Erik ten Hag vs Sancho | Sancho back in full training

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Oranges038 said:
I think he was right to answer the question as he did. The player is not meeting the standards expected, other players are and on that basis he chose not select him. He's also right to remove him from first team training.

Why should he lie? Why not just be blunt and honest? If the player cannot accept that he's not doing enough while being paid extremely well, then he needs to take a long hard look at himself, instead of going on twitter to have a whinge.

The one in the wrong here is Sancho, not repaying the time and effort the manager and club have given him to get himself sorted, not putting in the effort and performances required and then putting out a cry baby tweet when someone points out the obvious to him, he needs to grow up.
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You could easily make the argument that talking about Sancho's lack of training comitment after losing 3-1, in large part because of inefficiency in the final third, is throwing the player under the bus to deflect attention from yourself.

The likeliest answer is, he made a mistake. He doesn't have experience with the scrutiny of this media, he doesn't understand how to get the most out of Sancho, and he just blurted out something without thinking it through. He wouldn't be the first or the last manager to do that. The questions surrounding other players hasn't exactly been perfectly handled every time either - so he has some history with this.

If he doesn't want Sancho in the squad, then fine, but just sell the man and bring in some new players - don't label him a bad trainer and sink his value. We have enough problems with selling players as it is, we don't need the manager adding to that.
 
norm87cro said:
You cant can you mate? Saf won the CWC beating Bayern and Real on the way with Aberdeen and ETH got a much richer and influential Ajax playing fancy football and reaching the SF of the CL
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So you don't think SAF was strict when he arrived at Aberdeen then? Read up, you're in for a shock. If you can't see the trend that strictness and discipline was the foundations to SAF's success, and EtH is obviously of the same mould, then I can't help you.

I can't see why you have this connection that strictness can only come after trophies, it's very odd.

frostbite said:
Nope, SAF did not do that in public.
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Do what?
 
Oranges038 said:
I think he was right to answer the question as he did. The player is not meeting the standards expected, other players are and on that basis he chose not select him. He's also right to remove him from first team training.

Why should he lie? Why not just be blunt and honest? If the player cannot accept that he's not doing enough while being paid extremely well, then he needs to take a long hard look at himself, instead of going on twitter to have a whinge.

The one in the wrong here is Sancho, not repaying the time and effort the manager and club have given him to get himself sorted, not putting in the effort and performances required and then putting out a cry baby tweet when someone points out the obvious to him, he needs to grow up.
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Sancho is not seeing it this way and has decided to make his view public as well. The only result is the negativity surrounding the club. The actual issue has only worsened. All the people supporting what EtH has done is this case are not seeing the negative repercussions this is going to cause to our club.
 
Based on what happened last season the smart move would have been to sell him this past summer. Sancho's actions last season showed he was not a strong person and playing football for a living is not for the weak. There was always a good chance there would be further problems.

I'm pretty sure SAF would have shipped him out and not thought twice about it.
 
I really don't get all the drama around this, Ten Hag was asked a question and answered completely reasonably, especially when considering the special measures he has already taken for the player. Sancho responded like an idiot but he is probably in a bit of a terrible place mentally considering senior football seemed pretty easy for him up until coming to Utd. He either apologises and knuckles down for a second chance or he doesn't and he is done here.

If he does take it as a wake up call it may be good as he is very talented so we may get something like the player we hoped for, if he doesn't then it just proves he is one in a long line of incorrect signings and we don't lose much from the actual team based on whats been offered so far.
 
astracrazy said:
So you don't think SAF was strict when he arrived at Aberdeen then? Read up, you're in for a shock. If you can't see the trend that strictness and discipline was the foundations to SAF's success, and EtH is obviously of the same mould, then I can't help you.

I can't see why you have this connection that strictness can only come after trophies, it's very odd.
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But this is not what we are discussing. ETH can be strict. SAF was strict. But SAF was not telling the press about who is lazy and who is drinking.
 
Laurencio said:
You could easily make the argument that talking about Sancho's lack of training comitment after losing 3-1, in large part because of inefficiency in the final third, is throwing the player under the bus to deflect attention from yourself.

The likeliest answer is, he made a mistake. He doesn't have experience with the scrutiny of this media, he doesn't understand how to get the most out of Sancho, and he just blurted out something without thinking it through. He wouldn't be the first or the last manager to do that. The questions surrounding other players hasn't exactly been perfectly handled every time either - so he has some history with this.

If he doesn't want Sancho in the squad, then fine, but just sell the man and bring in some new players - don't label him a bad trainer and sink his value. We have enough problems with selling players as it is, we don't need the manager adding to that.
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Mark Ogden shot that theory down during the week after the match. He claimed reporters who had asked during the match, where was Sancho, were told by Utd press that ETH would address that in the post game interview. Seems like this was a premediated move by ETH.
 
Rossa said:
What do you mean? Implied in every contract, you have to be prepared for work. Coming to work with a hangover will not be tolerated many places, for instance. Therefore, it is not unheard of that athletes have strict rules when it comes to drinking.

Apparantly, Ferguson had a no-drink rule when in training - so that made drinking quite prohibitive as a general rule. Now, Sancho had a lengthy leave so he was entitled to do as he pleased, but considering the effect of alcohol and jetlag, it was definitely not a wise thing to do. It wasn't wrong by law or stature or even norms, but it was unwise.
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What are you on about? Everything that a player can and can't do will be in their contracts. If you don't follow social media you wouldn't even know Sancho was out to New York. I can't for the life of me understand why people pry what others do in their personal life in their personal time. If Sancho turned up drunk to the training, I'm sure that will be dealt with accordingly.
 
frostbite said:
But this is not what we are discussing. ETH can be strict. SAF was strict. But SAF was not telling the press about who is lazy and who is drinking.
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He was just physically and verbally assaulting them in the changing rooms instead. For all the world to know.

See how easy it is to go down this road?

Yet Ten Hag points out that a player has to do more in training and people are pissing their knickers. It’s pathetic.
 
frostbite said:
But this is not what we are discussing. ETH can be strict. SAF was strict. But SAF was not telling the press about who is lazy and who is drinking.
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SAF nearly blinded Beckham but I guess you’re not ready for that conversation
 
redIndianDevil said:
Who asked all this? The club doesn't have power to dictate what players can or can't do in their off time. I'm pretty sure all of this down in their contracts.
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Probably nothing about going on a trip to US, but professionals aren’t allowed to do things like skiing and other potentially dangerous sports, so to a certain extent the club can dictate what happens in free time.
 
redIndianDevil said:
Sancho is not seeing it this way and has decided to make his view public as well. The only result is the negativity surrounding the club. The actual issue has only worsened. All the people supporting what EtH has done is this case are not seeing the negative repercussions this is going to cause to our club.
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Anyone who has watched him play, can see clearly the lack of effort and desire on the pitch.
If he's like that in a game, what's he like in training? He hasn't got a leg to stand on.

He only has himself to blame.
 
redIndianDevil said:
Sancho is not seeing it this way and has decided to make his view public as well. The only result is the negativity surrounding the club. The actual issue has only worsened. All the people supporting what EtH has done is this case are not seeing the negative repercussions this is going to cause to our club.
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Ten Hag can’t control what players do or say on social media.

Sancho - or anybody for that matter - could have just as easily come out and complained on Twitter about something else instead.

Maguire could have easily posted something similar back in the summer when stripped of the captaincy. He didn’t, because in spite of all the shit he gets he isn’t a complete plank like Sancho seems to be.

Players need to take more accountability for acting like wankers, and supporters would do well not to justify when they do.
 
saik said:
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So now he is telling everyone in public that Ole was not good at his job! This is probably true, too, but again this is a mistake by ETH. I don't think it is a good idea to tell everyone about it. In my opinion, all these are bad mistakes. There is no reason to tell the public that so many others are useless. Do your work internally and let the results speak for you. Be strict internally, but there is no reason to tell everyone about it.

Usually, it is managers who feel they are already failing, that go to the public and blame everyone else.
 
saik said:
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It's minor things, but this is so important. One tweet - Team inherited had no good culture. In other words a good culture hadn't been established. Next tweet, it was a no-good culture. Meaning there was a culture of no-goods which has much worse connotations. It's so so important this language and you would hope journalists of all people would understand the importance of it. Maybe they do and are just trying to make things look worse, it was luckhurst after all, but god it's annoying to deliberately or even accidentally misquote like that.
 
frostbite said:
But this is not what we are discussing. ETH can be strict. SAF was strict. But SAF was not telling the press about who is lazy and who is drinking.
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Sir Alex criticised Nani for not following instructions and trying to take on players too often and Rooney for being unfit both publicly from memory.
 
bstb3 said:
It's minor things, but this is so important. One tweet - Team inherited had no good culture. In other words a good culture hadn't been established. Next tweet, it was a no-good culture. Meaning there was a culture of no-goods which has much worse connotations. It's so so important this language and you would hope journalists of all people would understand the importance of it. Maybe they do and are just trying to make things look worse, it was luckhurst after all, but god it's annoying to deliberately or even accidentally misquote like that.
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They all do it deliberately.
 
frostbite said:
But this is not what we are discussing. ETH can be strict. SAF was strict. But SAF was not telling the press about who is lazy and who is drinking.
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His Aberdeen interview post cup win was pretty close to be fair. He has called lots of players in public, normally when the end was close - so not that different.
 
redIndianDevil said:
Just to be clear, I'm not siding with Sancho at all. He has been average as feck. My only point is why EtH has made it a public mess? Why can't he have handled this professionally in-house?
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By every report ETH tried several methods to handle this in-house. He gave him 3 months away last season, when our squad was stretched thin during the busiest time of the season with matches coming every 3-4 days, just to get his mind and body right. He also reportedly started giving him a schedule which was an hour earlier than the rest of the squad which had initial success, before Sancho apparently started falling back into his usual pattern of tardiness. None of this has been refuted with any specificity by Sancho, just some cryptic statements about being a scapegoat and double standards, which seem quite obviously untrue when we've seen Rashford and Garnacho be punished for failing to meet the standard in these areas.

You are taking this comment and assuming ETH hasn't attempted a number of different methods behind the scenes. You also claim you're not siding with Sancho while viewing it in the most favorable way towards him, and most negative way towards ETH while also equivocating this with Mourinho and his head-to-heads with Shaw, Pogba, Martial, which were all much more nasty in the actual substance of his words than anything ETH has said. This is not to even get into how much more leeway ETH has initially given Sancho to get himself fit and firing than Mourinho ever offered those players, and in Pogba's case specifically, somebody who was routinely fit and decisive for him on the pitch.

At some point, if all other methods have been exhausted, then maybe you try a public rebuke to elicit a reaction. In this case the rebuke was relatively mild, even if it did not paint Sancho in the greatest light. Instead of responding in any way that could remotely be considered positive, or even apologize to the manager when afforded the opportunity Sancho has thrown a strop and shown exactly who he is.

Also, it's laughable to think this incident has killed his re-sale value more than his disinterested, unimpressive performances over 2 plus seasons at United. The reason his re-sale value is garbage is due to his own poor performance levels in addition to the ridiculous wages he's on which he has come nowhere near justifying, not because ETH and him are having a public dispute.

Finally, if we're worried about squad harmony, reporting has suggested teammates have been left unimpressed with his levels in training also. They also would be aware of the issues ongoing between the player and the manager. Is it better for the squad to leave Sancho out altogether for the time being, or to bring back a player who isn't providing the subsequent level in training, let alone matches, or bring him back into the mix? I don't think it's as clear cut either way, because even if he was back in training there would be a lot of media focus and scrutiny on him, his relationship with ETH, and ultimately how he's used on match day. Removing him from the equation makes it very straightforward for the manager when asked, and gives the squad clarity on the situation. That seems better to me in this situation.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Sir Alex criticised Nani for not following instructions and trying to take on players too often and Rooney for being unfit both publicly from memory.
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But that was after he won a lot. Who did he criticize in public during his first 10 years about heavy drinking or being lazy?
 
astracrazy said:
His Aberdeen interview post cup win was pretty close to be fair. He has called lots of players in public, normally when the end was close - so not that different.
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Not really, you are making things up. Who did he criticize in public about drinking in his first 10 years? Not after they were sold, before they were sold.
 
astracrazy said:
So you don't think SAF was strict when he arrived at Aberdeen then? Read up, you're in for a shock. If you can't see the trend that strictness and discipline was the foundations to SAF's success, and EtH is obviously of the same mould, then I can't help you.

I can't see why you have this connection that strictness can only come after trophies, it's very odd.



Do what?
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Because ETH just simply isn't SAF and has charisma of a drying wall. But hey I actually made an argument you can't counter and suddenly Im odd
 
frostbite said:
So now he is telling everyone in public that Ole was not good at his job! This is probably true, too, but again this is a mistake by ETH. I don't think it is a good idea to tell everyone about it. In my opinion, all these are bad mistakes. There is no reason to tell the public that so many others are useless. Do your work internally and let the results speak for you. Be strict internally, but there is no reason to tell everyone about it.

Usually, it is managers who feel they are already failing, that go to the public and blame everyone else.
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It's not just him though. If the club asked him to be strict that seems to imply that even the club thought there were no standards. And I guess every fan can see our standards have fallen so low that we now celebrate getting top 4. He is just trying to improve on that. I don't see anything wrong with it.

And he has done his work internally last season. A cup win, a final, top 3 finish, quarterfinal in Europa league which we were well on our way to winning that tie until De Gea and Maguire both decided to implode(which he is trying to improve as well seeing that De Gea is gone and Maguire would have been as well if not for his payoff). He is trying to improve upon these standards and underperformers and those who aren't good enough will leave.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
SAF nearly blinded Beckham but I guess you’re not ready for that conversation
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He did not do that in public. How hard is it to understand that I criticize ETH for telling the press about it? SAF did not go to the press at that time blaming Beckham about anything, he just sold him to Real.
 
frostbite said:
But that was after he won a lot. Who did he criticize in public during his first 10 years about heavy drinking or being lazy?
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I can't be bothered to look into your weird and irrelevant parameters. Sir Alex Ferguson publicly criticised players, Jose Mourinho publicly criticised players, Pep Guardiola publicly criticised players, Conte publicly criticised players nearly all top managers have. If Ten Hag felt the need to do so for a player he has clearly bent over backwards for and yet still continued to under perform then that is just dandy for me.
 
frostbite said:
So now he is telling everyone in public that Ole was not good at his job! This is probably true, too, but again this is a mistake by ETH. I don't think it is a good idea to tell everyone about it. In my opinion, all these are bad mistakes. There is no reason to tell the public that so many others are useless. Do your work internally and let the results speak for you. Be strict internally, but there is no reason to tell everyone about it.

Usually, it is managers who feel they are already failing, that go to the public and blame everyone else.
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Where does he say Ole wasn't good at his job? Do you work for the press or something? You should because you are good at twisting quotes to make a narrative.

And you'd have to be pretty stupid if you couldn't see there was no discipline or good culture under Ole. Hardly telling us what we didn't know. Unless of cause you were and Ole fanboy...
 
frostbite said:
Not really, you are making things up. Who did he criticize in public about drinking in his first 10 years? Not after they were sold, before they were sold.
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Who has Ten Hag accused of drinking?

Your posts are funny. Are you reading them back before you hit send?
 
saik said:
It's not just him though. If the club asked him to be strict that seems to imply that even the club thought there were no standards. And I guess every fan can see our standards have fallen so low that we now celebrate getting top 4. He is just trying to improve on that. I don't see anything wrong with it.

And he has done his work internally last season. A cup win, a final, top 3 finish, quarterfinal in Europa league which we were well on our way to winning that tie until De Gea and Maguire both decided to implode(which he is trying to improve as well seeing that De Gea is gone and Maguire would have been as well if not for his payoff). He is trying to improve upon these standards and underperformers and those who aren't good enough will leave.
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The club may have asked him to be strict.

The club did not tell the press that asked him to be strict.
 
redIndianDevil said:
What are you on about? Everything that a player can and can't do will be in their contracts. If you don't follow social media you wouldn't even know Sancho was out to New York. I can't for the life of me understand why people pry what others do in their personal life in their personal time. If Sancho turned up drunk to the training, I'm sure that will be dealt with accordingly.
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I am on about what is wise to do and what is not. Alcohol impairs your efforts on the pitch and in training. Sancho was called out for being a poor trainer. Then he proceeds to publish an image of himself at a party in New York. Jetlag and partying will do him no favours trying to win back game time or improve performances.

It’s most likely not contractually wrong, but it’s unwise. Or do you think it was wiser than him hitting the gym and doing what Pellistri did?
 
saik said:
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Do wonder if the refused to mention him by name line in sensationalised as managers will regularly respond to questions about players without saying their name. Unsurprisingly, ETH hasn't given us any details but that's in line with his press conferences in general.
 
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