HookedOnAPhelan
Full Member
Okay.Just try and imagine if you can, all the many thousands of Liverpool fans thinking/saying this exact same shite, when Rodgers was up for the sack.
Okay.Just try and imagine if you can, all the many thousands of Liverpool fans thinking/saying this exact same shite, when Rodgers was up for the sack.
Why do anything at all?If that’s your view just give up watching football entirely.What’s the point.
So, no?Put in context, we're the bookies and pundits joint favourites to win the entire competition. But if ETH stays long enough, form and eyes tell us we'll finish mid-table at best, and we'll lose in the playoff or ro16 game to another Copenhagen or Galatasaray-level side.
That's what happens when you back a loser.
Why am I living in denial for pointing out the underlying metrics have improved?Because I’m quite sick of people living in denial at this point, or worse being accepting of going toe to toe with average Dutch league sides or mid table PL teams.
It’s fine, keep backing him and then raise your hand up months from now and admit defeat if that’s what you wish to do. But I’m not going to pretend to take any data set seriously that involves only a month of matches, especially because in spite of it there are still clear issues with how he approaches games and managing them during the 90 minutes.
I’m quite tired of being a comedy club for a decade plus now, slightly improving performances while still getting poor results in a 3rd year of management, while he’s been backed better than any manager we’ve had post SAF, isn’t good enough
The problem is your suggestion that they’re underlying metrics, that suggests they’re the foundations of winning football matches. We could camp in our own half and have 90% possession, it doesn’t mean we’re winning games.Why am I living in denial for pointing out the underlying metrics have improved?
I'm on board for this.So you're saying everyone should just resign themselves to the idea that we'll be shit regardless of who the manager is and just abandon all hope of United ever being a force again?
That's the spirit.
Sorry do you think underlying metrics matter or not, I don’t follow? The article is pretty detailed, not sure how you could look at it and think we’ve duped the stats.The problem is your suggestion that they’re underlying metrics, that suggests they’re the foundations of winning football matches. We could camp in our own half and have 90% possession, it doesn’t mean we’re winning games.
Yes, exactly this.
Brilliant, well done.
I'm on board for this.
Have no expectations. Have no disappointments.
It's minimalism for the mind.
Some of you guys are funny man. You want him gone after 50 games of shite but then back him after 3 more games because it isn’t enough? but after 7 games he can get to feck. Then judging him on every stat except points, wins and goals scored. My friend, let’s sit down and have a chat about this sport called football and what separates good teams from bad ones.
Sorry do you think underlying metrics matter or not, I don’t follow? The article is pretty detailed, not sure how you could look at it and think we’ve duped the stats.
I agree re possession by the way, but I’m not arguing possession = good.
We should be reaching the quarters of the CL, nevermind the Europa league.So, no?
Re favourites, I would hope we get QF minimum and would like to think it’s something we have a good shot at winning.
Im talking about the whole article and how on earth would they get more data from the current season? I’ll wait a while for an answer here I suppose.
It says "Here, Ten Hag's side would sit just three points adrift from table-topping local rivals Manchester City."
Just because someone somewhere took a sample size of 5 games and convinced you that our performances have been within 3 points of Man City's doesn't mean the article is "pretty detailed".
Temper those expectations- we haven’t made a QF in the CL since 18/19 and that was when we smash and grabbed PSG and then got thumped by Barca. The time before that was 10 years ago.We should be reaching the quarters of the CL, nevermind the Europa league.
The fact you set the bar so low shows you have little faith in Ten Hag. But you can't definitively say that we should be winning the EL with ease considering how strong the squad is, because you know we won't, and that'd mean you wouldn't be able to defend your man.
Lowering expectations to unreasonable levels, ignoring results, cherry picking stats, and making excuses is all anyone resorts to when trying to argue his case.
Last season it was injuries, and now that excuse is gone it's xG and other bullshit
Well, yeah you should. Till more than half of the season is done, if you want to compare season trajectories.Im talking about the whole article and how on earth would they get more data from the current season? I’ll wait a while for an answer here I suppose.
Well, yeah you should. Till more than half of the season is done, if you want to compare season trajectories.
Like the article writer should have.
But they've got bills to pay and a job to do, so a half-baked article would have to do for now.
We were never expected to challenge for the league, we are only 4 points off the top four, and we have played a single game in a new EL format where the majority of teams go through. Results wise nothing is lost yet. It's just that the play gives no confidence that results will improve. But when have we ever sacked a manager based on how the play looks? Unfortunately, I think we need to watch a lot of shite, before that decision is taken.
Which is exactly why the overreaction on here is comical. It’s 5 games in.Well, yeah you should. Till more than half of the season is done, if you want to compare season trajectories.
Like the article writer should have.
But they've got bills to pay and a job to do, so a half-baked article would have to do for now.
I agree with you. I'm just commenting on what I think will happen, not what would happen if it was my decision.Sure, but we've all seen this movie and know how it ends. Our form both in the league and in Europe going back to last year is woeful and there is no sign of that changing. We have the sample size to draw conclusions. This year, Liverpool is the only real side we've had to face, and they battered us once again. ETH won't last past Christmas, so for me, I'd rather just end it now while, as you point out, there is a possibility to salvage something. I don't think that opportunity will exist if the club waits until the holidays to take action.
That's not how anything works. Were you equally giddy that we were on track for a 114 pt season after GW1?Which is exactly why the overreaction on here is comical. It’s 5 games in.
But re data, you use what you can. I take it from your last paragraph you don’t like the fact it shows we’ve improved, that’s fine, we will wait and see how it develops.
Link the article?That's not how anything works. Were you equally giddy that we were on track for a 114 pt season after GW1?
Weak.Sure.
38*3=114.
"But re data, you use what you can. "Weak.
Great quote, not like we were discussing an article or anything like that. Guess we were just hashing it out about data and it’s uses."But re data, you use what you can. "
We've only outplayed a team that's 7th in league 1,Temper those expectations- we haven’t made a QF in the CL since 18/19 and that was when we smash and grabbed PSG and then got thumped by Barca. The time before that was 10 years ago.
We are not a club used to being in the latter stages of the CL. Is my bar low - I expect 4/5th place and good performances in FA cup + EL?
Again, why are people talking about excuses. I’m pointing out the fact that we have played better, it’s a shame the results haven’t come but that will ultimately be what decides ETH’s fate. My point is that if you keep outplaying the opposition in important metrics, it stands to reason you will win more games over the course of the season. So far I’d say we have lost 1 we deserved, 1 that could have gone either way and then the draw with Palace was very frustrating but we played well enough to win comfortably.
Wasn’t Ruud brought in to coach the attackers? And some on here see him as the next interim boss if EtH is fired. We should have bought a natural goal scorer. We’ve basically got Rashford and kids up front, together with a mis-firing Bruno.The amount of chances we just don’t put away is scandalous really, I feel a bit sorry for him, sometimes it’s harder to miss but we find a way, I’m sure he’s not coaching that..
Rashfords form was helping Ole look much better than he was, if we had him firing again the pressure would be nowhere near as intense, and Bruno has now randomly decided that he can’t pass, create or shoot.. it’s a tough time for the team really, we’re desperate for someone in front of goal to find form
That’s not true though. We’ve outplayed by basically every metric all but Brighton and Pool. It’s a small sample size but Pool are a better team than us and Brighton away was pretty tight. Even the dross last night we were comfortably better over the 90mins.We've only outplayed a team that's 7th in league 1,
45 minutes against a team bottom of the Premier League,
and a team that's 7th in the Dutch league. Let's not get carried away now.
He won’t be here in 4 years!As per Berrada’s comments, he still has just under 4 years to deliver the title.
Rasmus is the same age as Bellingham, I don't see anyone excusing him for anything because he is a just a "kid"Wasn’t Ruud brought in to coach the attackers? And some on here see him as the next interim boss if EtH is fired. We should have bought a natural goal scorer. We’ve basically got Rashford and kids up front, together with a mis-firing Bruno.
But Rasmus is not a natural proven goal scorer - was the point.Rasmus is the same age as Bellingham, I don't see anyone excusing him for anything because he is a just a "kid"
Better but still shit which is the problemThat’s not true though. We’ve outplayed by basically every metric all but Brighton and Pool. It’s a small sample size but Pool are a better team than us and Brighton away was pretty tight. Even the dross last night we were comfortably better over the 90mins.
That's what I'm saying. We have outplayed rubbish teams. Southampton, Barnsley, Twente and Palace for 45 minutes. Let's see how good we are against a team with a remotely decent midfield, and then talk about metrics.That’s not true though. We’ve outplayed by basically every metric all but Brighton and Pool. It’s a small sample size but Pool are a better team than us and Brighton away was pretty tight. Even the dross last night we were comfortably better over the 90mins.
I remember the old LVG days when we passed , passed , passed .. were good in every metric and get 1-0 loss or 1-1 draw against Swansea ..That's what I'm saying. We have outplayed rubbish teams. Southampton, Barnsley, Twente and Palace for 45 minutes. Let's see how good we are against a team with a remotely decent midfield, and then talk about metrics.
Ok but "kids" has nothing to do with it, Owen Rooney Benzema Aguero Tevez for example were all banging them in at 21.But Rasmus is not a natural proven goal scorer - was the point.
The overreaction is not because of the 5 games but, 5 shite games coming after our worse season ever!Which is exactly why the overreaction on here is comical. It’s 5 games in.
But re data, you use what you can. I take it from your last paragraph you don’t like the fact it shows we’ve improved, that’s fine, we will wait and see how it develops.
It’s not even like we’ve been amazing in these 5 games or anything. We were OK against Fulham and Southampton, decent in patches against Brighton and Palace but ultimately came out with underwhelming scorelines anyway, embarrassing against Liverpool. We may brag about having high xG but games like v Liverpool add up to that as we contributed almost 1.5 xG there but all of it came after the game was over and they didn’t care much. Remove that from the equation (which would have been the case had we not allowed them to score 3 before second half barely began - at that point our xG was literally nothing) and we would be down the list already.Not sure why it's so hard for him to understand. Any data set of 5 games should be disregarded or heavily scrutinized at a bare minimum. Trying to extrapolate would have everyone thinking every half decent forward going through purple patch is world class (hello 22/23 Rashford)
This is his 3rd season now. Besides all the nice looking stats, where I'll agree have improved, his biggest problem is that he fails to find goals in the team.It’s interesting that last year seemed to be a tactical failure while this season seems to be individuals letting the team down. Both attacking and defensive stats are improved but ultimately we are relying on inconsistent players.
Now for what it’s worth if this was ETH’a first season I think you look at performances and the underlying stats and you say we’ve been a bit unlucky. Compare that to last year where even when we won we seemed to be the team getting away with things.
The problem is though that even if the model says we are underachieving our xG or whatever that’s likely to be ongoing. Our forwards are likely to consistently under-perform xG because there isn’t a reliable goalscorer amongst them. Any one of them could have a purple patch but you wouldn’t bet on it.
All we can do is hope that we keep creating lots of chances because we need to for this group to score goals. We also need to hope that we can add some more set piece goals because we need as many from all sources as we can get.