European Super League

Do you want the ESL to happen?

  • Total voters
    1,921
  • Poll closed .
Annihilate Now! said:
Thats changing an existing competition slightly, much like the invention of the Premier League... Its very different to creating a brand new competition with zero history and 100% privilege
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Sorry, but that was not slightly, that was a huge deal, we literaly were able to win it because of that. Like the changes that came few years later. It was actually a new competition as it become a league. Of course this is bigger, but let's face it, the only problem here is how the teams will treat the domestic league if they stay in it. And it could be a big problem, I admit it. The CL with now 36 clubs is really becoming a joke. As I have said before, for the first time in my life I did not watch the european cup and reason was number of teams.

But, I stopped watching most of the football a few years ago, so maybe this is much easier for me to take as I did not like the changes back then and the money involved. I mean 4th place become bigger then the FA Cup and all that because of these "slightly" changes.
 
Fox outside the box said:
Will it? Instead of assuming that has anybody asked the likes of Marcus Rashford?

Why won't it mean as much? You can finish second now and still automatically qualify for the champions league. There's no real difference between second and first, other than the title. I'd say we've comfortably qualified for the cl and we can't win the league. Was Mason not trying tonight? Did the players just down tools because they can win the league? Did they only play well because they have a fight for cl qualification?

No. They played well because they are professional footballers. They also love the game and grew up playing the game to win. You see teams still trying, even when they are getting battered. You see results like 8-2, 7-1, because players even at that point, knackered, humiliated, nothing to play for, still typically try. People say players look disinterested now and maybe some would act and feel as you describe, on occasions at least. That doesn't mean it will be the majority of them, all the time. It's being massively blown out of proportion.
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Well said.

The other obvious point is that league games being “meaningless” if you weren’t in the title chase or threatened with relegation is...how football worked for a very very long time. And yet players still played hard, fans enjoyed the sport, and the sky didn’t fall.
 
Why should any club, founding or otherwise, have an automatic pass into a European competition? We're not operating within a franchise model, so, where's the ethics that opens this up to all teams fairly and equally? How do you justify teams never having to face expulsion?
 
The "greed" argument feels somewhat hollow when only a few months ago the PL/FA were trying to charge fans £15 a game to watch their own team during a pandemic.

The game sold out to greed a long time ago. Now its just about which greedy person you would prefer being in control of the pie. Much as I can see why no one has time for greedy club owners, UEFA/FIFA are inherently greedy and corrupt, and the FA is run by a bunch of raving, bigotted racist idiots. Its probably actually a good thing if some of the control is wrestled away from them. Just a shame its only the elite clubs doing it to suit their own ends, rather than all clubs coming together.

Although I'm against the idea, principally because it sounds completely shite. A "European" super league, but where nearly half the teams are English and half of who can barely compete against the likes of Aston Villa. How is the competition ever going to have any meaning or entertainment value if its so blatantly corrupted in its set up? Basically Eurovision but if it was a year long and tried to pretend it was the pinaccle of world music.
 
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Hoof The Ball said:
Why should any club, founding or otherwise, have an automatic pass into a European competition? We're not operating within a franchise model, so, where's the ethics that opens this up to all teams fairly and equally? How do you justify teams never having to face expulsion?
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Think of it as a cool kids' club.
 
Ole's screen said:
Why though? Winning the league is still winning the league. We want to keep Liverpool from getting 20. We wanna get the 21st. Need to break City's Hegemony. The only thing it would change is that 6 of the clubs would not care about the top 4 battle and isn't that what our fans make fun of us for these days? Caring about the top 4 trophy? West Ham and Leicester still want the top 4.
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You're right. Oh how I saw Arsenal fans mocked for celebrating top 4. I think suggestions that the players will just not bother is absurd.

It's actually showing a lot of fans up. Very few seem to be making genuine arguments about why it's bad for other clubs, I'm not actually seeing any real meat to why it's bad. It's just a giant toddler tantrum at the moment, there's almost no actual discussion. Just posts containing no more than 'I feel like I've been stabbed in the heart'.

People have fallen for the broadcaster rage hook, line and sinker. Neville didn't make any actual points either and I think everyone is just copying him and others like him because he's managed to get them seething and angry at 'the man'.

I actually feel the standard of punditry on this has been a disgrace. Lots of one liners and clichés, no actual derails or substance as to why its bad, not even the remote entertainment that it could be good and that's how you know they are being dishonest. Such a transparent kick off because some very rich people are worried. Rio on BT rambled almost the exact same thing as Neville and not in a good way, not in a 'these guys have points' here way. Rio seemed like he was struggling to remember what he'd been told to say and fell back on just saying what he'd heard Gary say. The broadcasters are shitting themselves and it's for the same greedy reasons that those who want the super league, want the super league. It's not because of the fans, they've been fleecing the fans for years. Sky have been suckling 'the soul' from football for you ars. Propping up the top clubs etc, doing everything they are ranting about now. This is an act of defence and fans have lapped it up.

There are potential positives to at least talk about, there are concerns to be had but its impossible to have a proper discussion amongst all the melodrama.
 
Could the PL actually dock points for this? I mean from a world burning stand point all these teams getting docked 30 points would be great... But could they actually? And if so on what grounds?
 
tjb said:
I don't like the exclusivity, but I think that will be fixed overtime like it was with the European cup. Let's be honest, even in terms of internationals, UEFA has never shown regard for top clubs. Look at the UEFA Nations League nonsense, who did they consult. Its a power game between UEFA and top clubs, if the FA wants to get involved they can too, as they constantly overreach in terms of punishments and refereeing. Remember how poorly they handled the Cavani incident. The level of arrogance they keep showing towards manager fines for complaints. This is a power play and the media acting like this is the death of football is a narrative.
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A few people keep repeating this about it being a media line that it's the death of football. No sorry, for many of us this would indeed be the deathknell of the game for us, at least as supporters of these teams.
 
Fox outside the box said:
You're right. Oh how I saw Arsenal fans mocked for celebrating top 4. I think suggestions that the players will just not bother is absurd.

It's actually showing a lot of fans up. Very few seem to be making genuine arguments about why it's bad for other clubs, I'm not actually seeing any real meat to why it's bad. It's just a giant toddler tantrum at the moment, there's almost no actual discussion. Just posts containing no more than 'I feel like I've been stabbed in the heart'.

People have fallen for the broadcaster rage hook, line and sinker. Neville didn't make any actual points either and I think everyone is just copying him and others like him because he's managed to get them seething and angry at 'the man'.

I actually feel the standard of punditry on this has been a disgrace. Lots of one liners and clichés, no actual derails or substance as to why its bad, not even the remote entertainment that it could be good and that's how you know they are being dishonest. Such a transparent kick off because some very rich people are worried. Rio on BT rambled almost the exact same thing as Neville and not in a good way, not in a 'these guys have points' here way. Rio seemed like he was struggling to remember what he'd been told to say and fell back on just saying what he'd heard Gary say. The broadcasters are shitting themselves and it's for the same greedy reasons that those who want the super league, want the super league. It's not because of the fans, they've been fleecing the fans for years. Sky have been suckling 'the soul' from football for you ars. Propping up the top clubs etc, doing everything they are ranting about now. This is an act of defence and fans have lapped it up.

There are potential positives to at least talk about, there are concerns to be had but its impossible to have a proper discussion amongst all the melodrama.
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So you have no problem with how arbitrary this is? 15 clubs decide in 2021 that they are exclusive, they get to form a Super League where they'll never relegate. The other clubs can go feck themselves.

Would you have agreed with a Super League in 1980 including Nottingham Forest who had won back-to-back European Cups?
 
Kentonio said:
A few people keep repeating this about it being a media line that it's the death of football. No sorry, for many of us this would indeed be the deathknell of the game for us, at least as supporters of these teams.
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Oh really? What about when Roman waltzed in some 18 years ago and bought half the planet? Or spent 200 million last year?

Was that due to merit?
 
You would think that a club like Roma with their american owner would be invited.
 
VidaRed said:
Im amazed that most people are totally ignorant about this. Specially the british parliament, since there's no written constitution the parliament itself is the sovereign and pass any law it wanted to.
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Yep and for once, I’m thankful a populist like Boris is in charge because he’s going to eat with pleasure the Glazers and co when he will learn the people don’t want those breakaway leagues, especially since he needs to amend for the Brexit and COVID disasters.
 
Don't watch it yea guys that's the answer isn't it. Stadiums full of fans booing just don't watch. It won't wash.
 
Gasolin said:
Yep and for once, I’m thankful a populist like Boris is in charge because he’s going to eat with pleasure the Glazers and co when he will learn the people don’t want those breakaway leagues, especially since he needs to amend for the Brexit and COVID disasters.
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:lol:

You know that he's a tory right? Money before anything.
 
Taken from James Corbett on twitter, who claims to have seen a copy of the "Super League Document".

  • The plan would guarantee massive income to a 15 club elite and cement financial gaps not only between those competing in the Super league and those not, but within it. The plan envisages one off payments of up to €350 million to the fifteen founder members, but only six clubs would receive the full amount with five of the initial members receiving just €100 or €112.5 million.

  • The 15 breakaway clubs have generously deigned to allow 5 merit based qualifiers each season. But the system is totally skewed against them. They have no say in running the Super League and are entirely excluded from a commercial pot worth 15% of income. Moreover, there is an 'equal' share of revenue that is not equal at all. The qualifiers are excluded from half of this pot of money (worth around €1.85 BILLION)

  • At the same time, the organisers have shown their contempt for rewarding sporting success. You get given a ton of money for playing (about €180m for the group stage), but prize money is quite small - worth perhaps €30m extra for winning it. Which is small change, really. If you win the Champions League, by contrast, you earn about €120million - or 300% more than just making the group stage

  • At the same time, if, say Leicester or Everton, were to qualify and actually win it - despite everything being skewed against them - they would earn around half the amount Barca or Real would be guaranteed JUST FOR COMPETING IN THE GROUP STAGE. Essentially this has been devised by a cabal of greedy, stupid and desperate individuals who care nothing about football, competitiveness or the sustainability of the game. It will kill domestic football and create a boring spectacle skewed in favour of a Super League 'big 6
 
Kentonio said:
A few people keep repeating this about it being a media line that it's the death of football. No sorry, for many of us this would indeed be the deathknell of the game for us, at least as supporters of these teams.
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The irony of a Chelsea supporter writing this, not to mention the outcry from the UK of all places. I don't want to play the "blame game" but the EPL is THE league who super charged the commercialization of football and people constantly defended constructs like Chelsea, City etc. as well as the various club takeovers of rich owners. Just take a look at which league still spent insane money despite Corona going on....
Pandora's box has long been opened, so at least noone should act ignorant and just look at what they have done and admit their own role in all of this.
If THIS is the deathknell for some it only shows a certain amount of ignorance and how many football fans in other european countries or around the world ALREADY felt.
 
We can all say we won't watch but it's football. C'mon which one of you weak ass football slave will be strong enough to resist ? Curiosity will get the best of most of you (myself included)
 
i wonder if this will bring a rise of nationalism and mild support for the other clubs from own country within the league. example supporters of milan, also supporting juventus in the league. Once a club from a country establishes to be more dominant, then the entire country will start supporting that club.
 
There's a Simpsons reference from one of the Halloween specials that says just don't look. Someone hashtag that#
 
SwedishFish said:
:lol:

You know that he's a tory right? Money before anything.
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I just have a feeling he’s not getting much money from a ESL anyway so why not? The point is that he’s unpredictable and that’s good in that situation.
 
Hey- what makes you think that all the games will actually be played in Europe ?

The Super League final could be played in New York, Miami or Beijing
 
Powderfinger said:
Well said.

The other obvious point is that league games being “meaningless” if you weren’t in the title chase or threatened with relegation is...how football worked for a very very long time. And yet players still played hard, fans enjoyed the sport, and the sky didn’t fall.
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I've been trying to say this all night! Why do players bother for Southampton? Sheffield United? Birmingham City? Preston North End?

It's such arrogant elitism dressed up as concern for the other clubs. Rio Ferdinand doesn't give a shit if Southampton never qualify for the champions league. Neither do a vast majority of United fans. Or Arsenal fans.

In fact, they are pissed off when a club dares break the status quo. How much have United fans moaned about city? It's damn near impossible for a club not in or around the top 6 to break into it. The odd club have managed it but they've generally received better investment than most other clubs in the league still. They've had to buy their way up generally. Obviously exceptions exist but that's why Leicester winning the league was such a huge fecking deal. Because it was ridiculous and happens once in decades.

t's incredibly patronising of fans to say 'there there Southampton fans, we are happy because you can dream of being in the champions league but we're pretty safe in knowing that you won't actually do it consistently, you aren't a threat so you can dream' and now prop up fans of these clubs as the reason this is a terrible idea.

There are reasons this might be awful, I'm not buying that they include Sky being concerned for the likes of Burnley not being able to qualify for this new competition. Note - this doesn't mean they can't qualify for the champions league or europa. Those still exist as far as I'm aware.

So actually, teams who never qualified for a European competition may genuinely start doing that. Why shouldn't Southampton fans get to see their team play a European game, at home, on Wednesday night, against a team like Roma, Valencia, Lyon? Just because it's not as good as the champions league currently is? So what? The Europa isn't either but plenty of clubs and fans take that seriously. It's only the arrogance of the likes of United fans etc. Do they think Ajax fans wouldn't buzz their tits off if they won the Europa league because it's not as prestigious as the champions league?
 
Cantonagotmehere said:
I truly think we are underestimating what the UK government can do here, if the bulk of the population hates this idea.
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You're underestimating the fact that the tories and Johnson's goverment especially have been trying to Americanize the UK's political environment for years. This was probably part of the American trade deal.
 
VorZakone said:
So you have no problem with how arbitrary this is? 15 clubs decide in 2021 that they are exclusive, they get to form a Super League where they'll never relegate. The other clubs can go feck themselves.

Would you have agreed with a Super League in 1980 including Nottingham Forest who had won back-to-back European Cups?
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I do have a problem with the exclusivity. I don't like it. It's anti competition, it would create a whole lot of dead rubbers, and it could create a bubble where someone like us or Arsenal are really just shit and we just end up being a relegation fighting PL club still getting thrashed in the SL in a few years.

Also don't like that non-permanent winners would get way less of a prize money. Also, we don't yet know any criteria by which the rotating members will be both promoted and relegated. All of that is in flux.

That being said, if this is going to go ahead, it doesn't necessarily have to necessarily stay that way. Sure there are permanent members now, but over time if certain members hold the other clubs down they'll be cut off. Similarly if clubs outside the SL become really successful and possibly rise out of the shadows of the traditional big clubs and become "big" themselves, they'll be invited in. After all when the original European Cup started it was also quite exclusive. That changed over time, so this could too.

Overall, I'm not happy about this, but I think people are being a bit dramatic about the "end of football" thing. I think you could actually look forward to this massive restructuring of football as possibly an exciting thing.
 
Imagine if the PL creation happened the same way? 15 clubs agreed to form the FA Premier League, but they couldn't be relegated, even if they finished in the bottom three.
John_Jensen said:
Taken from James Corbett on twitter, who claims to have seen a copy of the "Super League Document".

  • The plan would guarantee massive income to a 15 club elite and cement financial gaps not only between those competing in the Super league and those not, but within it. The plan envisages one off payments of up to €350 million to the fifteen founder members, but only six clubs would receive the full amount with five of the initial members receiving just €100 or €112.5 million.

  • The 15 breakaway clubs have generously deigned to allow 5 merit based qualifiers each season. But the system is totally skewed against them. They have no say in running the Super League and are entirely excluded from a commercial pot worth 15% of income. Moreover, there is an 'equal' share of revenue that is not equal at all. The qualifiers are excluded from half of this pot of money (worth around €1.85 BILLION)

  • At the same time, the organisers have shown their contempt for rewarding sporting success. You get given a ton of money for playing (about €180m for the group stage), but prize money is quite small - worth perhaps €30m extra for winning it. Which is small change, really. If you win the Champions League, by contrast, you earn about €120million - or 300% more than just making the group stage

  • At the same time, if, say Leicester or Everton, were to qualify and actually win it - despite everything being skewed against them - they would earn around half the amount Barca or Real would be guaranteed JUST FOR COMPETING IN THE GROUP STAGE. Essentially this has been devised by a cabal of greedy, stupid and desperate individuals who care nothing about football, competitiveness or the sustainability of the game. It will kill domestic football and create a boring spectacle skewed in favour of a Super League 'big 6
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:lol: It's basically the Cosa Nostra.
 
newsdevil said:
Hey- what makes you think that all the games will actually be played in Europe ?

The Super League final could be played in New York, Miami or Beijing
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It could be played on an aircraft carrier out in the Pacific Ocean.
 
it,s bad because if six clubs thrown out then premier league is de-valued .
if the six not thrown out then they hoover up all the players ; no squad restrictions for this competition.
the money backers prepared to lose money early on then in 2 or 3 years time subs will creep up and us fuddies will be told to clear off if we don't like it
 
John_Jensen said:
Taken from James Corbett on twitter, who claims to have seen a copy of the "Super League Document".

  • The plan would guarantee massive income to a 15 club elite and cement financial gaps not only between those competing in the Super league and those not, but within it. The plan envisages one off payments of up to €350 million to the fifteen founder members, but only six clubs would receive the full amount with five of the initial members receiving just €100 or €112.5 million.

  • The 15 breakaway clubs have generously deigned to allow 5 merit based qualifiers each season. But the system is totally skewed against them. They have no say in running the Super League and are entirely excluded from a commercial pot worth 15% of income. Moreover, there is an 'equal' share of revenue that is not equal at all. The qualifiers are excluded from half of this pot of money (worth around €1.85 BILLION)

  • At the same time, the organisers have shown their contempt for rewarding sporting success. You get given a ton of money for playing (about €180m for the group stage), but prize money is quite small - worth perhaps €30m extra for winning it. Which is small change, really. If you win the Champions League, by contrast, you earn about €120million - or 300% more than just making the group stage

  • At the same time, if, say Leicester or Everton, were to qualify and actually win it - despite everything being skewed against them - they would earn around half the amount Barca or Real would be guaranteed JUST FOR COMPETING IN THE GROUP STAGE. Essentially this has been devised by a cabal of greedy, stupid and desperate individuals who care nothing about football, competitiveness or the sustainability of the game. It will kill domestic football and create a boring spectacle skewed in favour of a Super League 'big 6
Click to expand...

Jesus
 
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