Erik ten Hag | 2024/25

Erik ten Hag

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2 man midfield said:
One thing I don’t get is how we’ve managed to take players who are supposedly very good on the ball (half of them came up through the Ajax academy after all) and turn them into quivering wrecks who can’t get rid of it quick enough.

Casemiro has 5 champions leagues. But yesterday he had the composure of a crack addict. This isn’t just to do with his legs going.

Onana was signed solely because of his distribution, yet all he does is hoof it to nobody just as De Gea did. The only difference is Onana can’t save any shots, (3 shots, 3 goals yesterday) and frequently stands in places that make scoring goals easier. At least when Dave dropped his clangers like Onana in the FA cup final, we hadn’t paid £50m to watch him do it.

The midfield is awful. We’ve spent 600m in 2 years, and we still finished the game with a midfield made up of an 18 year old and a 20 year old. Not because of injuries, but because they’re literally better options than some of the players that made up huge chunks of that outlay.

All in all it doesn’t reflect well on the manager. You can tell with multiple players their confidence is on the floor. He keeps picking the same players to do the same jobs, and when it doesn’t work, he does the same thing again the week after.
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Yeppers!.

Even someone who we all thought was stable and absolved from criticism in Martinez now seems to have gone to shit.

This football isn't working, this system isn't working and I'm not sure there is a way forward until ETH is sacked.
 
SteveCoppellFan said:
I think its fair to say the support for ETH is waning somewhat.

A lot of us ( including me ) got carried away with the euphoria of the FA Cup win and ignored the complete dross served up over the season.

I am quite happy to give him a couple more months but i think he is incapable of turning things around, I hope I am wrong.

His 2 trophies response to anything remotely resembling criticism is already getting a little old.
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I was reserving judgement for basically the entire season as the injury crisis was unlike anything I’d seen in 20 odd years watching us. You might argue he should’ve abandoned his style, made us compact and ground out a top 4 place, but I was willing to see if there was a coach worth persevering for on the other side of it.

We’re 3 games in, most of those players are back (albeit some not fit or at their best - eg Martínez) and yet it seems to be more of the same. I’m still behind Ten Hag just about, but he’d better get a tune out of these lot fast or I think by Christmas he’s a goner. I just hope Southgate gets a job before then.
 
SungSam7 said:
I voted today, the % of not wanting him sacked was below 10%, some how he's gained 5% in the space of 6 hours.

He's woeful, has to go.
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It has been the case since last season. The more time passes between the games the higher support he gets. It will hit 20% by the time we play Southampton and will be in 40s if we beat them.
 
Judas said:
I wouldn't even except a string of scrappy shite 1-0 wins anymore, we've watched pure crap for far too long. Winning ugly would prove very little at this point. Lowering the standards about goal difference not mattering is bonkers. I want to be entertained.
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It has nothing to do with lowering standards. Points matter, goal difference doesn't (90% of the time). It's annoying that we never hammer someone but are so prone to a walloping ourselves, but grinding out 1-0s while getting twatted by City happened to the big man himself. We just have neither going for us, not performance, not results, not entertainment
 
It's clearly too telegraphed and readable by the opposition. Man City's moves are probably obvious and telegraphed but they have the players like Rodri and De Bruyne in midfield who can still pull it off regardless.

Ten Hag took alot of risk yesterday trying to prove a point, however he trusted Casemiro too much and it left us completely exposed. He flat out got it wrong and went too aggressive.

We were naive and got what we deserved yesterday. He better pull it off with Ugarte or he's done.
 
He has a pretty big army of fans who’d defend the situation regardless of how bad it gets. The “give him more time” argument can always be used in many ways - playing down how good our squad is (they’ll tell us it’s dreadful and ten Hag is actually overachieving), change of ownership (new structure presumably requires a few seasons for improvements on the pitch), losing to some teams isn’t actually bad (apparently we should be ok losing to Brighton), blaming only players instead of his tactics (it’s all due to Casemiro or Rashford) and no one else available on the market (as if plenty of novice managers in the league haven’t gotten their team playing well). One thing they can’t use is injuries as they did last season - but I’m sure someone will come along and say Mount would have made the difference.
 
He just has to get sacked asap.

This season can still be salvaged.

Honestly think he's one of the worst managers in the league the past 50 or so games. He's been that bad.
 
Salford_Red83 said:
Every time I open this thread up I'm amazed at how much support this guy still has.
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It’s absolutely mind boggling that this guy has any support at all. Mind boggling. Last season was our worst PL season in our history, and yet some people were bending over backwards to come up with every excuse in the book. Injuries being the most common. Yea, there were loads of injuries but the underlying data clearly showed that tactically we were set up in the equivalent of a shotgun in our own mouth type set up.

The new season has started and absolutely nothing about our approach has changed. There are just so many fundamental problems with how we use the ball when we have it, the movement of players, and the tactical positioning of nearly every player, that it beggars belief that anyone at all can think this man has even the faintest clue how to coach in the premier league.

It’s so bad, the set up, the resources at his disposal, the money spent, that I can confidently say - without any hyperbole - that pound for pound, he is the worst manager in the premier league. All 19 other managers would do better with this squad than he is. Some of them would do A LOT better. We are fundamentally not set up to be good at anything. We can’t defend, we can’t press properly, we can’t retain possession effectively, and we definitely have no idea at all how to attack. We are absolutely appalling from top to bottom. And in his third season at the club, it’s just beyond unacceptable; it’s downright disgraceful.

I would definitively rank Solksjaer as being a better manager than this clown. The ONLY thing he has going for him is the league cup win, and the FA cup win at the end of last season. But our league and European form, ever since the league cup win, has barely been above relegation standards. Over the last 18 months, he has a negative goal difference. Which is a stat that simply boggles the mind. It’s one thing to not be able to score because you have a defensive approach, it’s another when you can’t score despite over committing forward and leaking goals for fun at the back.

People keep pointing to the players over and over again, but their positions on the field, the organisation of the team, the patterns of play, are all on the manager, and they are all at all-time worst levels. He’s an absolute shambles and embarrassment of a manager. Literally (and I mean that in the correct dictionary definition) opposition fan I know is laughing and celebrating that we’ve kept him on. They all love playing United because not only do they expect to win, but they see the opportunity to rack up a cricket score.

Yesterday Liverpool won by 3, with absolute ease. And they let up way before the game ended. If they’d gone for the jugular all game, we’d have been on the receiving end of another 5, 6 or 7 goal mauling.

What we are currently witnessing in the dugout is an ineptitude of never before seen proportions, and there will be more humiliations on the horizon until he leaves. He’s the biggest fraud of a manager I think I ever ever seen. His tactics and instructions are amateurish, and that’s putting it kindly. He’s so far out of his depth, and so far up his own arse, that he’s a genuine danger to this club. Too inept and, dare I say it, stupid to be able to set up team up competently at this level, and too arrogant to recognise how wrong he is, nor take any accountability for it.

He has the conviction of Pep Guardiola, but the tactical and coaching expertise of Gregg Berhalter. Keeping him even a minute more is a minute too long. I cannot see any path to redemption unless someone from above forces him to play another way, and if you have to do that, then just get another coach in any way.

This would not be tolerated at any other elite club. I’ll give Ineos the benefit of the doubt because they have only truly been running things since the summer - with all their people in place - so would essentially be firing a coach three games into their tenure. But they can look back and see what happened last season, see the writing on the wall this season - because we are playing the exact same way - and get literally anyone else in.

My hope, and in the short term it’s my only hope - they have spent the tail end of last season, and the summer, putting several contingency plans in place so they are ready to move and bring a new coach in quickly. Either that or hand the reigns to RVN. Either will do. I don’t even need us to achieve great things this season under a caretaker or replacement, I just need us to reestablish a sense of orthodoxy into our approach and start getting the fundamentals right.

I can only imagine the players hate playing for Ten Hag. What player would want to play for a manager whose tactics and instructions essentially make them look like clowns. Yes, they are the ones often making mistakes, but when your coach is creating a system where you regularly receive the ball and have little to no reasonable passing options, you are on a hiding to nothing.

I can’t watch a Ten Hag coached United any longer, nor can I bear to hear him speak or read what he says. The things that come out of his mouth are so detached from the reality of the things we see on the field, and he is so sure of his suitability for the role, that I can only conclude he is completely delusional.

I would fecking LOVE for him to have to give a seminar on the detailed thinking behind his tactics and instructions, because for the life of me I see no sense nor reason to any of them. With the exception of one or two games, I have seen him out coached by every manager in the Premier League, several times over, in the last 18-19 months.

He is beyond clueless. He’s a dangerous and arrogant clown of the highest order.
 
Is this man seeing something we are missing? I can't defend the guy any more.
 
ETH won the FA cup after getting easy draws, fluking a basketball game against Liverpool and totally changing his tactics against Man City. The pragmatic approach in the final was a refreshing change and hinted at more to come this season.

After doing so well will the false nine and more compact midfield, what on earth possessed the guy to go back to a clearly flawed system against Liverpool yesterday? He is totally out of his depth and incredibly arrogant thinking his system is ever going to work with the players he has available
 
The Hilton said:
You seem to have misread my post about change for changes sake, which was that people in this thread calling to sack him with no idea as to what to next aren't being rational. Those saying "give it to Ruud" without any idea why that would be better are advocating for change for changes sake. At no point did I suggest that this would be the club's approach (not anymore anyway, under the previous regime the decision making was just as ill-thought-out).

I also haven't engaged in any baseless speculation. It's a matter of fact that the club haven't replaced Ten Hag yet. Whether or not they have someone lined up (if they're at all serious there should be multiple options lined up) is irrelevant to the fact that they haven't decided yet that any of those lined up will provide more benefit than sticking with the current coach right now. My personal expectation, and this bit is now speculation, is that he'll be replaced at the end of the season barring a marked and prolonged improvement in our form.
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But that’s still not change for change sake. It’s change because our manager is a bit shit, and people would like to try someone else in the hope whoever it is is a bit less shit. It’s not like people are randomly calling for a change in manager despite things going swimmingly. People want change precisely because the status quo is not good enough.

You claimed that because they haven’t changed the manager yet “they don't believe there is an available alternative that will improve things for us”. That is baseless speculation because you have zero clue what they’re discussing and deciding behind the scenes. None of us do. They may well have already concluded that there are better people out there for the job, and are putting things in notion ready for when they make the move.

As for him lasting to the end of the season, that feels more like a fantasy than speculation at the moment. He won’t make it to Halloween at this rate.
 
Don't think I've ever seen that before, getting the dreaded 'vote of confidence' just 3 weeks in crikey...

I give him no more than 6 weeks now
 
Rasmus_9 said:
ETH won the FA cup after getting easy draws, fluking a basketball game against Liverpool and totally changing his tactics against Man City. The pragmatic approach in the final was a refreshing change and hinted at more to come this season.
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More shots on goal
Same number of shots on target
5 big chances to Liverpools 1
An xG (not my thing personally but tells a story) of 3.92 v Liverpools 2.12
Two of Liverpools goals took huge deflections

If you don’t rate Ten Hag, fine … but don’t rewrite that match.
 
simonhch said:
It’s absolutely mind boggling that this guy has any support at all. Mind boggling. Last season was our worst PL season in our history, and yet some people were bending over backwards to come up with every excuse in the book. Injuries being the most common. Yea, there were loads of injuries but the underlying data clearly showed that tactically we were set up in the equivalent of a shotgun in our own mouth type set up.

The new season has started and absolutely nothing about our approach has changed. There are just so many fundamental problems with how we use the ball when we have it, the movement of players, and the tactical positioning of nearly every player, that it beggars belief that anyone at all can think this man has even the faintest clue how to coach in the premier league.

It’s so bad, the set up, the resources at his disposal, the money spent, that I can confidently say - without any hyperbole - that pound for pound, he is the worst manager in the premier league. All 19 other managers would do better with this squad than he is. Some of them would do A LOT better. We are fundamentally not set up to be good at anything. We can’t defend, we can’t press properly, we can’t retain possession effectively, and we definitely have no idea at all how to attack. We are absolutely appalling from top to bottom. And in his third season at the club, it’s just beyond unacceptable; it’s downright disgraceful.

I would definitively rank Solksjaer as being a better manager than this clown. The ONLY thing he has going for him is the league cup win, and the FA cup win at the end of last season. But our league and European form, ever since the league cup win, has barely been above relegation standards. Over the last 18 months, he has a negative goal difference. Which is a stat that simply boggles the mind. It’s one thing to not be able to score because you have a defensive approach, it’s another when you can’t score despite over committing forward and leaking goals for fun at the back.

People keep pointing to the players over and over again, but their positions on the field, the organisation of the team, the patterns of play, are all on the manager, and they are all at all-time worst levels. He’s an absolute shambles and embarrassment of a manager. Literally (and I mean that in the correct dictionary definition) opposition fan I know is laughing and celebrating that we’ve kept him on. They all love playing United because not only do they expect to win, but they see the opportunity to rack up a cricket score.

Yesterday Liverpool won by 3, with absolute ease. And they let up way before the game ended. If they’d gone for the jugular all game, we’d have been on the receiving end of another 5, 6 or 7 goal mauling.

What we are currently witnessing in the dugout is an ineptitude of never before seen proportions, and there will be more humiliations on the horizon until he leaves. He’s the biggest fraud of a manager I think I ever ever seen. His tactics and instructions are amateurish, and that’s putting it kindly. He’s so far out of his depth, and so far up his own arse, that he’s a genuine danger to this club. Too inept and, dare I say it, stupid to be able to set up team up competently at this level, and too arrogant to recognise how wrong he is, nor take any accountability for it.

He has the conviction of Pep Guardiola, but the tactical and coaching expertise of Gregg Berhalter. Keeping him even a minute more is a minute too long. I cannot see any path to redemption unless someone from above forces him to play another way, and if you have to do that, then just get another coach in any way.

This would not be tolerated at any other elite club. I’ll give Ineos the benefit of the doubt because they have only truly been running things since the summer - with all their people in place - so would essentially be firing a coach three games into their tenure. But they can look back and see what happened last season, see the writing on the wall this season - because we are playing the exact same way - and get literally anyone else in.

My hope, and in the short term it’s my only hope - they have spent the tail end of last season, and the summer, putting several contingency plans in place so they are ready to move and bring a new coach in quickly. Either that or hand the reigns to RVN. Either will do. I don’t even need us to achieve great things this season under a caretaker or replacement, I just need us to reestablish a sense of orthodoxy into our approach and start getting the fundamentals right.

I can only imagine the players hate playing for Ten Hag. What player would want to play for a manager whose tactics and instructions essentially make them look like clowns. Yes, they are the ones often making mistakes, but when your coach is creating a system where you regularly receive the ball and have little to no reasonable passing options, you are on a hiding to nothing.

I can’t watch a Ten Hag coached United any longer, nor can I bear to hear him speak or read what he says. The things that come out of his mouth are so detached from the reality of the things we see on the field, and he is so sure of his suitability for the role, that I can only conclude he is completely delusional.

I would fecking LOVE for him to have to give a seminar on the detailed thinking behind his tactics and instructions, because for the life of me I see no sense nor reason to any of them. With the exception of one or two games, I have seen him out coached by every manager in the Premier League, several times over, in the last 18-19 months.

He is beyond clueless. He’s a dangerous and arrogant clown of the highest order.
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Well said.
 
Results will decide this.

Southampton could go either way.

Palace away was great last time.

Spurs and Villa round off 4 games where you can see us dropping points.

I'd love to be wrong but I find it hard to see something clicking.
 
VorZakone said:
Winning FA Cup final against City.
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Di Matteo didn’t even get this much credit for winning CL where he had to overcome a 3-1 deficit against Napoli, beat great Barcelona team and overcome Bayern at their own ground in the final.
 
saik said:
It was always a long shot that he would be sacked so soon. Those are just some standard statements put out to stop the negativity for a bit.
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Yeah, these are obviously generic, “template” responses from Berrada and Ashworth. They can’t say “we’ll sack
him if the performances don’t improve”, but it will inevitably rile up some fans.
 
Rojofiam said:
Yeah, these are obviously generic, “template” responses from Berrada and Ashworth. They can’t say “we’ll sack
him if the performances don’t improve”, but it will inevitably rile up some fans.
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I hope that your interpretations are correct.
 
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/ckg2pm22lz1o

Berrada :

"It was a decision taken prior to both of our arrivals, but we are very happy with it," said Berrada.

"Erik has our full backing. We think he is the right coach for us.

"We have worked very closely together in this transfer window and we are going to continue working very closely with him to help get the best results out of the team."
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Ashworth :

"Very rarely do you go into a job as a sporting director and there is no manager in place," he added.

"All I can do is reiterate that I've really enjoyed working with Erik for the last eight weeks.

"My job is to support him in every way I possible can, whether that's operationally, with recruitment, medical, psychology, [and] the training ground flow to allow him to fully focus on the training pitch and match tactical plan, to deliver success for Manchester United."
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Are you confident in the squad now?

Dan Ashworth:
"I've probably done 25 windows now. I don't think there’s ever been one where we've gone, 'it's gone absolutely perfectly, we've done every single in and every single out'. But in the main, with the target positions we wanted to strengthen, the players we've brought in and the depth and options Erik has when everybody is fully fit that Erik has, I'm pleased yes."
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How long will it take for you to be consistently successful?

Omar Berrada:

"It's almost impossible to put a timescale to that question. When you look at the teams who have been successful consistently for many years it's because they have the right coach, have signed the right players and have the right structure. You need to take good decisions consistently for many years to get into a position where you are a financially sustainable club that is competing to win every single competition. That is where we want to be. We don't want to just win one Premier League and be satisfied. We want to create a team that is capable of competing for the Champions League, for the Premier League and for the domestic cups on a consistent basis. To build that, we need to be doing more of what we have done in this window. Dan and the team did a fantastic job in the negotiations process. If you make a mistake and you overspend or get a player who can cost you too much, it can set you back. Which is why you need to be able to take those decisions and make the right ones consistently over time to be in a position to win consistently. There will be some mistakes that we made, it's normal there are certain factors we can't control. But all of the controllables, we are going to put our best foot forward to get it right."
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Have you adopted a different approach to selling players?

Omar Berrada:
"The process for selling is very similar to the process for buying. You have a framework, you know what you are trying to achieve and it has to make sense for the club and the player. If you stay within those parameters and you are decisive, then generally you get it right. It is true we have been more open to structuring the contracts in a way that can deliver value for us in the short-term, but also in the future, introducing higher sell-ons and more realistic contingents. We have done that with practically all of the players who have gone out. We have also tried to put in place certain policies to protect us in the future. So we have the ability to buy back a player, Willy Kambwala for instance, if he does really well."
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Dan Ashworth:
"Sometimes you have to be quite brave and make decisions that maybe you don't want to make. You can't have a bloated squad, and you're also dealing with players that ultimately want to play football. The schedule, especially with the new Europa League format, is pretty punishing. So we want to make sure we've got enough depth while keeping the players motivated, and with the thought that they've got a chance of playing. If you run with too big a squad, it can cause problems. The rules and regulations mean you have to churn. You have to generate money to be able to spend that money back out as well. So the number of one-club players is probably changing. That's an unintended consequence of the rules and regulations."
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Highfather_24 said:
There's an element of truth to this, but then again its also Ten Hag that he chose Casemiro to be the '1', a player who is not good when pressed. Casemiro's competition Ugarte has the same problems.
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Put it this way.Casemiro twice lost the ball under 0 pressure with in 6 minutes leading up to the mistake that caused the first goal. If memory serves correctly, first eas in the center yet Mainoo rescued him and won it back instantly after he straight up passed it to a Liverpool midfielder who was so surpised at receiving it Mainoo was able to quickly recover it. Second, on the right touch line. He won possesion, dribbled two Pool players with ease. Hit the right touchline. Turned and just left the balk there. Leaving the ball on the throw in line and abandoning it for Liverpool to just pick. Then the ridiculous holywood ball they intercepted to score. All 3 were unforced errors.

Even the second one caused by him being robbed. He was never in control of the ball yet played for a foul rather than simply booting it upfield when he sensed he could be caught in a pressing trap.

Truth be told is he put in a straight up unproffesional performance. Its easy to say "the team didn't help him" or "the coach didnt play a set up that suits him" if one actually doesn't critically look at what mistakes he made and why. He was just sloppy. Not slow or caught out by brilliant pressing. Just utterly sloppy in decisions a player of his experience would NEVER make when being serious. That is why being substituted at half time for a rookie in Collyer was ideal public chastisement. He won't be in a hurry to be that sloppy again.
 
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