European Super League

[JohnnyKills]

Bet all these owners are delighted that we're still playing behind closed doors.

Be interesting to see what happens now. All these owners have been totally unmasked (although ours didn't bother wearing a mask to begin with). Surely the protests start again now?

 

[Adisa]

 

[Rozay]

John Barnes nailed it here:

 

[sparx99]

4.2 + 4.1 + 4 + 3.2 + 2.8 + 2.3 = $20.5bn without all the other clubs but I don't seriously believe the government will do anything about it, never mind the cost, the legal arguments forever more, they won't want to get involved. Boris just thought it was a good horse to back to become more popular with the disgruntled fans.

I must have missed one out. Regardless, Boris is just using it to avoid talking about Greensill and now Dyson. My point regardless is £10-20bn of Govt loans or Gvot backed bank loans to buy 50% of clubs isn't wholly unrealistic. They have all tools available to them. I don't think we should be limited in our ambition. It may be the only way to get Utd off the Glazers otherwise we are looking at China or Saudi money and its not really any better.

 

[el3mel]

Agnelli is really a meme.

 

[sullydnl]

 

[Pogue Mahone]

John Barnes nailed it here:

These takes are so fecking boring. Everybody knows UEFA/FIFA are corrupt. Everybody knows that the oil money is ruining the game. This is not new information.

What happened in the last 48 hours was an attempt to permanently lock out dozens of football clubs from the most lucrative competition in the game. This attempt failed primarily because the fans let it be known that they wouldn’t get behind this. And this includes fans of clubs who stood to benefit from the initiative. Belittling that achievement by reminding everyone of stuff we all knew already is mean-spirited nonsense.

 

[Adisa]

Agnelli on why the Super League is still needed:

Football is no longer a game, it’s a business sector and what it needs most is stability.
"On the domestic side as well. In Europe, the most valuable match is no longer the Champions final but the English first division football playoffs to be admitted to the Premier League: 150 million. That isn’t stability.
"We need ironbound economic and financial regulations like those established in the Super League.
“The Super League will go forward regardless. If [UEFA] put forward proposals, we will take them under consideration. We’ve written to the presidents of FIFA and UEFA to begin a conversation”.

So, one of the key reasons is that Spanish and Italian clubs do not like the finances in English football.

No. They see it as evidence that the current CL and their domestic league's aren't worth the effort anymore. Unfortunately for them it's why the English teams couldn't risk upsetting their domestic stakeholders. I do agree with some of their arguments. UEFA need to sit down with these clubs and renegotiate the distribution.

 

[horsechoker]

Hated, adored, never ignored

 

[Dennis Viollet]

I am very disappointed with the behavior of all the clubs involved. Now it is easy to leave, but they had to think about it before accepting. Something never seen before was perpetrated, it was a real coup. They should all be punished, including us.
The sad thing is that nothing will change, there will always be stronger ones who will be the most bossy with the weakest. Dreams cannot be bought and all clubs, even the "smallest" and the "poorest" deserve to dream... big.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

You don't say.

 

[JSArsenal]

The 12/15 are so stupid it's unbelievable tbh. If they had sold this as a revamped CL and relegation was involved, then everyone would have lapped it up.

Okay, let's make it based on history, fine. Clubs that finish below 10th are relegated from it and replaced by clubs that finished 1st and 2nd in the big 5 leagues. If all of those clubs are already in it, go to the 3rd and 4th place club and base it on country coefficient or something. Or the 3rd and 4th placed clubs from around the European leagues take part in a Europa League style tournament/version of the ESL for entry into the ESL during the 3rd season. That way you have a shake up of the participants every 3 years. Imagine Leicester facing all of the top European sides rather than Copenhangen and Club Brugge.

How I see it:

First season of ESL alone
Second season of ESL combined with a UEFA Cup league with teams that finished 3rd/4th in their respective leagues. Relegation kicks in for the first time for the ESL. Perhaps the teams that finished in the bottom in the first season start off with a points deduction or can't choose the order of the away/home matches. Clubs are relegated from and promoted to the ESL
Third Season New look ESL with promoted teams.

And Bob's your uncle.

UEFA have diluted the competition too much and this lot had a chance to make it elite again but blew it by not wanting anyone else to participate or basing it on merit.

 

[BusbyMalone]

These takes are so fecking boring. Everybody knows UEFA/FIFA are corrupt. Everybody knows that the oil money is ruining the game. This is not new information.

What happened in the last 48 hours was an attempt to permanently lock out dozens of football clubs from the most lucrative competition in the game. This attempt failed primarily because the fans let it be known that they wouldn’t get behind this. And this includes fans of clubs who stood to benefit from the initiative. Belittling that achievement by reminding everyone of stuff we all knew already is mean-spirited nonsense.

It really is. Being against the formation of this so-called "Super League" is not an endorsement of UEFA/FIFA and the shit that they get up to. The people who come out with these takes believe themselves to be so fecking above it all, too.

 

[adexkola]

These takes are so fecking boring. Everybody knows UEFA/FIFA are corrupt. Everybody knows that the oil money is ruining the game. This is not new information.

What happened in the last 48 hours was an attempt to permanently lock out dozens of football clubs from the most lucrative competition in the game. This attempt failed primarily because the fans let it be known that they wouldn’t get behind this. And this includes fans of clubs who stood to benefit from the initiative. Belittling that achievement by reminding everyone of stuff we all knew already is mean-spirited nonsense.

This. This. And this.

Twitter is full of these takes. From people who think they're saying something profound.

 

[adexkola]

It really is. Being against the formation of this so-called "Super League" is not an endorsement of UEFA/FIFA and the shit that they get up to. The people who come out with these takes believe themselves to be so fecking above it all, too.

Yeah they think they are being profound or some shit.

 

[AshRK]

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Hitler didn't like the idea, and is a United fan it seems

Soooo.... we're saying Hitler had some bad points and good points?

I like that even among an ESL pisstake, they get a dig in on Hitler ("mein fuhrer" being subtitled to "my failure").

 

[Liver_bird]

What was the Super League going to do attract kids that just want to play fortnite? Write into the contracts of every player that they must do a dance from the game when they score?

Probably, or mandatory fortnite dance goal celebrations or getting the stars on the platforms these kids watch to appear. That alone isn’t an answer, the game has to maintain integrity but for all this we now do have to consider how we can bridge the gap and what concessions can be made. The ESL is dead, but the thought process isn’t.

Something like allowing teams to directly stream games to their audiences for a set price could be great and a good way of getting kids on board. Likewise having percentages of stadiums with capped ticket prices for under 18s. Now, your kid will be playing on their PS4 and games like war zone and fortnite or apps like TikTok they’re all free entertainment. Football as a business costs too much. I say this as someone who doesn’t mind sky’s coverage as much as most. At the minute it looks like the best hope we have is Amazon wading in and putting it all together, but how long till they the raise the prices.

 

[JohnnyKills]

No. They see it as evidence that the current CL and their domestic league's aren't worth the effort anymore. Unfortunately for them it's why the English teams couldn't risk upsetting their domestic stakeholders. I do agree with some of their arguments. UEFA need to sit down with these clubs and renegotiate the distribution.

Good take that mate.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Agnelli:

The Super League simulates what young people do on digital platforms in competition with Call of Duty, FIFA or Fortnite.

This - bizarrely - seems to have been a big factor for these people. They actually thought that most football fans would be alright with their shite concept because...young people, something something.

They have completely misread the demographic - on top of everything else.

 

[Shane88]

Hitler didn't like the idea, and is a United fan it seems

Nevermind Hitler, this is meme I'm waiting for...

 

[Dancfc]

I wonder if Neville and Linekar will give this the same energy.

 

[horsechoker]

Nevermind Hitler, this is meme I'm waiting for...

Me too

 

[Berbasbullet]

I wonder if Neville and Linekar will give this the same energy.

Harsh that we’re the example

But that’s really bad! I don’t like that at all.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I wonder if Neville and Linekar will give this the same energy.

That's all wrong.

 

[Dancfc]

Harsh that we’re the example

But that’s really bad! I don’t like that at all.

Same would go for us aswell, we would almost certainly qualify if it's based on club coefficient but I wouldn't want that either.

It's basically super league esque shit in disguise.

 

[sullydnl]

This - bizarrely - seems to have been a big factor for these people. They actually thought that most football fans would be alright with their shite concept because...young people, something something.

They have completely misread the demographic - on top of everything else.

It also ignores what was the key sticking point for most people.

If you think kids want a super league that's like a FIFA game, fine. But nothing about that obliges you to make 15 specific clubs immune from relegation based on how rich they currently are, or ensure the guest clubs who get invited along from time to time receive much less financial benefit than anyone else.

It wasn't just that people thought an ESL was a bad idea, they also thought this version of an ESL was particularly terrible. And Agnelli can't blame that on the kids.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Same would go for us aswell, we would almost certainly qualify if it's based on club coefficient but I wouldn't want that either.

It's basically super league esque shit in disguise.

Completely agree. If you miss out then you should not be in it, simple as that.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Harsh that we’re the example

But that’s really bad! I don’t like that at all.

Same would go for us aswell, we would almost certainly qualify if it's based on club coefficient but I wouldn't want that either.

It's basically super league esque shit in disguise.

I have mixed feelings about this. They aren't taking away places from the top 4 but then giving clubs outside top 4 a chance to play in the ucl who have historically done well in the competition? If there are extra slots for England then what is the problem?

 

[mitchmouse]

that's an apology? what a mealy-mouthed, utter load of drivel. The club not only needs new owners and new execs but jeez didn't eh PR people open their mouths and say; "err, this isn't going to do much to calm down the angry fans"?

Or maybe they got Prti Patel to write it for them. It amounts to: "we are very sorry if anyone (stupid) feels we upset them a little bit by what we still think is a truly wonderful idea".

Rank stupidity followed by rank arrogance

 

[TheReligion]

I wonder if Neville and Linekar will give this the same energy.

Thanks for posting. Be interested to see what details emerge of this.

 

[red4ever 79]

Well that's Evra not getting an interview for Ed's job then

 

[mitchmouse]

It also ignores what was the key sticking point for most people.

If you think kids want a super league that's like a FIFA game, fine. But nothing about that obliges you to make 15 specific clubs immune from relegation based on how rich they currently are, or ensure the guest clubs who get invited along from time to time receive much less financial benefit than anyone else.

It wasn't just that people thought an ESL was a bad idea, they also thought this version of an ESL was particularly terrible. And Agnelli can't blame that on the kids.

this was a nonsense from the start: they went on about saying that kids didn't want to watch 90 minutes of a match - then added loads of games to be played (so does the new crap CL). when was the last time one of these rich arrogant so-called geniuses listened to a kid anyway?

 

[Bebestation]

Can someone tell me what is wrong with American Sports in their eyes?

I dont follow American sports but why is it so hated in peoples eyes? Is it big because it's more a celebrity than a sport? Do you have big teams playing against big teams not because they were the best but simply because they were known as the big money making team pre tournament?

 

[mitchmouse]

Can someone tell me what is wrong with American Sports in their eyes?

I dont follow American sports but why is it so hated in peoples eyes? Is it big because it's more a celebrity than a sport? Do you have big teams playing against big teams not because they were the best but simply because they were known as the big money making team pre tournament?

I actually enjoy American Football - but I'll never understand how you can be called the best when not very team plays every other team - and pretty much no one else on the planet plays the sport! Oh, and then there's the 300 weeks of programmes on the "draft"!! Bonkers

 

[JohnnyKills]

I wonder if Neville and Linekar will give this the same energy.

Seems totally wrong. Let's hope it gets changed.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Can someone tell me what is wrong with American Sports in their eyes?

I dont follow American sports but why is it so hated in peoples eyes? Is it big because it's more a celebrity than a sport? Do you have big teams playing against big teams not because they were the best but simply because they were known as the big money making team pre tournament?

I think fundamentally the issue here is that in American sports losing and/or mediocrity are tolerated to a much greater extent. In large part I suspect this is because most Americans follow multiple sports and have teams nearby that they will cheer for. For instance, in Boston you have the Patriots (NFL), Red Sox (MLB), Celtics (NBA), Bruins (NHL), plus too many college teams to count. Many of these sports are concurrent - e.g. NCAA football and the NFL, or right now baseball, basketball, and hockey are all ongoing. This reduces the stakes for most sports because just around the corner another one will start up featuring another team you support, or you might only have to wait a day or two. I don't think this would work in football personally given how large it is compared to the other options and the extent to which there are more single-sport devotees.

It's notable that the big exception to this is the NCAA basketball tournament, which is a 68 team team single elimination bracket. Interestingly this is the most gambled event in the US every year by a huge margin - I believe it's something on the order of $10 billion gets wagered every March. If anything this would suggest to me that higher-stakes European models might do well in the US, but the problem is current professional teams make absurd amounts of money so sweeping change is unlikely.

 

[Siorac]

Can someone tell me what is wrong with American Sports in their eyes?

I dont follow American sports but why is it so hated in peoples eyes? Is it big because it's more a celebrity than a sport? Do you have big teams playing against big teams not because they were the best but simply because they were known as the big money making team pre tournament?

I can't speak for others but my problem is with the 'closed shop' nature of their system. If a 'franchise' wants to play in the NFL, they need to apply, and then the rest of the league votes on whether they let them in or not. There's no other way in, there's no promotion/relegation, no 'football pyramid' in the way it works in Europe. The other big thing is that the draft system rewards and incentivises being as shit as you possibly can if you are already shit in the first place.

I have a few more slight issues with mostly superficial stuff but these two are the big ones.

 

[Dancfc]

I have mixed feelings about this. They aren't taking away places from the top 4 but then giving clubs outside top 4 a chance to play in the ucl who have historically done well in the competition? If there are extra slots for England then what is the problem?

But then if a club are being poorly run and getting results to match, should they be rewarded based on what they were? Getting better rewards than clubs better than them who don't have the same history behind them.

I can't be bothered to check for sure but I imagine if they started doing this a few years back Arsenal would have qualified most if not every year since they dropped out of top 4, practically giving them a get out of jail free card based on their past record.

It would also give the likes of Glazers, Kroenke etc an even bigger excuse to scale down on spending if they know they'll almost certainly get a free backdoor entry in the event of failure.

 

[Shane88]

Can someone tell me what is wrong with American Sports in their eyes?

I dont follow American sports but why is it so hated in peoples eyes? Is it big because it's more a celebrity than a sport? Do you have big teams playing against big teams not because they were the best but simply because they were known as the big money making team pre tournament?

There is the phenomenon of teams tanking...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanking_(sports)

Losing on purpose and what's worse is some fans get behind it. Grim.