F1 2021 Season

mitChley said:
I think there was one before, an American maybe? Only did a few races
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pauldyson1uk said:
If you look at the racing circuit, Lewis Hamilton is the only Black driver… ever, in Formula 1. Ever.
Think NASCAR have had a couple
Shocking stat
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy_T._Ribbs

Willy T Ribbs is the only other prominent black racing driver that really made it to the top level.

Obviously there has been a few in lower levels but Hamilton is by far the most famous black racing driver ever.

It is surprising how little black drivers there have been over the years.
 
Adam-Utd said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy_T._Ribbs

Willy T Ribbs is the only other prominent black racing driver that really made it to the top level.

Obviously there has been a few in lower levels but Hamilton is by far the most famous black racing driver ever.

It is surprising how little black drivers there have been over the years.
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That's the guy I was thinking of, only tested, didn't race in F1 so yeah, only Lewis, my bad.
 
The Hilton said:
Can you quote the post that I stated that quote please? From what I remember, what we were disagreeing about was your version of history, where you claimed nobody dominated like Hamilton and Merc (conveniently forgetting Vettel at RB and challenging at Ferrari).

Still, I'll give you that I didn't expect Merc to find the pace that they have (and it looks like RB are struggling a little bit with balance too). However, RB still look to have the faster race pace, and there's only so many times Max can be involved in accidents.

EDIT: Never mind, I've found the post. Admittedly I was wound up by what I maintain was your ludicrous exaggeration of history. I also think it's a little early for you to be claiming victory here - wait to see what happens when Merc & RB get to have a couple of actual races first, it still looks like Red Bull are faster.
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Well you're now agreeing with me that Lewis has a shot at the title, so even if Max goes on to win all the remaining races by 3min you can't then go back to claim that I really was insulting your intelligence back when you used to believe that the opinion you're currently holding was ridiculous.

You're right though that we can't know what effect car upgrades will have and we can't know what's going to happen during a race weekend, which is the exact reason why I'm a bit hesitant over handing out the WC trophy when there's 10+ races left of the season and it's so close in the standings.

As for the rest, I really don't want to get into it again but I didn't conveniently forget anything, we just seemingly have very different definitions on practically everything related to F1 history. I think no team has ever dominated like Merc, you don't which is fine and I'd want nothing more than to leave it at that.
 
Adam-Utd said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy_T._Ribbs

Willy T Ribbs is the only other prominent black racing driver that really made it to the top level.

Obviously there has been a few in lower levels but Hamilton is by far the most famous black racing driver ever.

It is surprising how little black drivers there have been over the years.
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And that is what Lewis Hamilton is trying to change. To attract a wider range of races into motor racing.

But the most important thing is, why are we making so much fuss about the colour of a person's skin. We are all human beings, irrespective of the colour of the individuals skin. Surely there are more important things to consider.
And yet in 2021, this one issue divides opinion more than anything else. How mad is that.
 
Buster15 said:
And that is what Lewis Hamilton is trying to change. To attract a wider range of races into motor racing.

But the most important thing is, why are we making so much fuss about the colour of a person's skin. We are all human beings, irrespective of the colour of the individuals skin. Surely there are more important things to consider.
And yet in 2021, this one issue divides opinion more than anything else. How mad is that.
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It's sad isn't it.

I think it'll take maybe 2 generations of people until it's normalised unfortunately.

Global travel has only really become normalised in recent years, I'd imagine in some remote parts of Europe there's still no black people living in some places etc.

I know that many of the elderly generation are still quite racist unfortunately, and that obviously drips down.

I think until civilisations are so mixed that it's just normal to see a different face then it'll exist.
 
I think Hamilton will go a long way to bringing more black racing drivers to the sport as they now have a true role model to aspire to in the sense that they have someone who has been one of the best in the sport to show it can be done. It’s often easy to forget though how wealthy you usually need to be to make it in motorsport. It’s incredibly expensive, even when you’re young and in go karting.
 
rpitroda said:
I think Hamilton will go a long way to bringing more black racing drivers to the sport as they now have a true role model to aspire to in the sense that they have someone who has been one of the best in the sport to show it can be done. It’s often easy to forget though how wealthy you usually need to be to make it in motorsport. It’s incredibly expensive, even when you’re young and in go karting.
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Just looking through the Wiki's of the current grid you either have to have money or a family that's connected to Motorsport and sometimes both and most of the time parents that will back them from the word go.
 
Zlaatan said:
Well you're now agreeing with me that Lewis has a shot at the title, so even if Max goes on to win all the remaining races by 3min you can't then go back to claim that I really was insulting your intelligence back when you used to believe that the opinion you're currently holding was ridiculous.

You're right though that we can't know what effect car upgrades will have and we can't know what's going to happen during a race weekend, which is the exact reason why I'm a bit hesitant over handing out the WC trophy when there's 10+ races left of the season and it's so close in the standings.

As for the rest, I really don't want to get into it again but I didn't conveniently forget anything, we just seemingly have very different definitions on practically everything related to F1 history. I think no team has ever dominated like Merc, you don't which is fine and I'd want nothing more than to leave it at that.
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Yeah that's fair enough, I agree that no team has dominated like them, but I disagree that it was always down to the car. Anyway, I also don't have any interest in going over all of it again.

As for this season, I think Lewis has a shot, but he's really up against it. It looks like Max still has the faster car, at least over race distance, so he's gonna need some luck. But you've gotta admit, the difference is like night and day from before Silverstone, maybe Merc changed their approach from focusing entirely on next year?
 
The Hilton said:
Yeah that's fair enough, I agree that no team has dominated like them, but I disagree that it was always down to the car. Anyway, I also don't have any interest in going over all of it again.

As for this season, I think Lewis has a shot, but he's really up against it. It looks like Max still has the faster car, at least over race distance, so he's gonna need some luck. But you've gotta admit, the difference is like night and day from before Silverstone, maybe Merc changed their approach from focusing entirely on next year?
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It's hard to say since we haven't really had a chance to compare Merc and RB since Merc upgraded their car, all we've got is Lewis going 2 for 2 in qualifying and Max pulling away during the sprint race. So I don't know where they stand at the moment really, all I'm hoping for is that it's close all the way to the end.
 
Zlaatan said:
It's hard to say since we haven't really had a chance to compare Merc and RB since Merc upgraded their car, all we've got is Lewis going 2 for 2 in qualifying and Max pulling away during the sprint race. So I don't know where they stand at the moment really, all I'm hoping for is that it's close all the way to the end.
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All the teams will have now stopped any development of new parts on the current cars and switched over totally to next seasons car. They will obviously try to get the very last ounce out of this years package.

Agree that we dont know where the Mercs and RBs are in relation to each other. Mercs didnt bring any updates for awhile then brought a slew of updates for Silverstone. I suspect that that the RB is still the better car by 0.2 of a second. The electric deployment is longer than that of the Mercs which will help on tracks such as Spa and Monza. Also RB can run less drag on their rear wing which will help them again.

However both Max and Perez will face engine penalties somewhere in the 2nd half of the season as Horner confirmed that they will have to use 4 engines each and only 3 per driver for the course of the season is permitted.

Also the damage from the last two races will have hit RB somewhere in their plans financially.

I can see Max winning the next two races (spa and dutch gp), but i hope it goes down to the last race of the year. That would be awesome.
 
christy87 said:
Just looking through the Wiki's of the current grid you either have to have money or a family that's connected to Motorsport and sometimes both and most of the time parents that will back them from the word go.
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Spot on. Which makes Lewis's achievements in the face of adversity even more impressive.

Also, as I understand, Ocon had humble upbringings so I was very happy to see him win at the weekend.
 
Fridge chutney said:
Spot on. Which makes Lewis's achievements in the face of adversity even more impressive.

Also, as I understand, Ocon had humble upbringings so I was very happy to see him win at the weekend.
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Yes, I believe the same. Was pleased for him. Would be nice to have a "non cash rich" driver make it again.
 
I give up on Formula 1.

In 2 races Mercedes have;

Taken 6 cars out (3 of them their direct rivals)
Destroyed 2 Red bull engines
Taken Hamilton’s only rival out twice
Ensured red bull get engine penalties
Cost teams millions in damage

Mercedes walk away extending both of their championship leads. What the actual feck…….
 
Adam-Utd said:
It's sad isn't it.

I think it'll take maybe 2 generations of people until it's normalised unfortunately.

Global travel has only really become normalised in recent years, I'd imagine in some remote parts of Europe there's still no black people living in some places etc.

I know that many of the elderly generation are still quite racist unfortunately, and that obviously drips down.

I think until civilisations are so mixed that it's just normal to see a different face then it'll exist.
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Agree with all of this. I am hopeful that the next generation will be far more understanding than ours.
 
Moiraine said:
I give up on Formula 1.

In 2 races Mercedes have;

Taken 6 cars out (3 of them their direct rivals)
Destroyed 2 Red bull engines
Taken Hamilton’s only rival out twice
Ensured red bull get engine penalties
Cost teams millions in damage

Mercedes walk away extending both of their championship leads. What the actual feck…….
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I guess your new to F1 or a younger generation. Compared to how unreliable cars were in Schmacher era, things blowing up regularly or the balls to the walls racing of senna/mansell/prost/piquet this has been fairly timid overall in terms of cost. Its called motor racing for a reason. These things balance out over a course of a season. Mercedes have dropped huge points this season and will bound to between now and end of season. RB will drop points and gain points between now and end of season.
 
Moiraine said:
I give up on Formula 1.

In 2 races Mercedes have;

Taken 6 cars out (3 of them their direct rivals)
Destroyed 2 Red bull engines
Taken Hamilton’s only rival out twice
Ensured red bull get engine penalties
Cost teams millions in damage

Mercedes walk away extending both of their championship leads. What the actual feck…….
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Welcome to F1. Things can change very quickly.

It is the football equivalent of having lots of injured players at the club or having key players come back from injuries at key time. Ups and downs.
 
Moiraine said:
I give up on Formula 1.

In 2 races Mercedes have;

Taken 6 cars out (3 of them their direct rivals)
Destroyed 2 Red bull engines
Taken Hamilton’s only rival out twice
Ensured red bull get engine penalties
Cost teams millions in damage

Mercedes walk away extending both of their championship leads. What the actual feck…….
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What a shame. A shame that you think that F1 or any other type of racing is risk free and without any form of contact or accidents.

Yes of course Bottas made an error. That happens.
And yes of course, when you get 2 cars of similar pace 2 meters wide driven by 2 drivers, neither of who wants to yield, you are going to get contact.
That is why it is called racing and why millions of people all over the world follow it.
But not you any longer. Shame about that.
 
Moiraine said:
I give up on Formula 1.

In 2 races Mercedes have;

Taken 6 cars out (3 of them their direct rivals)
Destroyed 2 Red bull engines
Taken Hamilton’s only rival out twice
Ensured red bull get engine penalties
Cost teams millions in damage

Mercedes walk away extending both of their championship leads. What the actual feck…….
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So I take you think this is a big plan by Mercedes to just take out the opposition?
Sorry I think this post is way off the mark.
Its racing and shit happens.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Yes, I believe the same. Was pleased for him. Would be nice to have a "non cash rich" driver make it again.
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The two biggest drivers of the past decade both had relatively humble upbringings. You got to wonder how much talent is being missed out on due to the insane costs of the junior series.
 
Buster15 said:
And that is what Lewis Hamilton is trying to change. To attract a wider range of races into motor racing.

But the most important thing is, why are we making so much fuss about the colour of a person's skin. We are all human beings, irrespective of the colour of the individuals skin. Surely there are more important things to consider.
And yet in 2021, this one issue divides opinion more than anything else. How mad is that.
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There are a lot of people who dislike him for pointing out the point that ethnic minorities are vastly underrepresented in the the sport.
 
spontaneus1 said:
The two biggest drivers of the past decade both had relatively humble upbringings. You got to wonder how much talent is being missed out on due to the insane costs of the junior series.
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Who are you referring to Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso?
 
Fully Fledged said:
There are a lot of people who dislike him for pointing out the point that ethnic minorities are vastly underrepresented in the the sport.
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One thing you can definitely say about Lewis Hamilton is that he is not afraid of speaking out against inequality at any level. And I respect him as much for that as his brilliance as a racing driver.
He is happy at being booed because he knows that he is getting through to people. Especially racists.
 
Moiraine said:
I give up on Formula 1.

In 2 races Mercedes have;

Taken 6 cars out (3 of them their direct rivals)
Destroyed 2 Red bull engines
Taken Hamilton’s only rival out twice
Ensured red bull get engine penalties
Cost teams millions in damage

Mercedes walk away extending both of their championship leads. What the actual feck…….
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Boo fricking hoo :lol:.

I've seen this sorta thing happen in local racing muchless.
 
Honestly the fanboyism in the sport is becoming ridiculous.
 
Buster15 said:
One thing you can definitely say about Lewis Hamilton is that he is not afraid of speaking out against inequality at any level. And I respect him as much for that as his brilliance as a racing driver.
He is happy at being booed because he knows that he is getting through to people. Especially racists.
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Oh I agree totally that he steps out of the comfort zone to tackle important issues regardless of the abuse he suffers for it. The same can be said for Rashford. Both heroes for standing up for people who don't have the platform they have.
 
elmo said:
Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel were those with humbler upbringings compared to most the rich kids on the grid currently. Riccardo was probably from an ordinary family as well, I think the town he's from was pretty small, so his folks can't be that well off, but probably had a very comfortable upbringing.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/billionaires-sons-only-mark-hughes-on-money-and-talent-in-f1/
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Great link, interesting comment

..."All that said, it’s quite interesting that the last four pre-eminent drivers in F1 – Lewis Hamilton, Sebastian Vettel, Fernando Alonso and Michael Schumacher – are all from very ordinary backgrounds...."

Coincidence? A correlation that you shouldn't read too much into?

Here are the backgrounds of the rest of the current grid: (2020 season).

Valtteri Bottas – Father had a small cleaning company, mother was an undertaker

Max Verstappen – Son of ex-F1 driver Jos and quick karting racer Sophie Kumpen

Alex Albon – Son of sometime racer Nigel and Thai businesswoman Kankamol

Sergio Perez – Son of a fairly wealthy businessman and politician

Lance Stroll – Son of billionaire businessman Lawrence

Daniel Ricciardo – Father ran a medium-sized transport company

Esteban Ocon – Son of Laurent, owner of a small local garage

Lando Norris – Son of wealthy pension manager Adam

Carlos Sainz Jr – Son of legendary world rally champion Carlos

Pierre Gasly – Born into a motor racing family, but not believed to be a wealthy one

Daniil Kvyat – Son of Vyacheslav, a financial director with a Russian energy company

Charles Leclerc – Son of the late Herve Leclerc, former F3 driver. Not believed to be wealthy

Kimi Raikkonen – Modest family background, father a forestry worker

Antonio Giovinazzi – Modest family background, father a salesman

Kevin Magnussen – Son of ex-F1 driver Jan

Romain Grosjean – Son of a bank employee with a motorsports interest

George Russell – Son of small business owner Steve

Nicholas Latifi – Son of billionaire businessman Michael
 
Gringo said:
Honestly the fanboyism in the sport is becoming ridiculous.
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If what you refer to as fanboyism is actually individuals who have a particular favourite team/driver and who by definition want their driver to beat their rivals, then I see nothing wrong with that.

Many of us have waited years for a genuine contest between the best teams and drivers. With proper close racing and proper drama and suspense. And so ft, 2021 has exactly that.

Rivalry is healthy. And yes, sometimes it goes a little too far.
But that is just passion and not that different to football rivalry.
 
dinostar77 said:
Great link, interesting comment

..."All that said, it’s quite interesting that the last four pre-eminent drivers in F1 – Lewis Hamilton, Sebastian Vettel, Fernando Alonso and Michael Schumacher – are all from very ordinary backgrounds...."

Coincidence? A correlation that you shouldn't read too much into?

Here are the backgrounds of the rest of the current grid: (2020 season).

Valtteri Bottas – Father had a small cleaning company, mother was an undertaker

Max Verstappen – Son of ex-F1 driver Jos and quick karting racer Sophie Kumpen

Alex Albon – Son of sometime racer Nigel and Thai businesswoman Kankamol

Sergio Perez – Son of a fairly wealthy businessman and politician

Lance Stroll – Son of billionaire businessman Lawrence

Daniel Ricciardo – Father ran a medium-sized transport company

Esteban Ocon – Son of Laurent, owner of a small local garage

Lando Norris – Son of wealthy pension manager Adam

Carlos Sainz Jr – Son of legendary world rally champion Carlos

Pierre Gasly – Born into a motor racing family, but not believed to be a wealthy one

Daniil Kvyat – Son of Vyacheslav, a financial director with a Russian energy company

Charles Leclerc – Son of the late Herve Leclerc, former F3 driver. Not believed to be wealthy

Kimi Raikkonen – Modest family background, father a forestry worker

Antonio Giovinazzi – Modest family background, father a salesman

Kevin Magnussen – Son of ex-F1 driver Jan

Romain Grosjean – Son of a bank employee with a motorsports interest

George Russell – Son of small business owner Steve

Nicholas Latifi – Son of billionaire businessman Michael
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The one that surprised me is Leclerc. Being from Monaco I just assumed he was from a mega rich family :lol:
 
A shout out to the utterly brillant Tom Clarkson "Beyond the Grid" podcast on spotify. Dont just listen to the current drivers, managers, engineers designers etc. Have a listen to the guys from the past. Some great absorbing stories. I normally listen when doing DIY or gardening.

You get some interesting insight into eras before you were born or information you were never aware about. Apparently Jim Clark was very very fast. For some of these older guys, the best there has ever been in F1.

Also Johnny Herbert was ridiculously quick but a horrific F3 crash damaged his feet to the extent he was never the same driver and lost that "special" talent he had.

The amateur approach of some teams in the 1980s comes across. Not the clincial surgical approach you see today. But the physical demands on the drivers and teams were greater back then. Its fascinating to listen to.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Welcome to F1. Things can change very quickly.

It is the football equivalent of having lots of injured players at the club or having key players come back from injuries at key time. Ups and downs.
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I mean, he would have a point if Mercedes had done all those things deliberately and managed to evade punishment. But they didn't.
 
dinostar77 said:
Also Johnny Herbert was ridiculously quick but a horrific F3 crash damaged his feet to the extent he was never the same driver and lost that "special" talent he had.
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Interesting, I didn't know this. I met Johnny Herbert when I was a kid at a Le Mans event. Really nice guy.
 
dinostar77 said:
Also Johnny Herbert was ridiculously quick but a horrific F3 crash damaged his feet to the extent he was never the same driver and lost that "special" talent he had.
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He podiumed at two of my favourite races ever - the 1996 Monaco Grand Prix where no-one seemingly wanted to finish the race, and his win at the 1999 European Grand Prix where Ferrari forgot how to change tyres and possibly cost Irvine the title.
 
Moiraine said:
I give up on Formula 1.

In 2 races Mercedes have;

Taken 6 cars out (3 of them their direct rivals)
Destroyed 2 Red bull engines
Taken Hamilton’s only rival out twice
Ensured red bull get engine penalties
Cost teams millions in damage

Mercedes walk away extending both of their championship leads. What the actual feck…….
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After Verstappen was hit at turn 1, I had psychologically prepared myself for a 26 point swing in Hamilton’s favour. The fact that the swing turned out to be only 16 points in the end is a win in my books.

Mercedes’ bizarre decision to stay out on inters when the track was bone-dry, combined with Hamilton’s mediocre racecraft against Alonso, has given Verstappen’s WDC chances a second lifeline.

I was also quite amazed that Max managed to score a few points today with such a damaged car.
 
Honda may have lost a few horses.

https://t.co/ICaUQq8CnW

‘Mercedes think FIA directive has slowed down Honda’

....They say “there are reports from the Mercedes corner that Honda have been slowed down by a directive from the FIA. Allegedly, there have been disagreements for four months about how the Japanese [manufacturer] operate their energy management”....

Honda deny this

https://racingnews365.com/honda-deny-theory-that-a-technical-directive-has-curtailed-their-power

However it could be like Ferrari of 2019 when they were doing something funky with their Oil/Fuel and we will never know.

One way to found out for sure is how fast the RB is will be the long straight at Spa.
 
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