European Super League

[::sonny::]

Noone stops the bankrupt clubs to create the Super League. Just do 3 man Super League, Premiere League and Bundesliga Team won't join

Spurs west ham would join in a heartbeat

 

[sglowrider]

If you want to be a devil's advocate there is some validity to the ESL proposal. Let the clubs decide their own fate rather than some corrupt unaccountable organisations like FIFA or UEFA decide and control.

The current CL and Europa formats have been expanded pure for financial reasons -- no different to what RM, Barca or Juve want, just that they have a different approach. If you were to start this league yourself, you would initially limit the competition (leaving the domestic competitions untouched.) But later as they gain traction, expand or invite more clubs to the ESL.
How is this any different to what UEFA has been doing the past few decades when it used to be Champion of the respective leagues invited only? And now we have that politically astute formation of the Europa Conference League, some 20+ years later. UEFA is just spinning a larger web to appease the smaller nations/clubs (not unlike FIFA throwing millions to the likes of Granada or St Kitts to get their votes.)

The fact that RM, Barca is desperate for another payday is another issue. But there is some validity to the individual clubs wanting to 'take back control' from some centralised superstructures.

 

[Ole's screen]

If you want to be a devil's advocate there is some validity to the ESL proposal. Let the clubs decide their own fate rather than some corrupt unaccountable organisations like FIFA or UEFA decide and control.

The current CL and Europa formats have been expanded pure for financial reasons -- no different to what RM, Barca or Juve want, just that they have a different approach. If you were to start this league yourself, you would initially limit the competition (leaving the domestic competitions untouched.) But later as they gain traction, expand or invite more clubs to the ESL.
How is this any different to what UEFA has been doing the past few decades when it used to be Champion of the respective leagues invited only? And now we have that politically astute formation of the Europa Conference League, some 20+ years later. UEFA is just spinning a larger web to appease the smaller nations/clubs (not unlike FIFA throwing millions to the likes of Granada or St Kitts to get their votes.)

The fact that RM, Barca is desperate for another payday is another issue. But there is some validity to the individual clubs wanting to 'take back control' from some centralised superstructures.

The issue with the ESL was always the permanent membership. If the proposal was like the PL where every participating club gets a vote and historically participating members get some solidarity payments if they don't qualify once in a while, it wouldn't gotten anywhere near the backlash it did.

 

[sglowrider]

The issue with the ESL was always the permanent membership. If the proposal was like the PL where every participating club gets a vote and historically participating members get some solidarity payments if they don't qualify once in a while, it wouldn't gotten anywhere near the backlash it did.

That would be a tactical issue. Imagine you were to start up an elite league say like the Champion's League when it first started decades ago -- when only and literally only league champions were invited? You would need to build the prestige of any competition by making it exclusive at the start. That would just whet the appetite for tier 2 clubs to enter -- not to say that Spurs or Arsenal were ever Tier 1 European clubs.

The ESP founders all know that to make even more money, they need to expand the competition. But you don't start by having 32 teams at the start, not that they could sign up that many clubs at the initial stage as many would take a 'wait & see' approach -- just like United was the European league pathfinder for British clubs.

UEFA has been expanding the competitions both for political expediency and financial incentives for decades. As a result, players are being overplayed and competitions are no longer very elite esp with this new abomination called the Europa Championship League.

The choice here will be, do we want the European competitions controlled or managed by faceless UEFA officials or the chairman of the clubs.

 

[Ole's screen]

That would be a tactical issue. Imagine you were to start up an elite league say like the Champion's League when it first started decades ago -- when only and literally only league champions were invited? You would need to build the prestige of any competition by making it exclusive at the start. That would just whet the appetite for tier 2 clubs to enter -- not to say that Spurs or Arsenal were ever Tier 1 European clubs.

The ESP founders all know that to make even more money, they need to expand the competition. But you don't start by having 32 teams at the start, not that they could sign up that many clubs at the initial stage as many would take a 'wait & see' approach -- just like United was the European league pathfinder for British clubs.

The choice here will be, do we want the European competitions controlled or managed by faceless UEFA officials or the chairman of the clubs.

Instead of choosing specific clubs they should have went with a qualifying criteria like "only league champions" or "top 4 from PL, top 3 from la liga, top 2 from Serie A, etc" then. By naming clubs in invite especially the likes of Arsenal and Tottenham they made a mockery of the competition.

 

[sglowrider]

Instead of choosing specific clubs they should have went with a qualifying criteria like "only league champions" or "top 4 from PL, top 3 from la liga, top 2 from Serie A, etc" then. By naming clubs in invite especially the likes of Arsenal and Tottenham they made a mockery of the competition.

I agree but the whole European competitions have been a shambles for decades. This ESL was just another attempt to take back some semble of control by the clubs or cynically, to extract more money from UEFA --- or better still some accountability and openness with the opaque UEFA organisation that makes/spends billions a year without being answerable to anyone.

 

[Ole's screen]

I agree but the whole European competitions have been a shambles for decades. This ESL was just another attempt to take back some semble of control by the clubs or cynically, to extract more money from UEFA --- or better still some accountability and openness with the opaque UEFA organisation that makes/spends billions a year without being answerable to anyone.

Then they should have had the balls to actually create a decent alternative. When the European cup started, nobody claimed it was going to be a closed competition. The closed competition aspect was in the very foundation of the ESL - one of the claimed "selling point" of the league. It was always planned to be an NFL style league where yes, they could invite more teams in the future - but they'd decide it, based on if they brought enough monetary value and fanbase to the league, not based on sporting merit.

So perhaps a challenge to UEFA is still required, and maybe it does come in the form of ESL but it would have to be very differently run and would have to be a direct alternate to UEFA's competition that would allow the best teams in Europe from the last year to compete - not a set number of established big clubs.

 

[sglowrider]

Then they should have had the balls to actually create a decent alternative. When the European cup started, nobody claimed it was going to be a closed competition. The closed competition aspect was in the very foundation of the ESL - one of the claimed "selling point" of the league. It was always planned to be an NFL style league where yes, they could invite more teams in the future - but they'd decide it, based on if they brought enough monetary value and fanbase to the league, not based on sporting merit.

So perhaps a challenge to UEFA is still required, and maybe it does come in the form of ESL but it would have to be very differently run and would have to be a direct alternate to UEFA's competition that would allow the best teams in Europe from the last year to compete - not a set number of established big clubs.

I don't disagree.

 

[Hulksmash]

La Liga president Javier Tebas gave Barcelona a choice: extend Leo Messi's contract and give up on the Super League, or lose Messi and carry on with the Super League. (Source: @marcelobechler)


It's seems like Barcelona and Madrid still won't give up and want this League to start next year at all cost

 

[Giggsyking]

La Liga president Javier Tebas gave Barcelona a choice: extend Leo Messi's contract and give up on the Super League, or lose Messi and carry on with the Super League. (Source: @marcelobechler)


It's seems like Barcelona and Madrid still won't give up and want this League to start next year at all cost

I think with what city is doing right now, taking the piss on every English football team, UEFA, etc, the super league is inevitable. I voted No in the poll, but I understand the non oil clubs why would they go ahead with it in the future if a better plan was to be presented (a better plan than the idiotic one that was presented few months ago). If the big football clubs cant stop City, PSG and Chelsea cooking the books, they have no other option but to start an own competition where they by themselves regulate the rules and ensure it is followed.

 

[Hulksmash]

I think with what city is doing right now, taking the piss on every English football team, UEFA, etc, the super league is inevitable. I voted No in the poll, but I understand the non oil clubs why would they go ahead with it in the future if a better plan was to be presented (a better plan than the idiotic one that was presented few months ago). If the big football clubs cant stop City, PSG and Chelsea cooking the books, they have no other option but to start an own competition where they by themselves regulate the rules and ensure it is followed.

Well United have spent equally to City and more then PSG in the last 10 years.

Premiere League won't allow another Super League fiasco again, unless they want their Stadium burned

 

[RexHamilton]

Well United have spent equally to City and more then PSG in the last 10 years.

Imagine still thinking this is the issue

 

[Pexbo]

Well United have spent equally to City and more then PSG in the last 10 years.

Premiere League won't allow another Super League fiasco again, unless they want their Stadium burned

City have spent £1.3bn in the last 10 years, United have spent £991m

How is a 34% difference spending “equally”?

 

[Giggsyking]

Well United have spent equally to City and more then PSG in the last 10 years.

Premiere League won't allow another Super League fiasco again, unless they want their Stadium burned

Do you think spending is only transfers? That would be naive. In the last 14 yeras Man city owners pumped about 2 billion from their own money directly or through masked false deals while united owners cost united in the last 14 years about 1 billion in dividends and debt amortization. The gap between united and Man city is 3 billion pounds in reality. United could not afford to renovate in the infrastructure like city does under the radar. United couldnt invest in the academy like city. It is not only transfers you know!

 

[golden_blunder]

To give an olive branch to Barca and Madrid now, after years of them bullying other clubs into selling their best players, using underhand tactics, it would be wrong. Let them reap what they have sewn

 

[Red&Black]

this summer was EXACTLY what Perez wanted/needed.

just cruise the twitter and you'll see how so, so many folks have suddenly changed their opinion on the Super League. Not just regular fans, but the media who swore against it.

It will happen, in some form or another. And soon.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

City have spent £1.3bn in the last 10 years, United have spent £991m

How is a 34% difference spending “equally”?

Aye, equal my arse.

And we only know half of it with the wages due to how those sneaky fecks have “financed it”. We do know PSG offered Neymar so much money that it rattled Barca to near bankruptcy with the Messi deal.

Only way for many clubs to compete long term is more revenue, much more. And some way to rein in the oil states.

 

[GifLord]

The hypocrisy of both clubs is astounding. Back in late 90s-early00s when you had clubs like Deportivo and Valencia who were both still competitive in La Liga and Europe, the big 2 negotiated the new La Liga TV deal which would make them earn over 100m €(50% of the pie) each season while the rest of the clubs would get scraps. Meaning from 2001/02 till 2015-16 each of the clubs pocketed in over 1.5billion€
Karma is a bitch

 

[Hulksmash]

Florentino Pérez, Real Madrid President, has just arrived in Barcelona.

Juventus CEO Andrea Agnelli has also arrived in the city. [cadena ser]

Finalizing the Super League for the next year. A big offer for the Premier League will be made

 

[Mb194dc]

Florentino Pérez, Real Madrid President, has just arrived in Barcelona.

Juventus CEO Andrea Agnelli has also arrived in the city. [cadena ser]

Finalizing the Super League for the next year. A big offer for the Premier League will be made

They're deluded...

It's so unpopular with English fans now it'll never fly.

They fecked it by dropping the idea like a bomb without discussing it first

Even if it's legal and they modify it with merit based qualification or other ways to just make it a better champions league.

 

[adexkola]

Only way for many clubs to compete long term is

Salary/transfer cap
Punitive taxes on excessive spending
Credits for youth players integrated into first team squads
Limiting squad sizes
Eliminate/severely restrict the loan system
Kick non-champions out of CL
Strict penalties for financial misrepresentation

Won't happen though. Long live our Emirate overlords then.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Salary/transfer cap
Punitive taxes on excessive spending
Credits for youth players integrated into first team squads
Limiting squad sizes
Eliminate/severely restrict the loan system
Kick non-champions out of CL
Strict penalties for financial misrepresentation

Won't happen though. Long live our Emirate overlords then.

Which is why the ESL was so attractive to many like Barca and Real. UEFA and the FA's have had 2 decades to rein in the oil peeps, and either give zero fecks or barely even try. They believed the ESL gave them opportunity to actual bring in some of the rules you mentioned to make the playing field more even.

Kicking non Champions out of CL sounds like a fecking terrible idea, which would just push the demand for the ESL.

 

[mancan92]

Florentino Pérez, Real Madrid President, has just arrived in Barcelona.

Juventus CEO Andrea Agnelli has also arrived in the city. [cadena ser]

Finalizing the Super League for the next year. A big offer for the Premier League will be made

They genuinely don't understand football culture here. We have no interest. If they push again people will destroy stadiums

 

[Berbasbullet]

The hypocrisy of both clubs is astounding. Back in late 90s-early00s when you had clubs like Deportivo and Valencia who were both still competitive in La Liga and Europe, the big 2 negotiated the new La Liga TV deal which would make them earn over 100m €(50% of the pie) each season while the rest of the clubs would get scraps. Meaning from 2001/02 till 2015-16 each of the clubs pocketed in over 1.5billion€
Karma is a bitch

@FCBarcelona

 

[GatoLoco]

They genuinely don't understand football culture here. We have no interest. If they push again people will destroy stadiums

Unless the alternative is a worse option.

 

[hellhunter]

Unless the alternative is a worse option.

Is it in England, though?

 

[Someone]

The Super League in its original format is dead, and I don't understand how could they convince the English clubs to participate after what happened.

Only way this would work is if it's something like a summer tournament, with far less games than originally planned, which won't bring anywhere near the money they initially expected, and will feel like glorified friendless.

 

[GatoLoco]

Is it in England, though?

Just imagining an hypothetical scenario where it would be preferable for English clubs to be in the Superleague rather than being out of it.

 

[mancan92]

Unless the alternative is a worse option.

Not for England. We are cool. It's the Spanish clubs who are struggling.

The super league without the Premier league teams or bundersliga teams is dead in the water anyway.

 

[cyberman]

Unless the alternative is a worse option.

There is no worse option for English sides. This league will become the super league in all but name within 3 years IMO.

 

[hellhunter]

Just imagining an hypothetical scenario where it would be preferable for English clubs to be in the Superleague rather than being out of it.

I see your point, but wouldn't it have been better for English teams already from an economic point of view?

 

[Hulksmash]

The current Rumours in Spain is that they want to give the first 8 Places in the Premier League a Spot in the league. This will ensure the Big 6 will almost guarantee be in it even if they have a bad Season and also give other Teams a place to join

 

[GatoLoco]

I see your point, but wouldn't it have been better for English teams already from an economic point of view?

English clubs chose the best option for their interests.

The scenario I talk about is one where it is so obvious being out of the Superleague is so detrimental to the clubs that even fans and politicians would acknowledge so very quickly.

 

[mancan92]

English clubs chose the best option for their interests.

The scenario I talk about is one where it is so obvious being out of the Superleague is so detrimental to the clubs that even fans and politicians would acknowledge so very quickly.

How would that situation come about without them in the first place?

That scenario doesn't exist

 

[King Kay]

The ESL is all about money. It will never take off without the top English clubs. Why do you think it totally fell to pieces as soon as the English teams withdrew? You don't get the Germans if the English are not on board, they are even more fan centric than the English clubs. The Italian giants haven't been relevant on the world stage for a long while now and Juve appear to be on a downward trajectory as well. Barca and Real are still big names but can they shoulder it all on their own? because no one cares about the French teams.
There is no ESL without the English clubs and that is why, if current rumours are to be believed, they are bending over backwards for the English clubs to get them to rejoin.
After the initial fiasco, the English clubs will have to totally break their relationship with the fans to rejoin and that my friend is not happening in England and Germany. Stadiums will burn.
There might be several changes made to the initial plans to make it more palatable but it m afraid the harm has already been done.

 

[adexkola]

Which is why the ESL was so attractive to many like Barca and Real. UEFA and the FA's have had 2 decades to rein in the oil peeps, and either give zero fecks or barely even try. They believed the ESL gave them opportunity to actual bring in some of the rules you mentioned to make the playing field more even.

Kicking non Champions out of CL sounds like a fecking terrible idea, which would just push the demand for the ESL.

UEFA and the FA's had decades to create a game that would have no opportunities for blue bloods or oil clubs to dominate. The ESL was an awful way of solving the problem, and actually proving the oil clubs right: all the top clubs only became concerned once their place of privilege was threatened.

It's a terrible idea for top clubs who use perennial top 4 positions and CL money to entrench their positions. For the game, it would be fantastic.

 

[Paxi]

Florentino Pérez, Real Madrid President, has just arrived in Barcelona.

Juventus CEO Andrea Agnelli has also arrived in the city. [cadena ser]

Finalizing the Super League for the next year. A big offer for the Premier League will be made

They can do whatever the feck they like.

 

[Beans]

Hate to say it, but I think the teams should have the right to form any league they want without penalty from any organizing body. I don't see how these restrictions hold up legally, Even if United signed an eternal contract to the league I don't think that should be possible, like you can't sign over your freedom to someone.

That being said, any "Super" League should be designed with fan input and meet their approval.

If some kind of SL replaced the Champion's League, and we stayed in the EPL, it could work. I would be willing to see United play a B side in the League Cup in order to send the A team to the SL for a game on the same weekend/midweek. And half the FA Cup games would only require the B team as well.

But there has to be relegation from the SL. You could be exempt if you win your league, since it would be the winners coming into the SL if they weren't in there already.

And Perez can't be President! Horrible idea.

 

[NinjaZombie]

The hypocrisy of both clubs is astounding. Back in late 90s-early00s when you had clubs like Deportivo and Valencia who were both still competitive in La Liga and Europe, the big 2 negotiated the new La Liga TV deal which would make them earn over 100m €(50% of the pie) each season while the rest of the clubs would get scraps. Meaning from 2001/02 till 2015-16 each of the clubs pocketed in over 1.5billion€
Karma is a bitch

This needs pointing out more. The Spanish big two ruined their own league with that deal. Good on the rest of La Liga for wanting a fairer deal.

 

[Krakenzero]

I'm surprised this is still "on". Well, desperate clubs are desperate, I guess. Maybe this would have had a chance of working if it wasn't such a blatant cash grab from the beggining.

Now RB&J (PS: I call dibs on the acronym) are facing a "Big fish in a small pond" scenario they also helped create, in which they are too big to share the profits of their original federations, not big enough to mobilize big teams from other federations, and too few to just compete on their own. They also just lost the CR7 vs. Messi marketing hook and, since their finances are a shambles, they're running against the clock.