European Super League

Do you want the ESL to happen?

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    1,921
  • Poll closed .
RedDevil@84 said:
There is nothing more boring than have a competition that allows 15 teams to be permanent members. It maybe exciting for year or two maybe, but then the interest would dwindle, because it is the same s**t again and again. Which means that the organizers would need to do things to make it interesting for the audience, especially the on screen audience who generate big revenue. Which means bringing "packaged entertainment" to the audience.
Actual football, though not in the second place, would just be only one part of the "entertainment package" to be put out there. There will be so much drama beyond that.
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By packaged entertaining do you mean that the overall goal is to throw in commercials in the NFL? It's a valid concern, but I haven't heard that mentioned anywhere. I just don't know if it's necessary/something you would do, as long as the money keeps flowing in from revenues, and the goal is to make a more entertaining format than Champions League.

However I agree, it'll be less versatile that's for sure. The money will only go to the big clubs over a period of years, so the lesser clubs like Leicester will generate less money and have a tough time to compete in the long run, effectively making the gap between the 15/20 and the rest enormously big. It would probably also make the national leagues quite boring, as the gap of quality will continue to spread into that one.
 
Dreadful, dreadful idea. A league where teams are selected because of their wealth as demonstrated by the inclusion of six english sides, where that wealth is protected from threats like relegation in a closed club based on a snapshot of who the biggest, richest clubs are right now. Tottenham selected as some kind of luminary despite not having won the league since 1961. Even the Tories find this offensive. The vast majority of sides and even European countries excluded. Absolutely insulting.
 
devilish said:
I very much doubt it. Inter has a better manager and a way better squad then Everton and Villa.
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That amazing manager got them nowhere in UCL 2 season's in a row - GS elimination. This season they're only winning the Serie A because of that potato of a manager Juve has
 
Money and quality wise, the ESL is a much better proposition than the fifa/uefa model.

However, the beauty of any competition is having the little teams surprise the big ones.

If they find a way to also invite other teams, like the UCL now does, the current competitions are in trouble.

Other than that, I don't see anything wrong with it. It's not like uefa and fifa haven't been corrupt as feck in the last 30 years.
 
youmeletsfly said:
Money and quality wise, the ESL is a much better proposition than the fifa/uefa model.

However, the beauty of any competition is having the little teams surprise the big ones.

If they find a way to also invite other teams, like the UCL now does, the current competitions are in trouble.

Other than that, I don't see anything wrong with it. It's not like uefa and fifa haven't been corrupt as feck in the last 30 years.
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Why?
 
Cricket fans will remember similar arguments against the T20, IPL, and Kerry Packer. Players clubs and national associations have had to relent and give permission for players to take part.
 
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Ixion said:
Which makes it meaningless. A competition devoid of integrity.
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I mean, in Rugby League I remember that the Huddersfield Giants weren't relegated for years despite the fact that they kept finishing bottom for commercial and infrastructure reasons. I'm sure that all the Super League wins still mean as much to the fans and the winners of it.
 
I really hope we get severely punished for this. As well as the other 6 teams too, kick them out of competitions.

I always knew greed would Eventually kill football in some way but didn’t realise it would be so soon.
 
devilish said:
Spurs and Milan will stick out like a sore thumb. However United will not. The problem with us is that our style of game is unsuited in breaking catenaccio football played by most small EPL clubs.

However why worry? If the likes of Everton play such entertaining football then surely fans from all over the world will come to watch it. Surely you don't need the big six to attract money at your club.
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I'm not talking about us. It's funny, you're the second poster in a couple of days that can't handle your club or opinion being criticised so need to have a pop at Everton when they aren't even in the discussion.

Ah right, so you're style of play is unsuited so instead of doing what football is all about and creating tactics, styles etc. to win the league that you're in you'll decide to just hop off to another league that you have no idea if you'll be good in that either.

The reason I dislike this is not because of anything to do with Everton or the PL. It has everything to do with the fact that this goes against so many principles of what makes football brilliant. Promotion/Relegation, domestic rivalries, grassroots football etc.
 
Sultan said:
Cricket fans will remember similar arguments against the T20, IPL, and Kerry Packer. Players clubs and national associations have had to relent and give permission for players to take part in these T20 competitions such are the financial benefits to players they don't need to play for their countries or clubs.
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Out of curiosity how has it been? Entertaining, boring, meh?
 
youmeletsfly said:
Other than that, I don't see anything wrong with it. It's not like uefa and fifa haven't been corrupt as feck in the last 30 years.
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You don't see anything wrong with teams being exempt from relegation based on their brand? As a football fan that doesn't seem wrong?

And when these games are being played in other countries and the clubs become more and more detached from where they were from, and your season ticket is just access to a streaming service, you'll still see nothing wrong?
 
ROFLUTION said:
By packaged entertaining do you mean that the overall goal is to throw in commercials in the NFL? It's a valid concern, but I haven't heard that mentioned anywhere. I just don't know if it's necessary/something you would do, as long as the money keeps flowing in from revenues, and the goal is to make a more entertaining format than Champions League.

However I agree, it'll be less versatile that's for sure. The money will only go to the big clubs over a period of years, so the lesser clubs like Leicester will generate less money and have a tough time to compete in the long run, effectively making the gap between the 15/20 and the rest enormously big. It would probably also make the national leagues quite boring, as the gap of quality will continue to spread into that one.
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It is just not the commercials, rules would be modified/tweaked, breaks taken much more etc etc. Because the intent would not just be to provide football as entertainment, but to provide entertainment along with some football.
Though I dislike FIFA, UEFA and pretty much arrogant fools in all positions of power in football, they do a pretty ok job to keep football competitive and at least put in a bit of surprise element in there. Once a huge chunk of teams are given permanent positions, it is a buzz kill. Big teams should feel the need to give their best, domestically as well as across Europe.
 
devilish said:
The Serie A had seen better days but Inter and AC Milan can still produce better football then the one offered by Burnley. However what I am tackling here is the mentality. When I started watching the EPL it was by far the 3rd best league in the world. United would have struggled to be a Serie A top 7 team. However each game was entertaining. These days most small-mid sized side will play catenaccio style just to earn that 1 point against the top side. That's frigging boring.
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What you are saying would still be replicated in any super league. Except without the threat of relegation which would be new levels of boring.

When you have a gulf in resources between the best and the rest, you don’t pour petrol on it and systematically make it much bigger. When competition is the lifeblood of the sport you end up with a better product by spreading investment out, not funnelling it entirely into a handful of uber-rich clubs.
 
Ixion said:
You don't see anything wrong with teams being exempt from relegation based on their brand? As a football fan that doesn't seem wrong?

And when these games are being played in other countries and the clubs become more and more detached from where they were from, and your season ticket is just access to a streaming service, you'll still see nothing wrong?
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*Playing devil's advocate again*
While I agree on this whole relegation-point it could be boring, isn't it ALWAYS the same clubs who are in the CL anyways? I mean is it much that really change with this new format? Should we even be mad? It's already the same teams again and again that are sure to be in the CL.
 
ROFLUTION said:
*Playing devil's advocate again*
While I agree on this whole relegation-point it could be boring, isn't it ALWAYS the same clubs who are in the CL anyways? I mean is it much that really change with this new format? Should we even be mad? It's already the same teams again and again that are sure to be in the CL.
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But it isn't always the same clubs in the Champions League....we've missed out on it several times recentlly? Leicester won the League and went straight in as top seeds>
 
Sultan said:
Cricket fans will remember similar arguments against the T20, IPL, and Kerry Packer. Players clubs and national associations have had to relent and give permission for players to take part in these T20 competitions such are the financial benefits to players they don't need to play for their countries or clubs.
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Strangely enough, I remember Sky really pushing that idea at the time.
 
Sultan said:
Again money. Premier League would lose the elite clubs and players. Cut your nose to spite your face, basically.
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But now they’re threatening to kick them out already. Of course, this might be a game of poker and the clubs just end up participating in both. What really pisses me off is that unless this idea gets shut down soon, we’re going to lose the Champions League, possibly forever. The competition that brought the Busby Babes to prominence, the competition that capped off the treble in 1999.
nokillingmoths said:
As of now they haven't really done anything legally wrong I would guess.
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That is true, but if FIFA does do it, a) who can these pricks who calls themselves owners of these great clubs even appeal to, and b) on what grounds can they even appeal?

Clearly UEFA doesn’t think anything relating to legal issues is going to affect them in a negative way, considering that they are looking to sue the clubs already.
 
Ixion said:
Kick City, Chelsea and Real out of the Champions League and award it to PSG (as horrible as they are). Kick us and Arsenal out of the Europa, let Villarreal and Roma play the final. Dock point and make sure West Ham, Everton and Leicester qualify for next year and start building up more "big" teams.

If they don't want to be part of the competitions then don't let them be.
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If they kick us out next year as well then those team will already qualify. They need to kick us out indefinitely while the idea of this new league exists, and there needs a to be a domestic punishment where we are either kicked out of the leagues altogether or relegated.

Actually, feck it, relegate us to the bottom division and introduce new salary caps for each tier of the domestic league.
 
Sultan said:
Cricket fans will remember similar arguments against the T20, IPL, and Kerry Packer. Players clubs and national associations have had to relent and give permission for players to take part in these T20 competitions such are the financial benefits to players they don't need to play for their countries or clubs.
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Only thing is that in cricket, the player is pretty much representing the national team for most of the time. In football, player is representing the nation and then club as well.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
It is just not the commercials, rules would be modified/tweaked, breaks taken much more etc etc. Because the intent would not just be to provide football as entertainment, but to provide entertainment along with some football.
Though I dislike FIFA, UEFA and pretty much arrogant fools in all positions of power in football, they do a pretty ok job to keep football competitive and at least put in a bit of surprise element in there. Once a huge chunk of teams are given permanent positions, it is a buzz kill. Big teams should feel the need to give their best, domestically as well as across Europe.
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But how do you know this? If you say incentives of the league, isn't there also incentives to not piss off mad-fans? There's a lot of anger around this, so they'd want to please the fans, so it doesn't become NFL type of entertainment, no?

I don't agree at all that they do an ok job to keep football competitive. There's so many legs and knockout rounds in each competition that it filters out entertainment. The entertainment is not compact at all, I believe. There used to be a time where Denmark could win 5-6 matches and become European Champions, or Ajax could do the same and become Champions League winners. These 5 extra-spaces in the league could be for champions of the leagues like in the old days, and make it all more entertaining. Say if United, Spurs, Liverpool win the Premier League, then the spot goes on to Holland, Belgium, etc, depending on who the strongest team is. It could also drive out clubs like City in the long run, if done effectively, which I'm all for.
 
Sultan said:
Would I be right in thinking these so-called superclubs just want more games and guaranteed income by forming this new Super League? Out goes the Champions League in exchange for the new format. Surely, they want to still participate in domestic competitions? Basically, these teams would have a massive squad competing for both domestic titles and the Super League.
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No, they are not just want more games. They are not willing other smaller club to have a chance to be competitive with them forever. (Like Leicester will be out in the future)
You will not see the "Superclubs" fight for the domestic competitions if they have no hope to get the title in beginning of the season, even, they will not fight for 2nd and 4th place in the domestic because it will become unnecessarily. They will play in the super league forever no matter how shite of the club was and how the club mismanaged. Then you will see Man United vs RM, Liverpool vs Juventus every year until doomsday.

And, the cash pool will be increased but not unlimited, the money from domestic will exchange to super league because most attractive club will be in there. How about the rest club of domestic league, they will get less and less operation fee in the cash pool and no chance to join into the super league. Then it will be looped in the circuit. More money to super league and less money to domestic league. A few years later, would anybody in the world (not in home town) care about domestic league exclude super league? probably no.

Also, if the super league become success, i do not think they will not increase the the fixture and shift to weekend which will kill the domestic league immediately. This is a unhealthy and a chronic poison for the football competition. Now, they are trying to force UEFA to swallow this poison. (accept them playing in mid-week and play the domestic league until their league become untouchable)

But, if the players cannot join the national competition like World Cup, Euro etc, will all of them really like to join the devil with mega money?
 
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The only presumable benefit from this entire super league enterprise is the potential for women’s football to gain a bit more popularity and infrastructural funding.

Apart from that I see no other benefit to the average football fan
 
Has anybody got a clue how the European football market compares with the Asian one etc.? I mean, they have to fear that they lose the European market entirely.

I also wonder if they really got the calculations correct. 10 guaranteed games against world class opposition sounda nice on paper but realistically the effect will wear off quickly. In no time, United playing Tottenham is the new United playing Sheffield. And Barcelona playing Juventus is the new Barca playing Sevilla. The atmosphere that surrounded these ties in the knockout stages of the CL will be no more.

My hope is FIFA/UEFA forbidding their players to play the WC leading to a player rebellion now. One would have thought the acting clubs ould have thought that through but I wouldn't put it past them that they are so estranged from reality that these reactions come as a surprise to them.
 
The great thing about this is - that it's Arsenal and Spurs highlight of the season now.

20/21 Season Review - the year we made it to the super League!
 
Sounds crazy but football without United is meaningless to me personally. Call me selfish I will always follow United wherever they play. I'd rather watch United's development teams than other leagues void of United in those competitions. I could care less for yesterdays FA Cup game. The City game interested me due to my blind loyalty to United and not wanting them to win.
 
If the only change they made was that all 20 places were earned through domestic competition then I could get on board with this. Otherwise I don’t want a ‘soccer nfl’.
 
Zehner said:
Has anybody got a clue how the European football market compares with the Asian one etc.? I mean, they have to fear that they lose the European market entirely.

I also wonder if they really got the calculations correct. 10 guaranteed games against world class opposition sounda nice on paper but realistically the effect will wear off quickly. In no time, United playing Tottenham is the new United playing Sheffield. And Barcelona playing Juventus is the new Barca playing Sevilla. The atmosphere that surrounded these ties in the knockout stages of the CL will be no more.

My hope is FIFA/UEFA forbidding their players to play the WC leading to a player rebellion now. One would have thought the acting clubs ould have thought that through but I wouldn't put it past them that they are so estranged from reality that these reactions come as a surprise to them.
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My question is - what right does FIFA or UEFA have to do that? How did UEFA secure exclusivity to European club competition? I'm still waiting for this answer
 
Spurs have won two league titles in their history and not since the 60, and have never won the European Cup. That grants them special status to never be relegated. feck off.
 
Skills said:
My question is - what right does FIFA or UEFA have to do that? How did UEFA secure exclusivity to European club competition? I'm still waiting for this answer
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This, I don't get neither. I'd like to be informed on it however. Don't see how having a monopoly on creating a leagues obey to EU-laws neither.
 
Nani Nana said:
It takes very different attributes to run a club and to run a competition.

Florentino Perez, Glazer etc have no idea how to run a competition as smoothly as UEFA have ran the Champions League for decades.

It would have been reassuring to see at least one top official from FIFA or UEFA joining the project.

As it stands, club owners running a competition is like asking footballers to negotiate merchandising rights for their clubs.
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Haha, FIFA/UEFA have their own history of shoddy work and corruption. The big one being the 2022 WC

They dont own football. And the clubs themselves make the competition great and useful. Not the other way around.

its not about right or wrong as both ways, fans lose. But I dislike how these elite organisations are only threatening and blackmailing , for reactions for this news.
 
I do not understand posters that defend this crap. European football was based upon the relegation system, and the good thing about it were that smaller clubs can have success by doing things well. If only size and money matters, what is then football? For me, I remember proudly when my club reached the quarter finals of the CL in 96. I remember when we beat Real Madrid, Dortmund, PSG, Valencia, Porto, AC Milan... All this achieved due to a great coach, a great pretty much local team that worked together as a team and a club that worked within a system that allowed each nations league winner to try themselves against the best of Europe.

Now this is extremely hard to repeat. The differences are bigger than ever. It is impossible to compete due to the good players always leaving for big salaries and seeding system disabling lesser teams when they have a golden generation team.

But this new League pretty much puts up a wall. We will not be able to play the biggest clubs. They have made themselves a league where they do not even need to perform! It is cheating, it is unfair and it is not football! It is just a commercial moneygrabbing machine!

Uefa might be bad, even worse so for listening to much to the big clubs and making systems that benefit the biggest teams and leagues. But still, there was a small chance for the smaller clubs and nations to compete! Where is the charm and motivation for us to play European football when even the theoretical chance of success at the highest level is gone? What is the point?

Some people from the bigger clubs feel they are entitled to all the money, all the benefits, just due to being BIG.

I would rather have it the other way around. More rules ensuring the rights of the smaller clubs and nations. God, I miss when players were loyal to clubs and the salaries were not astronomical. When men were men and the world was not such an immoral greedy shit house.

I have lost all respect for these clubs, and at the same time feel sorry for their fans, who have been deceived and let down. It is YOUR club but private investors have stolen your club and it might never be returned.

Still, without being big or playing in a super league, my club will still be run by people elected by fans, and the fans will always be able to vote against things they do not like. Like our fans voted for a stand against Qatar this year. And due to this system, will never be hi-jacked. The club will never have the same chances again, but will forever be the fans club.
 
ROFLUTION said:
Out of curiosity how has it been? Entertaining, boring, meh?
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Exciting for a few hours and it then quickly fades from memory. Again, no promotion or relegation just pride and extra prize money for the winners.
 
Just incase people do not understand what this means

'The league they have agreed to form — an alliance of top clubs closer in concept to closed leagues like the N.F.L. and the N.B.A. than soccer’s current model'

The new superleague model would change that, by stripping the Champions League of its most attractive and most successful teams and effectively walling off the richest clubs in their own closed competition — and allowing them to split the billions of dollars in annual revenue among themselves. According to the Super League’s announcement, the founding clubs will split 3.5 billion euros (almost $4.2 billion) for signing on to establish “a sustainable financial foundation.” The per-team figure means each founding club will receive about $400 million — more than four times what the Champions League winner took home in 2020.
The 12 teams that signed up as founders are, for the moment, limited to a dozen clubs from Spain, Italy and England. A cohort of six teams from the Premier League — United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham — represents the biggest grouping from a single country. Atlético Madrid is the other team from Spain that is said to have endorsed the project, while the Milan rivals Internazionale and A.C. Milan would join Juventus as Italy’s representatives.

Three more clubs will join as founding — and thus permanent — members, organizers said, and a qualifying mechanism will be created to fill the five other places in the 20-team Super League each season.
 
This is an attempt to turn European Football into the NFL. If you can't see that and don't see how bad it would be for all the other teams not involved and the fans of the teams not involved I don't know what to say. The next step is United are a globetrotting Brand for this new franchise playing their games abroad and your season ticket is access to a streaming service. Changing the team to whatever country we decide to play our "home" games in that year.

"Manchester United are excited to announce we'll be playing 3 of our home games for the upcoming season in Singapore for our amazing fans there. We'll also be showing the games on a big screen at Old Trafford for our loyal season ticket holders." - Doesn't actually sound far fetched does it?
 
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Fox outside the box said:
I don't think it's so far removed from the current champions league that it will make any real impact, no. At least not on the info I've seen so far.

These are clubs who typically consistently qualify for the champions league at the expense of these clubs you claim to care about.

If anything, this means the likes of Everton, West Ham, Wolves etc will qualify for the other 2 and actually get European nights. Maybe less prestigious but still another competition which would probably still bring then more revenue etc.

What you say seems to assume that this is the one and only competition that exists or matters. It isn't now and won't be then. It adds a layer and maybe the entry to the very top is nigh on impossible but they still get to have a European night against a team like Roma or Lyon.

Instead of there being 2 competitions - champions league and europa - there will be 3, those 2 and the super league.

I'm not even saying I'm in favour but trying to at least think it through. Are these completely invalid points?
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You seem to be completely missing the point. These 15 clubs should not get to decide they're above the rest.

It is fundamentally unfair to all other clubs.
 
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