European Super League

Do you want the ESL to happen?

  • Total voters
    1,921
  • Poll closed .
I've pretty much stopped watching football other than Utd and some of the bigger European games anyway, even then I only half arse them. I just don't have the time I used to and football isn't what it is, it's become boring, and this will only make it even more boring. I can probably see myself no longer giving a toss at all if this goes through. The idea of us getting to play in this competition even if we're shite purely because we have the financial muscle doesn't sit right with me at all. The club has been going to the dogs for years and this will only cement it.

it's a real shame because this is the best situation we've been in football wise since Fergie retired and I was genuinely pretty excited for next season, but now? it's really hard to be.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Think the clubs have underestimated the reaction of the fans.
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That may be so. But in reality, do they really care enough to do anything about it.
As has been said. The owners of these English clubs are no more than asset managers.
They have bought an asset and as they do, will do what is necessary to gain the biggest returns.

Contrast that with the German model where the majority of the club is owned by the supporters.
 
TheGame said:
Some of these clubs are heavily in debt so its literally just a money making scheme. I don't see clubs from other nations such as Holland, Portugal, Scotland or Belgium included when some clubs from these nations have been doing better than the clubs from the top leagues listed.
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I'm sure the statement on our website mentions finance more than football.
 
Solius said:
I really don't know what to do if this actually happens. I would not want to support or watch a ESL but I also would be devastated to not have Utd in my life. Would certain players leave? Would the club ever be the same? I couldn't support anyone else so it essentially means I would stop watching football, which is one of my biggest passions in life.

It's fecked. I honestly despise these parasitic owners.
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I love watching any football but do not have an endless stream of money. I don't just watch United, but if I had to pay more to watch them, then it would mean something having to go. I hate these owners. So it would be stick with what I have now, but ignore United for being arseholes, or watch United in this league and eventually get very, very bored with it.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Brighton who could have beaten us and however late, it was a reasonable watch.

As opposed to the shit game v Chelski?

The arrogance of some to think they're the "top clubs" is staggering. For City they're successful but Leicester have won a league recently, where are they?

United are invited because of their name and brand, we haven't won the league for 8 years. They've only got that brand from a century of history and fan support (including when we got relegated - Everton haven't) which involved plenty of games v Brighton
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People say the Glazers will spend less money... but they won't be able to hide when they are 15th in the SuperLeague instead of a weak 2nd in the EPL

If anything their weaknesses will be exposed and they will have to spend more to keep up with the other "super" teams.

It's a work in progress... so I reserve judgment until this actually plays out awhile... if indeed it does get off the ground.
 
The cheek on owners who cannot even manage their clubs properly, leading them to mountains of debt (except Arsenal), thinking they can set up a competition to rival the Champions League :lol:
 
red4ever 79 said:
It's a franchise controlled and governed by a certain 12 clubs. Reminds me of an old genetlemans club. We will be in here and we cant get relegated but will still suck all the money out and wont have to put anything back in
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Yes. It is totally controlling. I have never watched American sport because it I always thought it had a cynical feel about it. I cannot support such a monopolistic jobby-coven of greedy tossers.
 
Gio said:
I'm not really buying it. Every league will have the same dynamic between the best and the rest. And the more money involved, the better the top teams will become, and the more likely the chances will be of teams playing defensive football in order to eek out points.

Let's fast forward 5 years. For argument's sake, City and Barcelona have dominated the league. Meanwhile, the likes of Arsenal and Spurs are struggling and "piggybanking on the money the big guns generate". All they care about is staying in the superleague. So what do we do then? Get rid of half the league that aren't contributing much and stinking the place out with their defensive style of play. Now we are left with 8 teams. And so on, the cycle never ends.

If we diagnose the problem here - lack of competitiveness within domestic leagues - it has actually gotten worse as the elite clubs have become richer. When you started watching the EPL in the 1990s, teams did not need 90-100 points to win the title. Teams had a go because the gap between them was not as wide. So the solution is to make that gap less wide, not make it as wide as possible through a separate superleague.
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Spurs do stick out like a sore thumb tbh. However they are the exception of the case here. There's a huge difference between Burnley and an underperforming United ie we've got an enormous fan base. Thousands of people watch us irrespective on whether we play great football or not. So even in this dire situation we'll still be carrying our weight and bringing our fair share of food to the table for everyone to share.

I disagree with your diagnosis as well. Take Aston Villa as an example. According to transfermarkt they had a net spend of 95m euros last season. That's more then what Manchester United, Bayern, Juventus, Real and Barcelona had spent. The problem with the EPL isn't the gap between the elite clubs and the smaller clubs. Its actually viceversa. These clubs are so hooked to the money generated by the top clubs that they'll do anything not to get relegated. That means that week in week out most of these teams wouldn't mind play catenaccio style against the top sides just for that 1 point. Which in turn makes the EPL boring.

We had gone on the other end. The smaller sides are too dependent on the money generated by the big guns to care about stuff like entertaining football which in turn makes the EPL attractive and popular. Which makes you wonder why should the likes of United give a feck about Aston Villa in the first place. The situation is even worse in the Serie A were top teams are often forced to sell players just to keep the darn thing afloat.

Greed is indeed a problem but it works both ways here.
 
Just have a 25 team European Super League which has relegation into various domestic leagues. At the end of each season, there can be some Superbowl type playoffs for the top 16.

The founder clubs can remain as investors for the foreseeable future. They can take a slice of the profits (thereby removing UEFA from the equation), but won't be guaranteed a spot in the league. So after Spurs inevitably get relegated, they can keep gaining revenue from competition to have a better chance of getting back in. Maybe after 5 consecutive years of no qualification, a 'founder' club can be removed and a new member voted in.

It'd be like a tweaked version of Premier League model with parachute payments, and sharing of TV revenue.
 
crossy1686 said:
The Glazers have spent more money than ever in the last 8 years so that doesn't hold true at all. I don't care what Arsenal do either, good luck to them
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Because they need champions league football money, is part of their financial model, including being written into sponsorship deals.

Now they get the money regardless.
 
red4ever 79 said:
It's a franchise controlled and governed by a certain 12 clubs. Reminds me of an old genetlemans club. We will be in here and we cant get relegated but will still suck all the money out and wont have to put anything back in
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You mean the owners will suck all the money out, it won't benefit the fans and if no relegation, why spend money on the team.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Wasn't there a rumour of Holland and Belgium merging their leagues? Could do the same with Portugal and Spain.
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Yeah, not sure how serious those rumours were.

But the fallout for these leagues will be huge too. They’re fighting for European places that will be devalued. Those leagues aren’t in great financial shapes. I can see them trying to do some ESL 2 type of thing.

European football is in huge trouble. The gap between the haves and have nots has increased over the years but now, teams from say Czech Republic who get a got pot of money to just get to the group stages, what the feck do they do now?
 
shitting in the woods. shitting in a pit. shitting in a pot. shitting in an outhouse. shitting in a flushing toilet. progress.

as a wise man once said “things never change by staying the same.” change requires willing. change requires commitment. change can be cruel. change causes anger and resentment. change creates winners and losers. like it or not, time’s relentless scythe hacks at us all. the quest to stay relevant has been the driving force of nature since the dawn of time. the time of reckoning is nigh.

teams like sunderland had their chance to be relevant. they had their chance to not be shit. they wasted it buying the likes of jack rodwell and didier ndong. they wasted it being managed by the likes of steve bruce. not a game against sunderland goes by without hoards of united fans wishing relegation on them. their fans daring to mock us for city nicking the title at the death. they must be published for the insolence shown against their superiors. the cruel and angry red god demands satisfaction. now there is a real possibility of sunderland not only being relegated but wiped from the face of the earth and all of a sudden those same voices label them an institution worth saving and cherishing. all of a sudden an away trip to the south coast is worth a thousand trips to turin.

is the premier league worth as much as it is because droves of people are flocking to watch burnley play sheffield united? why should the likes of them get a slice of the pie? due to the pandemic, joel glazer had to choose between a black and a very dark blue maybach, in previous years he would have just got both. why should he suffer just so some burnley fat cat can muscle in on the action?

a super league is what it has always been about. every game in history was destined for this moment. every year we play pretty much the same teams in the hope we finish near the head of the pack so we get to play more of the same teams the next year. in every league, in every competition, it is the same. all of the football, all of the time. what has been devised is nothing short of a time machine. it basically buys you a year every year. no need to fight the next year to qualify for the year after. you’re already there. perez and glazer have in all intents and purposes doubled your life expectancy and all they receive in return is your vitriol? your heads need a wobble. i might even go and watch a few local teams in the extra years i’ve now been granted on this earth. something i would never have considered before. this doesn’t kill the game, it breathes new life in to it. all hail the super league. huzzah.

in accordance with local law, this is a sponsored post.
 
Fox outside the box said:
I'm not missing the point. You're talking last me entirely.

Forget the flipping super league. I'm not talking about that right now.

I'm talking about the remaining clubs and the two outstanding European competitions and what happens there.

Let sjust agree the super league is awful, let's say its terrible that clubs can't get into it. Cool, agreed.

That still leaves us with the reality though that clubs like Everton etc will now be qualifying for the champions league with a regularity that they simply never has done. My question is this - could the fact that they play in a European competition with regularity ALBEIT A LESS PRESTIGIOUS VERSION, still be a good thing for those clubs?

If Everton qualified for the new champions league 10 times in 20 years, is that not better than them qualifying once as a freak result for the current champions league and only once?

That's my question. If you carry on going on abojt qualification for the super league then you're literally just not reading what I am saying. For the sake of discussions, let's just say it's bad they can't make it there. That isn't simply the be all and end all though.

What happens with the Europa and the champions league now? Does this become filled with new teams, teams who previously never qualified? If so, is there a discussion to be had about possible positives of this for those clubs?

I don't know how to word this any clearer. Do Everton stand to make more money because of future European football they likely would not have qualified for otherwise? I DON'T KNOW, THIS IS WHY I AM DISCUSSING IT AND TRYING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION. It might be that it doesn't but we're not even getting there, all anyone is stuck at is this new, third European competition. There's still two others to discuss.

As far as I know this does not replace the champions league or the Europa League. What do these competitions now look like?
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What's the point of playing in a CL that doesn't include these 15 clubs and will obviously pay far less because it isn't prestigious anymore. In fact, now these Super League clubs will make so much more money that Everton can forget ever closing the financial gap with let's say Spurs or Arsenal. How is it different from Everton battling it out with Napoli and Roma in the Europa League?

You are missing the point of merit and competitiveness. These 15 clubs should not get to dictate that they are exclusive and automatically qualify for a Super League.
 
crossy1686 said:
The Glazers have spent more money than ever in the last 8 years so that doesn't hold true at all. I don't care what Arsenal do either, good luck to them
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Spent who's money. Certainly not their own, but from the club turnover and profit.
They didn't even spend their own money to buy the club.
 
Anyone up for supporting a new Manchester City United club?

Rather that than this utter abomination of an idea.

F**k you City, I'm ashamed of the club I've loved for nigh on 50 years.
 
For people that are wondering about competitiveness, they should keep in mind that this league is created for revenue and the owners need to have a sexy and entertaining product on the field week in week out. So like the NFL, they will make sure to keep us hooked by artificially creating competition one of the ways is for example to have a salary cap and floor, there is also the system of free agency and even an entry draft.
 
The new league represents an American takeover of elite European football, which will become a closed shop run by its founder members.

One source described it as ‘a US-led operation’, adding: ‘This is down mostly to the Americans at Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal who have believed for a long time that they should be making a lot more money.'
 
crossy1686 said:
Why will it? As a fan of a club that's just doubled its income, will you be satisfied with a lack of recruitment and falling behind the other SL teams? Will that sit well with the Chelsea fan base?
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Will the owners care?

Same answer as for how much they care about fan opinion of the super league.
 
crossy1686 said:
Why would Madrid sell a player to United when they're competing in the same league and have equal funding?
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These clubs are at the top of the food chain not bottom.

They groom a lot less world class players than they buy young from smaller clubs.
 
crossy1686 said:
The Glazers have spent more money than ever in the last 8 years so that doesn't hold true at all. I don't care what Arsenal do either, good luck to them
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They've spent money on the team as there were financial consequences to the team struggling and missing out on CL places. Though not so much as to prevent them taking out plenty.

Under a SL they would have successfully removed the financial impact of under-investment in the team or sporting failure. So why would they invest money in the team? Whether United are winning the SL or are a b-franchise who don't compete with the rest makes no difference to them.
 
Sentient Meat said:
People say the Glazers will spend less money... but they won't be able to hide when they are 15th in the SuperLeague instead of a weak 2nd in the EPL

If anything their weaknesses will be exposed and they will have to spend more to keep up with the other "super" teams.

It's a work in progress... so I reserve judgment until this actually plays out awhile... if indeed it does get off the ground.
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Will they care, the fans will care, but if no relegation why will they bother.
 
crossy1686 said:
Why will it? As a fan of a club that's just doubled its income, will you be satisfied with a lack of recruitment and falling behind the other SL teams? Will that sit well with the Chelsea fan base?
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Because there is no threat of relegation here, or no consequences not to do well. They will be guranteed an x amount of income each season. You think the Glazers will care if we finish at the bottom of this.
 
Buster15 said:
Spent who's money. Certainly not their own, but from the club turnover and profit.
They didn't even spend their own money to buy the club.
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It's weird football isn't it? It's the only industry where an owner is expected to buy a club and then completely empty their pockets every summer and get absolutely nothing out of it.
 
When Chelsea qualified for what was the first version of the European Cup in 1955 the FA bullied them not to take part. Utd 12 months later were the first English club to participate.

I truly believe that there a lot of hypocrites re this matter.

Sky are stoking the flames yet it was them that bought about the PL. It was them that split darts and yet here they are protecting the status quo.Perhaps they are concerned about not getting the TV deal !

The reality is that the 6 English club that have been named are very unlikely to be relegated from the PL and save the odd betting scandal nor are any of the other 9 clubs from their leagues. Are supporters fed up with say Utd playing Chelsea everyseason. Of course they aren’t

If this was what was being proposed as a new version of the CL then probably there wouldn’t be anywhere near the negativity .

As for supporters not attending, yep they will be it the long standing supporters or more likely mid week football tourists.

Harsh to say but at most clubs already fill a significant number of the seats at their midweek games.

Lets get this in perspective this is not replacing the PL but is a midweek tournament.Yes it’s a tournament that will mean more games but the supposed UEFA changes would mean more games.

Will it go ahead ?

One way or another the big clubs will get a bigger share of UEFAs cake be it from a breakaway tournament or a more lucrative deal from UEFA
 
crossy1686 said:
More like 5% were against, there was a lot of people salivating at being state rich.
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Not really. Sure some fans that just don't care, but the fans that frequent this forum that has any notion of tradition are very vocally against this.

No one wants the saudi royal family to have a ownership interest in this club.
 
VorZakone said:
What's the point of playing in a CL that doesn't include these 15 clubs and will obviously pay far less because it isn't prestigious anymore. In fact, now these Super League clubs will make so much more money that Everton can forget ever closing the financial gap with let's say Spurs or Arsenal. How is it different from Everton battling it out with Napoli and Roma in the Europa League?

You are missing the point of merit and competitiveness. These 15 clubs should not get to dictate that they are exclusive and automatically qualify for a Super League.
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TV companies will not pay the money they do now is those clubs are not in it. Sky will try to lower the cost of their package as will BT. It will be disastrous for those clubs who rely on that money.
 
crossy1686 said:
It's weird football isn't it? It's the only industry where an owner is expected to buy a club and then completely empty their pockets every summer and get absolutely nothing out of it.
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the MUFC board is the only club in the Premier League that take share dividends.

Manchester United is the only club in the Premier League that is this badly riddled in debt.

Why are you defending this?
 
red4ever 79 said:
Because there is no threat of relegation here, or no consequences not to do well. They will be guranteed an x amount of income each season. You think the Glazers will care if we finish at the bottom of this.
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Of course they do! You know what's better than finish last in a SL? Finishing 1st. You know why? Mega coin, that's why. Imagine the sponsors? We'd have a club shop on Mars.

There's always more money to be made so don't think for a second they believe this is only reason they bought completed a hostile takeover of United
 
rimaldo said:
shitting in the woods. shitting in a pit. shitting in a pot. shitting in an outhouse. shitting in a flushing toilet. progress.

as a wise man once said “things never change by staying the same.” change requires willing. change requires commitment. change can be cruel. change causes anger and resentment. change creates winners and losers. like it or not, time’s relentless scythe hacks at us all. the quest to stay relevant has been the driving force of nature since the dawn of time. the time of reckoning is nigh.

teams like sunderland had their chance to be relevant. they had their chance to not be shit. they wasted it buying the likes of jack rodwell and didier ndong. they wasted it being managed by the likes of steve bruce. not a game against sunderland goes by without hoards of united fans wishing relegation on them. their fans daring to mock us for city nicking the title at the death. they must be published for the insolence shown against their superiors. the cruel and angry red god demands satisfaction. now there is a real possibility of sunderland not only being relegated but wiped from the face of the earth and all of a sudden those same voices label them an institution worth saving and cherishing. all of a sudden an away trip to the south coast is worth a thousand trips to turin.

is the premier league worth as much as it is because droves of people are flocking to watch burnley play sheffield united? why should the likes of them get a slice of the pie? due to the pandemic, joel glazer had to choose between a black and a very dark blue maybach, in previous years he would have just got both. why should he suffer just so some burnley fat cat can muscle in on the action?

a super league is what it has always been about. every game in history was destined for this moment. every year we play pretty much the same teams in the hope we finish near the head of the pack so we get to play more of the same teams the next year. in every league, in every competition, it is the same. all of the football, all of the time. what has been devised is nothing short of a time machine. it basically buys you a year every year. no need to fight the next year to qualify for the year after. you’re already there. perez and glazer have in all intents and purposes doubled your life expectancy and all they receive in return is your vitriol? your heads need a wobble. i might even go and watch a few local teams in the extra years i’ve now been granted on this earth. something i would never have considered before. this doesn’t kill the game, it breathes new life in to it. all hail the super league. huzzah.

in accordance with local law, this is a sponsored post.
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:lol:
 
Among all that has already been said, it has to be noted than the United hierarchy are absolute p*ssi*s. All the other clubs have tweeted their official statements, and United haven’t. They know exactly how this will be received by the fans, and so meekly hid it into the website rather than tweet about it.

If you’re so proud of this move you’ve been working towards for however long, then why be scared to broadcast it?
 
If you are supporting this just feck off. You are like a lamb being led to the slaughter. Absolute morons.
 
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