Erik ten Hag | 2024/25

[Drainy]

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but that is utter hogwash. It is very clearly based on Ten Hag's instruction because it happens every single game. He is clearly telling the midfielders and full backs to push up so high all the time. The difference between the positions of Liverpool's back 6 and our back 6 was so glaring.

No he literally said in his post match interview that none of the goals came from a structural problem except for the third where the double six (i.e. Collyer) was out of position.

The rest of the goals were individual errors only - bad pass for the first, caught in possession second, caught in possession and Collyer out of position (the shape being incorrect) for the third.

The build up is not just 3-1-6, but also 3-2-5 and 2-3-5 depending on where the ball is, the opposition etc. Since Mainoo was taking the ball wide, Collyer was required to support in the double 6

 

[VP89]

With a win against Southampton, it will also depend on the performance. If we win 2-0 in a unspectacular, but solid performance, then that's ok, but if it's something like a 2-1 win with us hanging on a bit (see Luton away last season), it will feel like paper over cracks

Lets be honest he needs to do quite a few wins on the bounce with convincing performances. I don't think a potential good W against Southampton will ease the pressure. He needs to do it vs them + Palace and make a statement against Spurs/Chelsea/Villa.

 

[pratyush_utd]

Any timestamp of where Mainoo ran up to completely isolate Casemiro? Mainoo looks to be in his own half most the time in the vid but I havent seen it all.

Yes that run by Mainoo was odd. It must be instruction because if you see Mainoo losing the ball for 3rd goal, Collyer was standing where i would assume a Left forward would be standing

 

[Sarni]

For a top 4 finish;
you can see a loss to Brighton away, anyone could lose to them on their day especially so early in the season
you can lose to Liverpool, again they can beat anyone as much as any team in the league really

But realistically against Southampton its a must win after losing both of those games - three loses on the bounce the last one being an extremely winnable game against a newly promoted side - its major crisis time and I can see Ineos sending Wilcox for a word with the staff about whats going wrong

And I can see ten Hag simply talking his way out of trouble as he tends to do.

 

[DavelinaJolie]

Im suprised a reporter was willing to go in that hard on him.

Ten Hag invited it by his initial response, asking the journalist to explain the mistakes United make regularly.

 

[bosskeano]

A few of us have been bemoaning how dire it has been for a long time. The amendments have been band aids over wounds that need stitches. It gets tiring reiterating the same issues.

The biggest issue of all is a manager that has shown he doesn’t know how to fix things, nor even coach what he’s trying to implement.

Plug needs pulling. This is just a stay of execution.

you watch that video for the first couple of minutes and you notice two things right off the bat....at least i did

1. I hate how for some reason EtH has the CB's going into the middle of the pitch YET the fullback doesn't drop into a deeper position to create a third CB ESPECIALLY when the Winger has stepped inside to press
2a. The CM's never or rarely receive on the half turn.....which leads to 2b. the CM rarely play one touch negative diagonal bounce passes after pulling in the defender for the CB or CM partner to play forward


These are two clear staples of being able to play out of the back...Liverpool's press honestly wasn't great. It was organized, yes. Had some intensity, Yes. They left easy gaps to play into but our CM's just were so poor on the ball with how they received and our CB's were in too much of a hurry to play forward and rarely recycled the ball once Liverpool jumped the press high.

 

[VP89]

Yes that run by Mainoo was odd. It must be instruction because if you see Mainoo losing the ball for 3rd goal, Collyer was standing where i would assume a Left forward would be standing

I agree that Collyer's introduction had messy instructions. He was clearly instructed to go join the attack like McTominay was.

Broadly speaking though, Mainoo and Casemiro have been holding the fort together with less isolation - this was seen vs Fulham and Brighton and credited as a positive change by pundits.

 

[BluesJr]

I think the squad is actually pretty decent so I'm optimistic once this joker fecks off we'll improve quite quickly. Sooner the better.

 

[glazed]

If you wanted to keep him after the cup final but want him to go after yesterday, then I'm sorry but you are stupid. Nothing has changed that should alter your position. We lost to a better team yesterday because they have a very good midfield and we don't. It's pretty much that simple. ETH was not the one handling summer recruitment.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I really hope he doesn't refuse to play Ugarte and/or play him in the wrong role as self-sabotage to spite INEOS for signing a player he didn't want.

 

[devilish]

Any timestamp of where Mainoo ran up to completely isolate Casemiro? Mainoo looks to be in his own half most the time in the vid but I havent seen it all.

The video goes in quite a deep analysis. I suggest that you see it if you've got the time

 

[Moriarty]

I really hope he doesn't refuse to play Ugarte and/or play him in the wrong role as self-sabotage to spite INEOS for signing a player he didn't want.

Wilcox won't stand for that.

 

[Berbaclass]

Wilcox won't stand for that.

Ashworth it would be no?

 

[Moriarty]

Ashworth it would be no?

I thought Wilcox was ETH's immediate boss. I can't keep up though so I'll defer to you.

 

[Shark]

The more I hear about how much ETH didn’t want Ugarte, the more excited I am about how good a signing he’s going to be for us.

Same. Anyone who ETH genuinely wanted has mostly been rubbish. Martinez and Hojilund the only exceptions, but even at that there's question marks. Antony, Anrabat, Eriksen, Mount, Onana, Weghorst and Malacia all found wanting for one reason or another. Zirzkee looking questionable early on also.

 

[saik]

Ashworth it would be no?

Yea. Why would it be Wilcox? It most probably will be Ashworth and Berrada.

 

[Blood Mage]

Does anyone even look forward to our games with this fraud in charge? I am personally dreading them every week out of fear of embarrassment. Eg we play Southampton next and would it even surprise anyone to see them pick up their first points of the season against us, or even win the game? And for that matter would anyone be actually shocked if they were to smash us 3-0? I wouldn’t say it’s completely impossible, our even that unlikely that they will get points against us.

Palace, Spurs and Villa I’m sure we won’t even be below evens to win these games, probably won’t even be favorites against Spurs and Villa at all. And then it’s Brentford who have casually outplayed us for the last two years, West Ham where we haven’t got a point or a goal under ETH and Chelsea who are probably better than us too.

But fortunately it’s then Leicester, Ipswich and Everton in consecutive games in November where the great Erik, our most precious manager ever, will have the chance to redeem himself getting 5 or maybe even 7 points.

Nope. I'm looking forward to seeing how Ugarte and Yoro do when they're both available as I think they're good signings but that's it.

 

[Berbaclass]

I thought Wilcox was ETH's immediate boss. I can't keep up though so I'll defer to you.

Nah it would be Dan, he's the sporting director.

 

[Moriarty]

Nah it would be Dan, he's the sporting director.

What does Wilcox do then?

 

[Berbaclass]

What does Wilcox do then?

Technical director

 

[Moriarty]

Technical director

So the chain of command is Ashworth on top, Wilcox in the middle and Ten Hag at the bottom?

 

[Borys]

A loss to Liverpool in Ten Hags 3rd season really shouldnt be expected, that just confirms that he has done nothing to improve us after all this time and money spend.

But we knew that after 2 seasons. That's the whole point, it's nothing new. Should this be acceptable? Surely not, that's why Ineos talked to other managers last season even after the cup win.

 

[Berbaclass]

So the chain of command is Ashworth on top, Wilcox in the middle and Ten Hag at the bottom?

I don't think Wilcox is between Ashwort and Ten Hag. Ashworth is ETH's boss and Omar Berrarda is Dan Ashworth's boss. Wilcox branches off from Ashworth in a slightly different remit.

Ashworth himself described himself as the centre of a wheel with the spokes coming off it.

 

[VP89]

The video goes in quite a deep analysis. I suggest that you see it if you've got the time

I watched it up to the Collyer bit and didn't see where Mainoo left casemiro completely isolated. There are times where there's a wider gap between the two vertically but mainoo is still in his own half, and Casemiro can play safer passes when he chose not to.

 

[Acquire Me]

Wondering if Ineos has been in meetings today. Should swallow their pride and pull the plug.

 

[crossy1686]

Wondering if Ineos has been in meetings today. Should swallow their pride and pull the plug.

You would hope they’re having a crisis meeting and sounding out replacements during the break.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Does anyone even look forward to our games with this fraud in charge?

feck no. Was out with the family yesterday and didn't even rush home for the match. Missed the first 20 minutes and didn't give a flying feck.

Though tbh, it's been this way since Fergie left barring some spells here-and-there. At one point under Ole, I genuinely enjoyed watching us. Early days Jose was interesting, and ETH had us playing well for a brief period in his first season.

 

[Moriarty]

I don't think Wilcox is between Ashwort and Ten Hag. Ashworth is ETH's boss and Omar Berrarda is Dan Ashworth's boss. Wilcox branches off from Ashworth in a slightly different remit.

Ashworth himself described himself as the centre of a wheel with the spokes coming off it.

I see. A new concept for United than. I hope it works.

 

[RuudTom83]

For a top 4 finish;
you can see a loss to Brighton away, anyone could lose to them on their day especially so early in the season
you can lose to Liverpool, again they can beat anyone as much as any team in the league really

But realistically against Southampton its a must win after losing both of those games - three loses on the bounce the last one being an extremely winnable game against a newly promoted side - its major crisis time and I can see Ineos sending Wilcox for a word with the staff about whats going wrong

Very true, I made a similar point.

After the Brighton game I was pissed at all the players/coaches for not concentrating for 2 extra mins...that stupidity turns the Liverpool game into a far more difficult match. Which has now created a media frenzy for the next 2 weeks.

Will any of them learn? don't hold your breath.

 

[Acheron]

United are regressing and not improving. His signings are always shit.
Sack him. Even me a Madrid fan is tired of him. Sack him!!

I'm also baffled at how they kept him but it's no my team so now I want to see how long are they gonna keep this lunacy going on.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

You would hope they’re having a crisis meeting and sounding out replacements during the break.

United will officially announce their plans to build a new stadium at the end of 2024

I reckon they’ll tactically sack Ten Hag shortly before that, to take the news off the sacking a little. And so that the stadium announcement has a bit of a “building for the future” and “fresh start” feel about it

 

[Highfather_24]

I agree that Collyer's introduction had messy instructions. He was clearly instructed to go join the attack like McTominay was.

Broadly speaking though, Mainoo and Casemiro have been holding the fort together with less isolation - this was seen vs Fulham and Brighton and credited as a positive change by pundits.

In the first half, Casemiro was the '1' in the 3-1 buildup. Sometimes Mainoo would join him to make it a 3-2, sometimes it would be one of the fullbacks(less so iirc).

In the second half, Mainoo became the '1', because we needed someone technically secure in that role. Collyer couldnt have been that player. Dalot would often invert to make that 3-2 shape :

Maz--MDL--Martinez
---Mainoo-Dalot

Something like this. Probably because Collyer was not trusted in the double pivot to keep the ball. I can see something similar with Ugarte/Casemiro from now onwards if ETH in sensible. Its also why I think our squad needed another midfielder comfortable in the first phase.

 

[TsuWave]

Wondering if Ineos has been in meetings today. Should swallow their pride and pull the plug.

Never too late/early to rectify a mistake. It would show decisiveness regardless of what people think.

Subscribing to sunk cost fallacy would be the worst option here

 

[RedRocket9908]

But realistically against Southampton its a must win after losing both of those games -

ST Mary's is a bogey ground for us and the players will be under a lot of pressure plus we cant score goals, we have scored only 1 goal so far from 3 games and you dont win matches if you dont score goals.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I'm also baffled at how they kept him but it's no my team so now I want to see how long are they gonna keep this lunacy going on.

Its funnier when it happens to other people (ie chelsea), but i totally get it

 

[pocco]

He's going to be the biggest mistake post Fergie. I said this last season but he's going to do more damage than any of our other managers and we'll waste more time on him.

 

[Borys]

I watched it up to the Collyer bit and didn't see where Mainoo left casemiro completely isolated. There are times where there's a wider gap between the two vertically but mainoo is still in his own half, and Casemiro can play safer passes when he chose not to.

I think we played proper 4231.
There were two aspects yesterday. One is the midfield was tasked to progress the ball more bravely (mainly Casemiro) and second is Liverpool were pressing our midfielders like crazy. The result was too obvious.

There's a universe in which we play 3 man midfield in those games to make sure we're not getting overrun, but this isn't the one we're living in. Still, even if we have 3 midfielders, I don't think we have any idea how to attack as a team, and Salah probably would squeeze in a goal anyway.

Like you said, Casemiro had other options to play the ball, but he chose not to play it safe. There's part of Casemiro and part of the coaching aspect there.

 

[RDCR07]

I really hope he doesn't refuse to play Ugarte and/or play him in the wrong role as self-sabotage to spite INEOS for signing a player he didn't want.

Who do you think has the upper hand here? Is the management or the manager? One party is hired by the owner to run the club and is here to stay and the other had a lifeline thrown to him over the summer?

 

[pocco]

ST Mary's is a bogey ground for us and the players will be under a lot of pressure plus we cant score goals, we have scored only 1 goal so far from 3 games and you dont win matches if you dont score goals.

Southampton played a good brand of football in the championship last season. They've absolutely dominated possession in their first three games, don't be surprised if they do something against us.

 

[DJ_21]

INEOS have decided to back this guy. But they didn’t want to. This isn’t their man. I think they’d prefer their own guy but they decided to back him because there was no one suitable to take over. At the first possible chance they’ll get rid and bring in their own man. But it has to be someone who can play what they want and play with the squad we’ve currently got.