Weren't you the poster dismissing everyone's references to other drivers' opinions as useless arguments from authority?
F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran discuss a horrific month of December and a depressing FOUR defeats in a row - the latest coming against Wolves and Newcastle.
They discuss how much blame is on Ruben Amorim and rank our squad against other Premier League teams.
Do we have any chance of avoiding defeat at Anfield?
Or Mercedes was just faster.
I mean, I can just as easily dismiss all the races where Red Bull was faster as “down to how they handle the tyres”
Mercedes was much faster than Red Bull in Spain even before they deviated strategies. Hamilton was easily driving in Verstappen’s dirty air for many laps without losing performance.
I don’t expect anyone to accept Max as a great.
But if you think that the opinion is STUPID, then I can name plenty of people who think otherwise.
But again, you are free to make up your own mind on Max.
He’s a top 5 driver of all time?
Just because I think Senna and Schumacher were better doesn’t mean that I don’t rate Hamilton.
Not entirely accurate.
Max has Senna/Schumacher level talent. I never called him as great as Senna and Schumacher yet.
You have to admit though that it's quite a stretch to list a young driver at the start of his career who hasn't even won one championship yet next to all-time greats without a hint of hesitation. It looks like a joke more than anything else.
Actually, you said this:
Not a hint there that you're referring to raw talent exclusively, and the preceding bit about Hamilton's career as a whole does suggests you're speaking of something bigger than that.
Much faster, but driving in dirty air. Therefore far enough behind to not have been faster when going behind.
You're like a walking contradiction machine, anything to big up your boy Max.
Congrats dude, you've achieved the impossible task of making Christian Horner seem level headed and likeable in comparison.
And back in 2019, that was probably true (about Hamilton being more complete).
The thing is that since then Verstappen has added consistency to his game.
If you are constantly driving within someone’s DRS zone around a circuit like Catalunya while simultaneously making your tyres last longer than the driver ahead, you are significantly faster than them. This is a fairly simple concept.
Senna and Schumacher are both better and greater than Hamilton.
Verstappen is better than Hamilton but not greater yet.
Understand?
OK but he didn't say "fastest driver ever" as you claimed.
You clearly want to believe he is too, but you don't have a way to back it up without lying about car performance.
Still, he's gonna win the title this year, another 5 or so and he'll be able to stake a realistic claim to being better than Hamilton. And then you won't have to make stuff up to back your belief in him
.Not at all, if you have a faster car with dead tyres then a slower car with fresh tyres is gonna catch it.
How are you measuring "greater"? Achievements?
Everyone had their own criteria on what makes an F1 driver the GOAT.
For me, it is the ability to defy the odds.
I think that Senna in 1993 and Schumacher in 1996-1998 we’re doing truly special things against hugely superior Newey cars. I didn’t see the same magic from Hamilton from 2009-2013.
If you have a faster car, then a slower car shouldn’t be in your DRS on lap 40 while running the same strategy as you.
This thread is great
Well done @Infordin you’ve made me laugh tonight.
Anyone who can put verstappen in the same sentence as Senna and Schumacher with a straight face and call him the fastest driver ever is great in my opinion
Well done @Infordin you’ve made me laugh tonight.
Anyone who can put verstappen in the same sentence as Senna and Schumacher with a straight face and call him the fastest driver ever is great in my opinion
If you've got no tyres then it doesn't matter how fast you are.
Except all those quotes were that he was fast. Not great. Being fast and being great are two distinctly different things.
@The Hilton i admire you persistence in arguing with a brick wall. Or do I? Anyway I was lured back in and now luring myself back out until something more interesting is being discussed in here rather than monotonous nonsensical bullshit!
Anyway I was lured back in and now luring myself back out until something more interesting is being discussed in here rather than monotonous nonsensical bullshit!This thread is great
Well done @Infordin you’ve made me laugh tonight.
Anyone who can put verstappen in the same sentence as Senna and Schumacher with a straight face and call him the fastest driver ever is great in my opinion
Dubious definition of great ... bit like certain other posters definitions of that word!
Lewis has broken nearly every record Senna and Schumacher set, 7 WC, yet you think he is over rated, is just mental, but you are entitled to that opinion
Putting Max a ZERO WC in the same bracket at Senna and Schumacher is taking being a fanboy to a whole new level.
I am not saying he will not get there, but FFS he has got to be winning WC's, multiple WCs and setting records.
I find you dismissing all the Lewis has done shocking at best.
For the record I put Max ahead of Lewis this year, his car is faster, handles better, using tyres better, the rule changes this season have helped out Red Bull, RB use a high rake, Mercedes a low rake and that is hurting Mercedes.
They cant change is, so have to work with what they have.
Will Max win the WC this season, yes I think he will, will he in 2022 with new cars ,new regulations that I dont know.
2022 is going to be an exciting season, even more than this one I think.
@The Hilton i admire you persistence in arguing with a brick wall. Or do I?
Yeah I got sucked in, was silly really when you consider how ridiculous he's being. Max up there with Senna and Schumacher, incredible.
Bring on 2022 and a hopefully really unpredictable season.
It's a shame we had the rear downforce cuts this season.
A Hamilton in a prime Merc against Max in a prime Red Bull could have been great to watch.
Now we've had a 50/50 swing with Max in the faster car and Lewis playing catch up. I think they genuinely could have had even cars this year otherwise.
A Hamilton in a prime Merc against Max in a prime Red Bull could have been great to watch.
Now we've had a 50/50 swing with Max in the faster car and Lewis playing catch up. I think they genuinely could have had even cars this year otherwise.
It wasn't long ago people were calling Alonso and Vettel potential greats. Hamilton took on both, once in the same car (Alonso) and later he drove an inferior car for a while (vs. Vettel in the Ferrari). In the 1996-98 timeline I don't recall drivers considered as potential greats. He's also fought off superior team mates IMHO.
Ravel Morrison had the potential/talent of Ronaldo or Giggs.
Either way, seems like you are back tracking alot in these recent posts.
Verstappen has not defied the odds since 2015. Now he has the faster car he is ahead in the championship. Again, barely defying the odds. Yet you claim he is better than a 7 time World Champion who has defied the odds multiple times in his long career.
It is definitely laughable.
Agreed. I am looking forward to it. Will we get a Brawn situation? A curve ball team with some edge under the new rules. Exciting.
I think we might.
I also dont think Merc and RB will have it all their own way, I can see a few teams gaining and maybe even challenging.
RB have lodged a formal request to FIA to re review the collision between max and lewis. Not sure what they are expecting but theres a meeting on Thursday at 4pm with reps from RB and Merc present.
Any sort of change of punishment will weaken the power of the stewards and open pandora's box. The stewarts made the call during the GP, end of.
I have no issue with max, i just hate this crap from RB and horner. It was a racing incident as many qualified F1 drivers current and former have said, end of.
Edit: didnt realise this had already been posted as there have been pages of endless children on here making verstappen out to be the greatest driver in f1 history. Put him in this years Williams or Haas and he'd be winning races apparently.
Anyone with half a brain cell knows, F1 has been and will always be about being in the right car at the right time. Ask Alonso, who make a career out of getting that wrong at almost every occasion. A potential 4/5 x WDC who only has 2 to his name.
Any sort of change of punishment will weaken the power of the stewards and open pandora's box. The stewarts made the call during the GP, end of.
I have no issue with max, i just hate this crap from RB and horner. It was a racing incident as many qualified F1 drivers current and former have said, end of.
Edit: didnt realise this had already been posted as there have been pages of endless children on here making verstappen out to be the greatest driver in f1 history. Put him in this years Williams or Haas and he'd be winning races apparently.
Anyone with half a brain cell knows, F1 has been and will always be about being in the right car at the right time. Ask Alonso, who make a career out of getting that wrong at almost every occasion. A potential 4/5 x WDC who only has 2 to his name.
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Lets see how the racing is first before attempting the sprint qualifying there. Also im all for change in the calender schedule of races.
Monaco being permanently dumped as a F1 GP is unfortunately a dream that will never come to fruition.
Formula 1 world champion Lewis Hamilton has launched a charitable foundation and pledged £20m to "support, champion and empower young people from under-represented groups in the UK".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57986018
Top bloke.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57986018
Top bloke.
My personal view is it’s completely OK to like Max, heck even think he’s better than Hamilton now, if you want. I don’t agree with it at all, but each to their own.
The thing that bothers me, and it’s only him in this thread generally who is impossible for it, is warping the truth to justify that opinion. It’s one thing having the opinion rightly or wrongly, it’s another making up false facts and basing it on absurdity.
My view is there is no question Max is talented. And incredibly vast. But he has a lot to learn about racemenship - Max had the faster car, he should have been less rash rightly or wrongly and accepted the loss in that battle knowing he had the advantage in the war - be it later in the race or later in the season with the faster car. He will learn that with experience.
On the point about Max being in the same breath as Senna or Schumi, it’s just inexplicable. If someone said he one day COULD be, I can easily accept that. He’s talented and fast enough to one day be in GOAT contention. But having the talent for that discussion isn’t enough. He has a whole career to go first where he needs to prove it’s worth wins and titles. Just claiming he’s a GOAT on what he COULD achieve rather than what he DOES achieve is just nonsensical.
It’s that absurdity which puts me off debating with him. Because In the last god knows how many pages, you won’t find one reply from him where he will claim actually his point is proven wrong.
Plagiarist.
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If we said he has the potential then no one would question that. There are more aspects to just being the fastest, you have to be lucky to an extent to be in the right team, to get some breaks but I'd say the biggest difference so far between the Senna, Schumacher and Hamilton drivers and I'd put Prost in there too although he never got the success is the team playing aspect and expertise that comes not just from racing but by working with the engineers and mechanics and not being the big I am too much to not be testing at whatever ungodly place and time given you. So far I don't see all of that in evidence with Verstappen but that's not to say we won't, he has time and recognition.
It's not mine, just seen it from other people for a while now. I'm sure others here have too.