Wolff and Horner, is really getting out of hand. I had hoped Mercedes would have been more classy in their response to this incident than Red Bull were at Silverstone but they've responded the exact same way and poured more oil on the fire.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Based on what exactly? Honestly I can't believe so many here seem to believe Max would intentionally crash into Hamilton when it was still all to play for. Ridiculous really. This battle between Max and Hamilton, Wolff and Horner, is really getting out of hand. I had hoped Mercedes would have been more classy in their response to this incident than Red Bull were at Silverstone but they've responded the exact same way and poured more oil on the fire.
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Or that Max has all these crashes all the time. I feel like people are mixing him up with his dad. Max doesn't have a lot of collisions at all (until his current thing with Hamilton, anyway) and has been very level-headed about his racing more generally.
 
Cheimoon said:
Or that Max has all these crashes all the time. I feel like people are mixing him up with his dad. Max doesn't have a lot of collisions at all (until his current thing with Hamilton, anyway) and has been very level-headed about his racing more generally.
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Well I'll admit that when he first joined F1 he was young and a bit reckless but he's definitely matured since then. I think it's more his personality that people on here don't like. He wears his heart on his sleeve and always says what he thinks, the polar opposite of Hamilton who seems to have had extensive media training. That's fine, each to their own, but it doesn't mean that one is a saint and the other is the devil
 
It was a stupid move. Like one of those on a video game where you go for a gap you know isn't there. It shows he is missing something mentally though because with Hamilton on cold tyres, if he had stayed behind he would have had a better run out of the chicane and got a great run up to a perfect overtaking spot at the next chicane. A Championship winning driver would know that.
 
Watch youtube channel driver61 breakdown on it, describes it really well. Because Lewis hit the apex on T1 there was enough room for Max to believe he had space and attempt to hang on around the outside. If Lewis was more aggressive and missed the apex Max would have had no doubt in having to cut the chicane.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Based on what exactly? Honestly I can't believe so many here seem to believe Max would intentionally crash into Hamilton when it was still all to play for. Ridiculous really. This battle between Max and Hamilton, Wolff and Horner, is really getting out of hand. I had hoped Mercedes would have been more classy in their response to this incident than Red Bull were at Silverstone but they've responded the exact same way and poured more oil on the fire.
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Based on other drivers taking that corner in the same race. Based on Max knowing a Monza is a Mercedes track and just having had an 11 second pit stop.

Based on Max having "win it or bin it" approach throughout his F1 career.

It's not so much that Max wanted to crash himself. He would've either pushed Hamilton onto the gravel, gone ahead, or crashed them both out. He raced like he has nothing to lose.
 
Cheimoon said:
Or that Max has all these crashes all the time. I feel like people are mixing him up with his dad. Max doesn't have a lot of collisions at all (until his current thing with Hamilton, anyway) and has been very level-headed about his racing more generally.
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Do you even watch F1? Here is a little clip showing just a little of Max's previous "form".

 
Gringo said:
Watch youtube channel driver61 breakdown on it, describes it really well. Because Lewis hit the apex on T1 there was enough room for Max to believe he had space and attempt to hang on around the outside. If Lewis was more aggressive and missed the apex Max would have had no doubt in having to cut the chicane.
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So, some people say Lewis has decided to be too aggressive with Max, to match Maxs style, and is causing incidents. Now you are saying he is not aggressive enough... :lol:
 
hobbers said:
The stewards decision is what it is but the punishment is laughable. Not when you compare with Lewis at Silverstone, but when you compare with Bottas at Hungary. If what Max did yesterday is worth a 3 place grid penalty, what Bottas did is easily worth 20, served in consecutive races if need be. His balls up was orders of magnitude worse and hit several teams in the points and in their budgets.
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I don't know how many times it needs to be explained that the first lap and start of a race is always treated differently to the rest of the race.

It's obvious, but I'll explain anyway, cars are tightly packed together at the start and there is much higher likelihood of collisions.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Well I'll admit that when he first joined F1 he was young and a bit reckless but he's definitely matured since then. I think it's more his personality that people on here don't like. He wears his heart on his sleeve and always says what he thinks, the polar opposite of Hamilton who seems to have had extensive media training. That's fine, each to their own, but it doesn't mean that one is a saint and the other is the devil
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I agree with that (although young Hamilton was a lot more like Max and he has matured since in front of the media) and the idea that Max went for the move with the intention of taking out Hamilton is ludicrous.

One thing I would say is that Max seems to have got used to other drivers backing out and that's not the way it's going to work when you're in a title battle. Hamilton has backed out quite a few times against Max and didn't at Silverstone which resulted in a crash. I don't think Max has at all really and he has to learn that driving in a car not going for a championship is a very different proposition to the situation now.

When Hamilton is leading into a corner he won't give way, which he would have done 12 months ago. That's lack of experience for Max, but he does come across as somebody who expects the others to move for him most of the time. If he doesn't change this season, I would bet on him losing the title personally if the Mercedes can keep in range of the Red Bull.
 
NotworkSte said:
At what point does he pass the "he still young" mark. He is 23. Russel and Leclerc are 23, Norris is 21. I actually believe (probably unpopular opinion) Verstappen was done a disservice by putting him into the F1 seat at such a young age. Fast enough yes very much so, mature enough? Depends on the team I guess who would mentor rather than pander. I guess though Schumacher and Senna were older when they won their first WDC, Hamilton was about same age, Vettel was about same age. Maybe in terms of experience, and not time in F1, he is approaching the point were he should be expected to start to win now?

Your last statement I agree, he will realize what it takes to win a WDC, but after 130+ races though he needs to sort his head out quick or he might be a 1 or 2 time winner rather than 5 or 6.
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I don’t know when you stop calling him young. I also think he’s had enough races and time now to develop. But enabled by RB, he hasn’t got over that inexperience. I hope he comes to realisation over it. I think he is still sufficiently young to learn. But it’s also true he might never.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Honestly it's posts like this without any nuance or common sense to them that make it pointless to discuss anything. I get that there's mainly English people on here so Hamilton will get a lot of support and that's fine but some of these posts are so extreme it looks more like blind hatred
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I don’t see you call out the blatant bullshit by a handful of Max fans or Hamilton haters, though. Perhaps you should just do what all of us try to which is ignore the wildly blinkered posts and focus on discussing with the majority of people in here who can form balanced opinions, even if you disagree.
 
Cheimoon said:
Or that Max has all these crashes all the time. I feel like people are mixing him up with his dad. Max doesn't have a lot of collisions at all (until his current thing with Hamilton, anyway) and has been very level-headed about his racing more generally.
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Only reason he hasn't had more collisions is because everyone usually always bailed and let Max get his way rather than getting hit and ruin their race.
 
ArjenIsM3 said:
Honestly Wolff and Hamilton are just as bad as Horner and Max. Wolff saying the crash was a "tactical foul" thus deliberate is ridiculous. Disgusting from Mercedes.
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:lol:

Horner and Max has set the standard at Silverstone, Toto and Lewis are just going to shit bag the whole season and give it to Red Bull just how they dished it out.

It's entertaining really.
 
Its just great to see so many people talking about F1 again. Best season since the 2012 season? I hope this goes till the last race :drool:
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Do you even watch F1? Here is a little clip showing just a little of Max's previous "form".

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That's just over one per year and most are actually from his first two years. Not the strongest evidence that this is a constant and current pattern with him...
 
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