It's not about hating. When you can see that you'll be making progress.You can laugh at a 23 year old for not having a world title yet when he’s never had an opportunity until this season, but don’t worry, in a decade from now the Verstappen haters will look very stupid.
F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
He won’t look out of place when he’s 36.
Jenson Button called him the fastest driver ever back in 2019:
https://www.planetf1.com/news/verstappen-is-the-fastest-driver-ever-in-f1/
Fernando Alonso called him the best driver on the grid on numerous occasions:
https://www.planetf1.com/news/alonso-verstappen-is-the-best-driver-in-f1/
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/8404...-the-moment-for-me-he-is-the-best-driver.html
You can laugh at a 23 year old for not having a world title yet when he’s never had an opportunity until this season, but don’t worry, in a decade from now the Verstappen haters will look very stupid.
I think he has a chance to become an all-time great and is a huge talent. I don't think anyone's denying that and no-ones "hating" Verstappen at all?
It's ludicrous to say he's a great now though as it would have been when Prost, Senna, Hamllton, Lauda were young and hadn't rounded out their talent and proved it year after year.
It'll be interesting to see how fast Mercedes are during the weekend. At Silverstone it felt like they had the faster car all the way through qualifying really. Obviously with how the race went it's hard to tell for sure but it could be the updates they introduced nudged them ahead of Red Bull once again.
Yeah, I agree. There was a definite improvement from Mercedes in the last race after looking like they had dropped a decent amount behind for 3 races. It'll be interesting how that transpires on different tracks now.
With a bit of luck, it'll be ultra close and we'll have some great racing for the next few weeks.
I'll just leave this here
"You shouldn't really be able to finish ahead of him if you took him out of the race." - Hamilton 2018
That’s an opinion from 3 years ago and as much I don’t think he’s wrong there is nothing in the rule book that states it. Hamilton is hardly going to back off because Max retired is he? And that incident was a clear driver error.
Horner’s interview is from an almost carbon copy incident last season but Horner always has bent the narrative to suit his team.
Aha. So you have just stated that it is down to what people think.
You are speaking on behalf of 'the fans' then. All of them?
This is complete nonsense.
Mercedes haven't been quicker anywhere, Red Bull have clearly the better package.
You're getting laughed at because you're basing your argument on something objectively false. They simply aren't in the same car, the Red Bull is faster, and you know it!
By all means be a fan of Max, by all means think he's a better driver (if a little silly given their respective level of success), but pretending the cars are equal to justify it? Well that mainly shows that you don't actually believe what you're saying, as if you did you wouldn't need to downplay the advantages of the Red Bull.
Is that your special coping technique?
Perhaps you should tell that to Perez, who has been outperformed by Bottas in every measurable category this season (points, race finishes, qualifying).
Of course all the wins and poles Mercedes have this season must be because of Hamilton’s special driving, his driving is so special that Bottas is way closer to him than Perez is to Verstappen.
Are you serious? You are arguing until you're blue in the face with everyone on here, most of which are "50-50, probably racing incident, maybe slightly more Lewis' fault if you had to chose", then you post your own stats that says the same thing,
You complain people don't "make coherent arguments" but you completely ignore any post that presents facts or opinions you can't refute then just re-state your arguments, most of which are factually wrong (e.g. if Max had stayed ahead he would have won because the RB is better, despite Max winning the sprint race, then in a more recent post your chalk Britain up as a track there the Merc was faster to backup another argument that Max must be better because the machinery is very equal).
Apart from the fact that Lance left zero space on the apex while Max left plenty, yeah sure.
Left plenty, sure.
Is that your special coping technique?
Perhaps you should tell that to Perez, who has been outperformed by Bottas in every measurable category this season (points, race finishes, qualifying).
Of course all the wins and poles Mercedes have this season must be because of Hamilton’s special driving, his driving is so special that Bottas is way closer to him than Perez is to Verstappen.
Dripping with irony, given you have to pretend the Red Bull is slower than it is. Besides, I'm a Lando fan.
If you could drop your childish hatred of Lewis for a second, you might be able to come to the actual reason it's close - a couple of Max DNFs, one great strategy call, and Perez having horrible luck.
Genuinely dude you're embarrassing yourself in this thread with your refusal to accept reality about the cars. If you said "the Red Bull is faster and Max is showing his class at the head of the field" then it would show some faith in his abilities.
Pretending its even just shows you don't have an argument to back up your "Max is the better driver" statement that's based in reality, hence having to make stuff up.
By the same logic, you can assume the Red Bull is quicker, since Verstappen has outperformed Hamilton this season. But since your frontloaded into you argument that Verstappen is the better driver, you're ignoring that.
You know, it wouldn't hurt to just say that both are good and there isn't enough evidence to suggest who's better at this particular point in time.
It looked mostly like they've sacrificed tyre maintenance for more one lap speed. The RB was still able to pull away, and realistically its still Max's title to lose, but at least they aren't miles behind like they were before Silverstone.
It clearly isn't a carbon copy but tbh I have no interest in debating this any further. Let's just await the FIA's verdict and move on. I'm sure they'll leave it as is.
The voice of reason. But I fear he won't listen.
Wait, aren’t you the same guy who said that Mercedes was not quicker than Red Bull in Spain and Portugal, right?
Perhaps you should look in the mirror first
The voice of reason. But I fear he won't listen.
Of course not, but you have to understand why.
He wants Max to be better, but doesn't actually believe it, otherwise he'd base the opinion on reality.
Still, not much point having a serious conversation who lists him among the all time greats Senna and Schumacher when he's won nothing so far.
Don’t listen to me. Listen to Jenson Button, who called him the fastest driver ever, or Fernando Alonso who called him better than Hamilton, Martin Brundle, who called him one of the greatest of all time.
I don’t expect you to accept it, but it’s certainly not an unpopular opinion.
And my belief that Max >>> Lewis is based on the fact that I rate Perez and Bottas on the same level.
Wait, aren’t you the same guy who said that Mercedes was not quicker than Red Bull in Spain and Portugal, right?
Perhaps you should look in the mirror first
Dude you put Max in your list of the 3 greatest drivers ever, alongside Senna and Schumacher. You're in no position to call others biased.
Besides, Merc winning Portugal was more about tyre management than pace, and Spain was thanks to a great tactical call (and featured an uncharacteristically slow pit stop for Max).
As I said in another post, you want Max to be the better driver, hence pretending the cars are even. If you actually believed it, you wouldn't need to.
You needn't worry too much, Max is nailed on to win the championship this year, so you'll have something grounded in reality to shout about.
Yet doesn't rate Hamilton...
Weren't you the poster dismissing everyone's references to other drivers' opinions as useless arguments from authority?
Or Mercedes was just faster.
I mean, I can just as easily dismiss all the races where Red Bull was faster as “down to how they handle the tyres”
Mercedes was much faster than Red Bull in Spain even before they deviated strategies. Hamilton was easily driving in Verstappen’s dirty air for many laps without losing performance.
I don’t expect anyone to accept Max as a great.
But if you think that the opinion is STUPID, then I can name plenty of people who think otherwise.
But again, you are free to make up your own mind on Max.
He’s a top 5 driver of all time?
Just because I think Senna and Schumacher were better doesn’t mean that I don’t rate Hamilton.
Not entirely accurate.
Max has Senna/Schumacher level talent. I never called him as great as Senna and Schumacher yet.
You have to admit though that it's quite a stretch to list a young driver at the start of his career who hasn't even won one championship yet next to all-time greats without a hint of hesitation. It looks like a joke more than anything else.
Actually, you said this:
Not a hint there that you're referring to raw talent exclusively, and the preceding bit about Hamilton's career as a whole does suggests you're speaking of something bigger than that.
Much faster, but driving in dirty air. Therefore far enough behind to not have been faster when going behind.
You're like a walking contradiction machine, anything to big up your boy Max.
Congrats dude, you've achieved the impossible task of making Christian Horner seem level headed and likeable in comparison.
And back in 2019, that was probably true (about Hamilton being more complete).
The thing is that since then Verstappen has added consistency to his game.
If you are constantly driving within someone’s DRS zone around a circuit like Catalunya while simultaneously making your tyres last longer than the driver ahead, you are significantly faster than them. This is a fairly simple concept.
Senna and Schumacher are both better and greater than Hamilton.
Verstappen is better than Hamilton but not greater yet.
Understand?
OK but he didn't say "fastest driver ever" as you claimed.
You clearly want to believe he is too, but you don't have a way to back it up without lying about car performance.
Still, he's gonna win the title this year, another 5 or so and he'll be able to stake a realistic claim to being better than Hamilton. And then you won't have to make stuff up to back your belief in him
.Not at all, if you have a faster car with dead tyres then a slower car with fresh tyres is gonna catch it.
How are you measuring "greater"? Achievements?
Everyone had their own criteria on what makes an F1 driver the GOAT.
For me, it is the ability to defy the odds.
I think that Senna in 1993 and Schumacher in 1996-1998 we’re doing truly special things against hugely superior Newey cars. I didn’t see the same magic from Hamilton from 2009-2013.
If you have a faster car, then a slower car shouldn’t be in your DRS on lap 40 while running the same strategy as you.