F1 2021 Season

This thread is great :lol:

Well done @Infordin you’ve made me laugh tonight.

Anyone who can put verstappen in the same sentence as Senna and Schumacher with a straight face and call him the fastest driver ever is great in my opinion
 
Infordin said:
Everyone had their own criteria on what makes an F1 driver the GOAT.

For me, it is the ability to defy the odds.

I think that Senna in 1993 and Schumacher in 1996-1998 we’re doing truly special things against hugely superior Newey cars. I didn’t see the same magic from Hamilton from 2009-2013.
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Well he's doing alright now against a clearly superior Red Bull! ;)
 
Infordin said:
I don’t expect anyone to accept Max as a great.

But if you think that the opinion is STUPID, then I can name plenty of people who think otherwise.

But again, you are free to make up your own mind on Max.
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Except all those quotes were that he was fast. Not great. Being fast and being great are two distinctly different things.
 
@The Hilton i admire you persistence in arguing with a brick wall. Or do I? :lol: Anyway I was lured back in and now luring myself back out until something more interesting is being discussed in here rather than monotonous nonsensical bullshit!
 
Zlatan 7 said:
This thread is great :lol:

Well done @Infordin you’ve made me laugh tonight.

Anyone who can put verstappen in the same sentence as Senna and Schumacher with a straight face and call him the fastest driver ever is great in my opinion
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Dubious definition of great ... bit like certain other posters definitions of that word! :lol:
 
Infordin said:
I don’t hate Lewis. I just find him an overrated driver; but just because I find him overrated doesn’t mean that I hate or even dislike him.

Hamilton benefited massively from being in the right place at the right time in the least competitive era of Formula 1 history.

Senna, Schumacher and Verstappen are better in my view.
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Lewis has broken nearly every record Senna and Schumacher set, 7 WC, yet you think he is over rated, is just mental, but you are entitled to that opinion
Putting Max a ZERO WC in the same bracket at Senna and Schumacher is taking being a fanboy to a whole new level.
I am not saying he will not get there, but FFS he has got to be winning WC's, multiple WCs and setting records.
I find you dismissing all the Lewis has done shocking at best.
For the record I put Max ahead of Lewis this year, his car is faster, handles better, using tyres better, the rule changes this season have helped out Red Bull, RB use a high rake, Mercedes a low rake and that is hurting Mercedes.
They cant change is, so have to work with what they have.
Will Max win the WC this season, yes I think he will, will he in 2022 with new cars ,new regulations that I dont know.
2022 is going to be an exciting season, even more than this one I think.
 
rpitroda said:
@The Hilton i admire you persistence in arguing with a brick wall. Or do I? :lol: Anyway I was lured back in and now luring myself back out until something more interesting is being discussed in here rather than monotonous nonsensical bullshit!
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Yeah I got sucked in, was silly really when you consider how ridiculous he's being. Max up there with Senna and Schumacher, incredible.

Bring on 2022 and a hopefully really unpredictable season.
 
It's a shame we had the rear downforce cuts this season.

A Hamilton in a prime Merc against Max in a prime Red Bull could have been great to watch.

Now we've had a 50/50 swing with Max in the faster car and Lewis playing catch up. I think they genuinely could have had even cars this year otherwise.
 
Infordin said:
Everyone had their own criteria on what makes an F1 driver the GOAT.

For me, it is the ability to defy the odds.

I think that Senna in 1993 and Schumacher in 1996-1998 we’re doing truly special things against hugely superior Newey cars. I didn’t see the same magic from Hamilton from 2009-2013.
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It wasn't long ago people were calling Alonso and Vettel potential greats. Hamilton took on both, once in the same car (Alonso) and later he drove an inferior car for a while (vs. Vettel in the Ferrari). In the 1996-98 timeline I don't recall drivers considered as potential greats. He's also fought off superior team mates IMHO.
 
Infordin said:
Everyone had their own criteria on what makes an F1 driver the GOAT.

For me, it is the ability to defy the odds.

I think that Senna in 1993 and Schumacher in 1996-1998 we’re doing truly special things against hugely superior Newey cars. I didn’t see the same magic from Hamilton from 2009-2013.
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Verstappen has not defied the odds since 2015. Now he has the faster car he is ahead in the championship. Again, barely defying the odds. Yet you claim he is better than a 7 time World Champion who has defied the odds multiple times in his long career.

It is definitely laughable.
 
pauldyson1uk said:
Lewis has broken nearly every record Senna and Schumacher set, 7 WC, yet you think he is over rated, is just mental, but you are entitled to that opinion
Putting Max a ZERO WC in the same bracket at Senna and Schumacher is taking being a fanboy to a whole new level.
I am not saying he will not get there, but FFS he has got to be winning WC's, multiple WCs and setting records.
I find you dismissing all the Lewis has done shocking at best.
For the record I put Max ahead of Lewis this year, his car is faster, handles better, using tyres better, the rule changes this season have helped out Red Bull, RB use a high rake, Mercedes a low rake and that is hurting Mercedes.
They cant change is, so have to work with what they have.
Will Max win the WC this season, yes I think he will, will he in 2022 with new cars ,new regulations that I dont know.
2022 is going to be an exciting season, even more than this one I think.
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Agreed. I am looking forward to it. Will we get a Brawn situation? A curve ball team with some edge under the new rules. Exciting.
 
RB have lodged a formal request to FIA to re review the collision between max and lewis. Not sure what they are expecting but theres a meeting on Thursday at 4pm with reps from RB and Merc present.

Any sort of change of punishment will weaken the power of the stewards and open pandora's box. The stewarts made the call during the GP, end of.

I have no issue with max, i just hate this crap from RB and horner. It was a racing incident as many qualified F1 drivers current and former have said, end of.

Edit: didnt realise this had already been posted as there have been pages of endless children on here making verstappen out to be the greatest driver in f1 history. Put him in this years Williams or Haas and he'd be winning races apparently.

Anyone with half a brain cell knows, F1 has been and will always be about being in the right car at the right time. Ask Alonso, who make a career out of getting that wrong at almost every occasion. A potential 4/5 x WDC who only has 2 to his name.
 
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pauldyson1uk said:
Lets get off the Lewis v Max, but this one is is not much less controversial.


Saudi Arabia will host its very first Grand Prix in December of this year, but F1 could return to Jeddah just months later if the venue takes over Melbourne's tentative early 2022 slot.
This year's Australian Grand Prix, which was canceled in 2020 following the onslaught of the Covid pandemic, was pushed back to late November and then canceled again as the country projected that its border controls and travel restrictions would still be in force come next fall.

Melbourne's organisers are hopeful of finally returning their event to the calendar in 2022, but shifting the race towards the end of the season would likely eliminate the risk of disruption as the coronavirus crisis will have hopefully subsided by then.

With F1's 2022 season expected to start once again in Bahrain, it would make logistical sense to slot in Jeddah after Sakhir, with F1 therefore kicking off its campaign with two rounds of racing in the Middle East.

The plan is being promoted by the chairman of the Saudi Automobile and Motorcycle Federation, Prince Khalid Bin Sultan Al Faisal.

"For us as a promoter we prefer not to be the last races," he said, quoted by Motorsport.com.

"Teams can do good really in the first races and then the other races have become not so interesting, as a promoter.

"We wanted to have race in the beginning [of the season] but in the time we had to do the work for the track and prepare the track, we couldn't have a race in 2021 at the beginning of the year.

"Our decision was to have a race at the end of 2021, or [wait to] have an early race in 2022. Our decision was we wanted the race in 2021.

"So we are now discussing with F1 about what is best for us to have our race in 2022, and hopefully we can get to an agreement."


Finally, Saudi Arabia has expressed an interest in hosting F1's third Sprint Qualifying trial. F1 rolled out the new format at Silverstone and the concept will be tested a second time at Monza.

"I was there in Silverstone last weekend and I really enjoyed it as a spectator and as a promoter," said Prince Khalid.

"I think it's good. You have more races to see, more action on Saturday. We would love to be one of the countries that had the sprint race.

"The decision now is F1's and we will see. Is it going to be another country, with three countries in Europe, or will the Middle East will be one of them? I would love to see it in Saudi."
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Lets see how the racing is first before attempting the sprint qualifying there. Also im all for change in the calender schedule of races.

Monaco being permanently dumped as a F1 GP is unfortunately a dream that will never come to fruition.
 
The Hilton said:
Yeah I got sucked in, was silly really when you consider how ridiculous he's being. Max up there with Senna and Schumacher, incredible.

Bring on 2022 and a hopefully really unpredictable season.
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My personal view is it’s completely OK to like Max, heck even think he’s better than Hamilton now, if you want. I don’t agree with it at all, but each to their own.

The thing that bothers me, and it’s only him in this thread generally who is impossible for it, is warping the truth to justify that opinion. It’s one thing having the opinion rightly or wrongly, it’s another making up false facts and basing it on absurdity.

My view is there is no question Max is talented. And incredibly vast. But he has a lot to learn about racemenship - Max had the faster car, he should have been less rash rightly or wrongly and accepted the loss in that battle knowing he had the advantage in the war - be it later in the race or later in the season with the faster car. He will learn that with experience.

On the point about Max being in the same breath as Senna or Schumi, it’s just inexplicable. If someone said he one day COULD be, I can easily accept that. He’s talented and fast enough to one day be in GOAT contention. But having the talent for that discussion isn’t enough. He has a whole career to go first where he needs to prove it’s worth wins and titles. Just claiming he’s a GOAT on what he COULD achieve rather than what he DOES achieve is just nonsensical.

It’s that absurdity which puts me off debating with him. Because In the last god knows how many pages, you won’t find one reply from him where he will claim actually his point is proven wrong.
 
rpitroda said:
My personal view is it’s completely OK to like Max, heck even think he’s better than Hamilton now, if you want. I don’t agree with it at all, but each to their own.

The thing that bothers me, and it’s only him in this thread generally who is impossible for it, is warping the truth to justify that opinion. It’s one thing having the opinion rightly or wrongly, it’s another making up false facts and basing it on absurdity.

My view is there is no question Max is talented. And incredibly vast. But he has a lot to learn about racemenship - Max had the faster car, he should have been less rash rightly or wrongly and accepted the loss in that battle knowing he had the advantage in the war - be it later in the race or later in the season with the faster car. He will learn that with experience.

On the point about Max being in the same breath as Senna or Schumi, it’s just inexplicable. If someone said he one day COULD be, I can easily accept that. He’s talented and fast enough to one day be in GOAT contention. But having the talent for that discussion isn’t enough. He has a whole career to go first where he needs to prove it’s worth wins and titles. Just claiming he’s a GOAT on what he COULD achieve rather than what he DOES achieve is just nonsensical.

It’s that absurdity which puts me off debating with him. Because In the last god knows how many pages, you won’t find one reply from him where he will claim actually his point is proven wrong.
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If we said he has the potential then no one would question that. There are more aspects to just being the fastest, you have to be lucky to an extent to be in the right team, to get some breaks but I'd say the biggest difference so far between the Senna, Schumacher and Hamilton drivers and I'd put Prost in there too although he never got the success is the team playing aspect and expertise that comes not just from racing but by working with the engineers and mechanics and not being the big I am too much to not be testing at whatever ungodly place and time given you. So far I don't see all of that in evidence with Verstappen but that's not to say we won't, he has time and recognition.
 
rpitroda said:
It’s that absurdity which puts me off debating with him. Because In the last god knows how many pages, you won’t find one reply from him where he will claim actually his point is proven wrong.
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Not only that, he's continously contradicting himself and backtracking when called out. He's effectively a religious zealot - being rational or accurate doesn't matter.

The worst thing is, there are a couple of others in the thread who are just as blinded by their hated of Hamilton that they come out with similar rubbish.
 
Frosty said:
Formula 1 world champion Lewis Hamilton has launched a charitable foundation and pledged £20m to "support, champion and empower young people from under-represented groups in the UK".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57986018

Top bloke.
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Yeah this was part of the controversy this morning. Lewis and Merc both pushed this and 3 hours later RB did it's thing. Not the best look.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Red Bull are making themselves look very silly right now. All this distraction is going to make it worse for Verstappen IMO, they could end up bottling this title.
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Horner is a shout for the sixth spice girl, salty spice.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Verstappen has not defied the odds since 2015. Now he has the faster car he is ahead in the championship. Again, barely defying the odds. Yet you claim he is better than a 7 time World Champion who has defied the odds multiple times in his long career.

It is definitely laughable.
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Verstappen finished 3rd in the championship in 2019 with a car that was inferior to Ferrari. That’s defying the odds a lot more than anything Hamilton did from 2009-2013.

The reason why I emphasize 2009-2013 is because that’s the only period in Hamilton’s career where he had a seriously inferior car (like Verstappen 2016-2020).

Verstappen 2019 > anything Hamilton has done in a full season with a clearly inferior car
 
Infordin said:
Verstappen finished 3rd in the championship in 2019 with a car that was inferior to Ferrari. That’s defying the odds a lot more than anything Hamilton did from 2009-2013.

The reason why I emphasize 2009-2013 is because that’s the only period in Hamilton’s career where he had a seriously inferior car (like Verstappen 2016-2020).

Verstappen 2019 > anything Hamilton has done in a full season with a clearly inferior car
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That 2009 McLaren might one of F1 worst cars. Fact Lewis got it to 5th in the standings was a miracle he put in countless amazing drives just to get that thing in to the points consistently.
 
Rooney1987 said:
Yeah this was part of the controversy this morning. Lewis and Merc both pushed this and 3 hours later RB did it's thing. Not the best look.
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Red Bull filed their protest last week, it went official yesterday, so nothing to see here.
 
Rooney1987 said:
That 2009 McLaren might one of F1 worst cars. Fact Lewis got it to 5th in the standings was a miracle he put in countless amazing drives just to get that thing in to the points consistently.
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You mean the same car that Kovalainen scored put on the front row in Valencia?

T’was a good car after the mid-season upgrade.
 
Infordin said:
You mean the same car that Kovalainen scored put on the front row in Valencia?

T’was a good car after the mid-season upgrade.
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The same Kovalainen who didn't get a single podium in the same car, even in the second half of the season. The upgrades made Mclaren compete to a certain level, it was still inferior to RB and Brawn. First half was all time McLaren bad. Brawn and RB still 14 wins over all races. Fact Lewis got 5th when his team mate was nowhere to be seen, a couple of poles and wins against 2 dominant cars in easily comparable to Max in 2019.
 
Rooney1987 said:
The same Kovalainen who didn't get a single podium in the same car, even in the second half of the season. The upgrades made Mclaren compete to a certain level, it was still inferior to RB and Brawn. First half was all time McLaren bad. Brawn and RB still 14 wins over all races. Fact Lewis got 5th when his team mate was nowhere to be seen, a couple of poles and wins against 2 dominant cars in easily comparable to Max in 2019.
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Albon and Gasly didn’t get a single podium in 2019 either while Verstappen won 3 races and 9 podiums. Verstappen ended the season 3rd, ahead of two drivers (Leclerc and Vettel) who had a stronger car overall.

Anyway, neither of those seasons even comes close to Senna 1993 or Schumacher 1997.
 
Infordin said:
Albon and Gasly didn’t get a single podium in 2019 either while Verstappen won 3 races and 9 podiums. Verstappen ended the season 3rd, ahead of two drivers (Leclerc and Vettel) who had a stronger car overall.

Anyway, neither of those seasons even comes close to Senna 1993 or Schumacher 1997.
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That was more due to his team mates being completely shite and the car setup to suit Verstappen perfectly.

Perez has shown that with more experience it's possible to do a better job, so i'd say that weights more against your point.
 
This thread has managed to get really tedious. We really need the next race to arrive quickly so we can move on. Though I would really laugh if they both crashed out at the next race. Horner really would throw all the toys from his pram.
 
Dargonk said:
This thread has managed to get really tedious. We really need the next race to arrive quickly so we can move on. Though I would really laugh if they both crashed out at the next race. Horner really would throw all the toys from his pram.
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What makes you think it will change, we have one poster on here who dismisses anything one driver does and thinks another driver is god and can do no wrong,
Dismisses the 7 times WC as overrated, puts Max in the same class as Senna and Sch :lol:
 
pauldyson1uk said:
What makes you think it will change, we have one poster on here who dismisses anything one driver does and thinks another driver is god and can do no wrong,
Dismisses the 7 times WC as overrated, puts Max in the same class as Senna and Sch :lol:
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True. Not much hope then :lol:
 
Dargonk said:
This thread has managed to get really tedious. We really need the next race to arrive quickly so we can move on. Though I would really laugh if they both crashed out at the next race. Horner really would throw all the toys from his pram.
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As a McLaren fan, this would suit me perfectly :lol:
 
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