Erik ten Hag | 2024/25

Erik ten Hag

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I don't have the patience to defend him anymore, as im no longer convinced that he will ever get us to where he wants us to be.

I think sacking him now is not realistic for the owners that backed him a few months ago. But he must be as close to the sack as possible. We have some good players, it shouldn't be this hard to make us decent.
 
pocco said:
OK, so he coached a completely different way of playing, changed the shape, changed how they build from the back, but it's all down to Potter? Either a) bollocks, or b) let's hire Potter then. There's two options for you right there.

But you don't think their huge injury list and lacklustre backup had anything to do with it no? Just a coincidence was it? He even started last season well, but when the injuries came, they tailed off. Was that all just a coincidence, as it was actually just the players forgetting what Potter had taught them?
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I said his success was built on the defence that Potter had built, which is demonstrated in the fact that the more time they worked with De Zerbi the more goals they conceded. The sweet spot was when the team was a mix of Potter's good defence and rubbish attack, and De Zerbi's good attack and rubbish defence.

The injuries were at least partly a consequence of the football approach being unsustainable in both the league and Europe,

But hey, if you're happy with a manager that sets a team up to pass out from the back, and makes them concede the most in the league outside of the relegated teams, putting together a run of relegation form in the second half of the season due to an unsustainable brand of football, then you're gonna love a certain bald Dutch manager at United.
 
MadMike said:
He needs to be given more time to instil his football philosophy and the board need more time to shift all the deadwood. He also needs more good players, specifically:
  • One LB because Shaw and Malacia are always injured and Dalot is not a LB.
  • One CB to replace Maguire and Lindelof who are on their way out.
  • Two CMs, a defensive one to replace Casemiro and a more all-rounder to replace Eriksen, since they are both cooked.
  • Two wingers to replace Rashford and Antony who's are also done

Use the season purely to bed the new/young players we got in. Then make 6 transfers, corresponding to the above positions between now and next August (incl. January window). Use the preseason without international football to get all the players (including new arrivals) singing from the same hymn sheet. Make a proper go of it next season. He needs more time.
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And then next season the excuse will be he needs time to bed the new players in.
 
Solius said:
I know we collapsed a bit in that game but I think we often fall into the trap of calling ourselves lucky not to lose whilst also ignoring the luck opposition teams had.

It was a tragic performance after going 3 - 0 up but their second goal was one of the luckiest I've ever seen.
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For sure but we shouldn’t have let them have a sniff at 3-0 up. It’s a story often repeated with us with how easy we concede goals and lack any kind of control.

When ETH came onboard he often spoke about how we couldn’t control games under the previous regime. And in his third season, he has failed to make any kind of improvement in that area. I would even say we’re even more chaotic than before he came in.
 
Hes about to come up against a managerial rookie in Russell Martin, who has implemented a very specific style into his players (keeping the ball, very compact) at Southampton and his previous clubs in a short space of time, with a squad of championship level players.

Then Ange at Spurs, who with just a pre-seaon at Spurs had them starting from the firstt game of the season playing (Angeball)- the exact opposite as under their previous manager (Conte)

Then Unai Umery, who took a team under Gerrard that was in the lower reaches of the table (4th from bottom after 12 games) and took them into the champions league, in pretty much 18 months, whilst setting all kinds of records for things like longest winning sequence at home (16 matches).

Feck me, the grass is sometimes greener, people have nicer cows.
 
Yesterday was the 21st time we have conceded at least 3 goals in a game since he took charge. Brentford, Man City x3, Villa, Arsenal x2, Liverpool x2, Sevilla, Brighton, Bayern, Galatasaray x2, Newcastle, Copenhagen, Bournemouth, Wolves, Chelsea, Coventry, Palace

In 9 of those we've been beaten by at least 3. Brentford, Man City x2, Liverpool x2, Sevilla, Newcastle, Bournemouth, Palace

I don't expect him to be sacked this early in the season but there are 7 games before the next international break at the start of October and he should be gone by then without serious improvement.
 
Solius said:
I know we collapsed a bit in that game but I think we often fall into the trap of calling ourselves lucky not to lose whilst also ignoring the luck opposition teams had.

It was a tragic performance after going 3 - 0 up but their second goal was one of the luckiest I've ever seen.
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The fact that we are even discussing whether we were lucky to beat Coventry in a game we led by 3 goals, with them being a mid table Championship side at the time, is a testament to how freaking horrible we are under this fraud.
 
Sarni said:
The fact that we are even discussing whether we were lucky to beat Coventry in a game we led by 3 goals, with them being a mid table Championship side at the time, is a testament to how freaking horrible we are under this fraud.
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Yeah not denying how bad the collapse was. It doesn’t excuse it but it was often compounded by rotten luck. Some by our own making.
 
A bit of calm after the storm.

Fulham, Brighton, Liverpool...I'd say a Win, Draw, Lose from those 3 match would have been fair. So United are -1 point so far this season.

But this team/manager/club always finds a way to create drama and chaos at every opportunity. Failed to concentrate for 2 minutes extra time against Brighton now means they all get destroyed on socials for the next 2 weeks. Bunch of dumbarsed the lot of them.
 
Zumbi said:
I’m deferring specifically and only to their choice of a replacement. They have yet to appoint their own man and I have zero doubt they will have been succession planning since the moment they took over, because that’s what any club would do when their current manager is failing. Them deciding not to sack Ten Hag at the end of the season does not mean they aren’t actively discussing his replacement right now. So if they decide to replace them Hag with Ruud, for example, I don’t think it’ll be “change for the sake of change”. I think it’ll be because they’ve assessed their options and think he might be an improvement and is therefore worth a try.
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I agree that, if the management team decide to replace Ten Hag, it'll be as part of a long term plan. I have a great deal of faith in the new footballing structure to make rational proactive decisions rather than the reactive ones of the old regime.

But at the moment, their choice of a replacement at the moment is that there isn't one, thereby showing they don't believe there is an available alternative that will improve things for us. So you must agree with that?
 
RuudTom83 said:
A bit of calm after the storm.

Fulham, Brighton, Liverpool...I'd say a Win, Draw, Lose from those 3 match would have been fair. So United are -1 point so far this season.

But this team/manager/club always finds a way to create drama and chaos at every opportunity. Failed to concentrate for 2 minutes extra time against Brighton now means they all get destroyed on socials for the next 2 weeks. Bunch of dumbarsed the lot of them.
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Only under Ten Hag have expectations this low become normal.
 
JPRouve said:
It makes sense during your first season but not the third. ETH is familiar with everyone in the team, the only players that he has never coached for at least 1 year are Zirkzee, Ugarte and Yoro. So if he is a decent manager he should have a solid plan for any combination of player at his disposal otherwise he is useless, the most important contribution of a manager is a context where things are less than ideal, that's when you know what you actually have as a manager. Also the playing style of a manager should never rely on a specific set of 11 players, it should be ideal for at least 16-17 players and still efficient for 20+ members of the team with adjustments.
If it relies on 11 players then it needs to be binned, especially when it's the third season.
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Yeah, all good points there. I guess I’d like to see Ugarte’s impact. I think we were unlucky against Brighton and then just outclassed by Liverpool. I mean, if you can’t set up your players against such a rival, is there any point continuing?

Only thing that keeps him here it seems is that there’s no great alternative out there.. is there?
 
Solius said:
Yeah not denying how bad the collapse was. It doesn’t excuse it but it was often compounded by rotten luck. Some by our own making.
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Over the course of season though, the luck was predominantly on our side though. We definitely should not have got as many points as we did, and the cup win was built on many moments where luck went our way as well. That's why entering this season I was of the view that even if we improve substantially, we might actually have a very similar season to the previous one in terms of points / league position / results, as the luck factor balanced out injuries / lack of quality.
 
ROFLUTION said:
Yeah, all good points there. I guess I’d like to see Ugarte’s impact. I think we were unlucky against Brighton and then just outclassed by Liverpool. I mean, if you can’t set up your players against such a rival, is there any point continuing?

Only thing that keeps him here it seems is that there’s no great alternative out there.. is there?
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The problem with Ugarte is, even if we somehow start performing better with him and grind out results, are we really comfortable knowing that we are then 1 injury away from completely collapsing? He will also be our second or third player whose impact is that signfiicant because we've apparently already decided we can't play football without Martinez.
 
He's a good manager when it comes to solving problems he caused himself in the first place, the only problem is it'll probably take until the final game of the season to force him to do it.
However, the final game of the season will be probably in the next 10-15 games. For Ten Hag at least.
 
crossy1686 said:
Only under Ten Hag have expectations this low become normal.
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Last 10 years would be more accurate :( I expect so little from all of them...I find myself holding onto the hope that teams that finish 4th usually lose about 10 games a season, so United still have 8 more to go.

Depressing!
 
IRN-BRUno said:
Yesterday was the 21st time we have conceded at least 3 goals in a game since he took charge. Brentford, Man City x3, Villa, Arsenal x2, Liverpool x2, Sevilla, Brighton, Bayern, Galatasaray x2, Newcastle, Copenhagen, Bournemouth, Wolves, Chelsea, Coventry, Palace

In 9 of those we've been beaten by at least 3. Brentford, Man City x2, Liverpool x2, Sevilla, Newcastle, Bournemouth, Palace

I don't expect him to be sacked this early in the season but there are 7 games before the next international break at the start of October and he should be gone by then without serious improvement.
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It just shows how much patience did the board have with him and let's be honest, our fans who attend matches are never bothered to show disapproval of a manager. We might be even in the relegation battle and most of the fans will keep on clapping.
 
Philosopher Ten Hag had a spectacular day yesterday. His comments before the game were crazy but what he had to say afterwards was even worse. Let's not forget the idiotic game management.

Ugarte will need weeks, maybe months, EY?

The way he talks is so infuriating. There is no shame, no accountability, there is nothing. His smiles and laughter in the presser were unbelievable. He appeared like a delusional weirdo.

And once a journo pressures him with a bizarre concept called "reality", he is losing it. "I feel sorry for you", really. Everything that hack said was true. Our manager just smiled in disbelief and looked pissed. How dare he, the fool? Doesn't he know my standards? EY?

Philosopher Ten Hag then lectured all present that the two trophies show our abilities. He obviously forgot what the table had to say. It was an abysmal season, but hey, who cares, he isn't "Harry Potter", and we're "in transition", so results don't matter. What a perfect fantasy.

He should have been fired last season and now we're not better, no. We have better players, but fail as we did before the summer.

Moyes was a cringe fest, Ole's talking about "the boys"and spreading wisdom like "trophies are for egos" were just crazy. Philosopher Ten Hag apparently accepted the challenge and took the art of embarrassment to a whole new level. Champions League level.

If this continues and he isn't fired, we will waste another season. He broke hearts and all kinds of negative records, this won't change. The difference now is that no one will feel sorry for the philosopher Ten Hag the longer this absurd theater continues.

This won't end well. Make it stop.
 
All to easy to see us picking up a few wins against easier teams in the coming months then that being enough to keep him in place into the new year by which time our season will be over
 
Do believe board has seen enough and will now start looking at potential candidates to replace ten Hag, while giving him another month or two (depending on results).
 
Goldbridge has crowned him prat of the week
 
RuudTom83 said:
Last 10 years would be more accurate :( I expect so little from all of them...I find myself holding onto the hope that teams that finish 4th usually lose about 10 games a season, so United still have 8 more to go.

Depressing!
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No one would have said the expectation was 4 points from the first three games under Ole when we have two home games and one away game to Brighton. Liverpool or not, they don't just turn up to OT and take three points. That's a Ten Hag special that has become normalised.
 
What's the polling at the moment (can't see before voting)?
 
ROFLUTION said:
Yeah, all good points there. I guess I’d like to see Ugarte’s impact. I think we were unlucky against Brighton and then just outclassed by Liverpool. I mean, if you can’t set up your players against such a rival, is there any point continuing?

Only thing that keeps him here it seems is that there’s no great alternative out there.. is there?
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No, the only thing that kept him here is that the executives have been as useless as the manager. While an alternative that seems great on paper is ideal for optics, it's not a guarantee of success and it's not a justification to keep a manager that is definitely not a great option himself on paper and from experience. The only thing that can justify keeping him is if for some reason they genuinely believe that no other manager was in the same tier or had the potential to be on the same tier than current Ten Hag.

We need to keep in mind that a lateral move or even bringing a manager that is less proven has its merits because you introduce fresh eyes and fresh opinions, it's unlikely to succeed like most appointments but that change can see some players show new sides to their game, it may expose the limitations of others and in general all elite managers weren't on paper great candidates at some point, a club took a chance and it paid off.
 
He's just a terrible manager but more specifically a rubbish coach, I can't think of anyone who has been as bad as he is spending north of 600 million over three seasons.

When Arteta hit the 400 million ball park he was challenging for the league. Erik is one of the worst managers in the league on account of the relativity of performances and the resources he's been given to succeed.

I warned that the pre season performance would have a detrimental effect on the start of the season. Because by the managers own admission the games were of importance and while many ignorantly thought nothing of it the team was losing games the manager was trying desperately to win. That's why I think the community shield loss was a big kick in the teeth for Eric because it would have been in his rationale a third successive trophy.

If you gave him any other team that's just below a top six placed domestic outfit I'm confident he would likely relegate them.

All the wrong mixes; awkward personality, no charisma, no tactical nous and doesn't convey his points effectively.
 
I think you could give him another 5 years, nothing I’ve seen convinces me he’s the man for the job. He’s just totally unconvincing in all departments at this point, doesn’t even talk a good game now.
 
By not sacking him when we should, at the end of the previous season, with a whole summer to look for a proper replacement, now we will be, again, like always, in a precarious position:
- We keep him and hope for the best, which may never come.
- We sack him and we hire an interim which means another year to the trash bin
- We sack him and we hire whoever is available and willing to come to our roller coaster

Either way, it's bad.
 
JPRouve said:
No, the only thing that kept him here is that the executives have been as useless as the manager. While an alternative that seems great on paper is ideal for optics, it's not a guarantee of success and it's not a justification to keep a manager that is definitely not a great option himself on paper and from experience. The only thing that can justify keeping him is if for some reason they genuinely believe that no other manager was in the same tier or had the potential to be on the same tier than current Ten Hag.

We need to keep in mind that a lateral move or even bringing a manager that is less proven has its merits because you introduce fresh eyes and fresh opinions, it's unlikely to succeed like most appointments but that change can see some players show new sides to their game, it may expose the limitations of others and in general all elite managers weren't on paper great candidates at some point, a club took a chance and it paid off.
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To be fair on a new coach, I don’t think anyone will succeed without having more World Class players in the squad.

It’ll take 2 years for Garnacho to get there imo. It’ll take 2 more transferyears if not more. So no matter who the potential manager is, they wont have great succes and we’d be back to hating and blaming the manager again imo. There’s so much shit to untangle, and so much to build up after the Woodward/Glazers nightmare era.
 
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