Back to being pissed off once a week instead of twice for a while.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Back to being pissed off once a week instead of twice for a while.
I wish we had a rest till September.
Is spending 250m to go from 6th to 4th (maybe 5th) really an achievement?
He isn't doing any better than Ole, despite having better players than what Ole had
He isn't doing any better than Ole, despite having better players than what Ole had
Bolded is the problem for me with ten Hag too. His selections often confuse me.
It's actually worse this way.
We've barely had two bad results in a row. No chance to put things right until Saturday
I know it's counterintuitive given 'tiredness' and sports sci, but we need someone to 'murderball' these players, both in terms of instilling some semblance of reflexive short-passing skills (and movement) but also to associate passive play with 'pain'. Any side that plays with some sort of intensity, moves the ball quickly (even if they're not accurate, pressing to win the 2nd ball) and attacks directly has our number these days.
The other thing to do would be to introduce u-21 players (who are 'signed up to the program;' in terms of playing a quick-passing, aggressive style), which has the benefit of resting any genuinely exhausted players but also , frankly, humiliating parts of the first team. So many of these players have lived with no consequences; in a Pep squad they'd be outcasts unless they sweated and (tech as well as fitness) trained their way back into the picture.
Bielsa wouldn't have enough 'authority' with his lack of trophies to manage, but if allowed to be sufficiently autocratic on the training pitch, could at least raise their levels by 30% if brought in as a 'special assistant' or 1st team coach (of course in practice this won't happen, but if he could get a Leeds team partly composed of mid-level Championship players to a collective level sufficient to match most premier league teams in play, if not always in finishing, then there's a case that even these players could be improved) .
Whatever's going on terms of psychological as well as tactical management, arguably there isn't enough... shaming in order to produce 'pride' and self-discipline, as well as ( either work around, or ensuring internalization of instructions around) progressive interplay and overloads. They aren't schoolchildren or YTS players to be managed in their formative years but adult professionals playing at the bleeding edge of their sport: there's a case to be made that if they're not resilient enough or capable of building their resilience then they're not suitable and the remainder of the season should be a way of finishing that 'screening' as much as stumbling over the line for top 4.
The other thing to do would be to introduce u-21 players (who are 'signed up to the program;' in terms of playing a quick-passing, aggressive style), which has the benefit of resting any genuinely exhausted players but also , frankly, humiliating parts of the first team. So many of these players have lived with no consequences; in a Pep squad they'd be outcasts unless they sweated and (tech as well as fitness) trained their way back into the picture.
Bielsa wouldn't have enough 'authority' with his lack of trophies to manage, but if allowed to be sufficiently autocratic on the training pitch, could at least raise their levels by 30% if brought in as a 'special assistant' or 1st team coach (of course in practice this won't happen, but if he could get a Leeds team partly composed of mid-level Championship players to a collective level sufficient to match most premier league teams in play, if not always in finishing, then there's a case that even these players could be improved) .
Whatever's going on terms of psychological as well as tactical management, arguably there isn't enough... shaming in order to produce 'pride' and self-discipline, as well as ( either work around, or ensuring internalization of instructions around) progressive interplay and overloads. They aren't schoolchildren or YTS players to be managed in their formative years but adult professionals playing at the bleeding edge of their sport: there's a case to be made that if they're not resilient enough or capable of building their resilience then they're not suitable and the remainder of the season should be a way of finishing that 'screening' as much as stumbling over the line for top 4.
So he blames himself ?
If it's all the effort that we can put, we are fecked.
He knows we were in white doesn’t he?
I knew we were going to lose today. Not suprised at all, we were fortunate not to be 3-0 down, for the penalty handball and dea gea going down like he was shot, when it was just a glance. The set up was tactically naive, we rely too much on interchange on the flanks and the idea is to sit back and wait for counters. At west ham who sit deep it was never going to work.
Starting malacia was criminal, he is too lightweight and his positioning is questionable and he was always going to be having problems against Antonio. He should have started dalot and starting weghorst is just beyond stupid, the point should have reached home by now that he's not cut out for this level
I think ETH is a good solid manager but I can't see him taking us to the next level to compete with the elite managers in the prem and CL. I think he will steady the ship for the next few seasons in helping us to be established top 4, anything more than that judging from his ajax, days where ajax bottled semi finals away from home to the likes of spurs and benefica, I can't see him becoming our Pep/Sir Alex or this ''genius' who is going to bring back the glory days
Starting malacia was criminal, he is too lightweight and his positioning is questionable and he was always going to be having problems against Antonio. He should have started dalot and starting weghorst is just beyond stupid, the point should have reached home by now that he's not cut out for this level
I think ETH is a good solid manager but I can't see him taking us to the next level to compete with the elite managers in the prem and CL. I think he will steady the ship for the next few seasons in helping us to be established top 4, anything more than that judging from his ajax, days where ajax bottled semi finals away from home to the likes of spurs and benefica, I can't see him becoming our Pep/Sir Alex or this ''genius' who is going to bring back the glory days
I genuinely want him to succeed but I don't think he is good enough for where we want to be
Whether we get top 4 or not, I don't see him lasting beyond next season under any owner. Atleast to me and many others, he hasn't shown anything to justify a spending spree in the summer.But knowing our club, we will raid eredivise and realize half way through next season, it's not working out and then bring in someone to clean up the mess.
Apart from the post WC Rashford form time, we have been meh eitherside. And our run ins for both cups have been easy and at home mostly. God forbid, if we had an away game against a PL team in there as well.
Whether we get top 4 or not, I don't see him lasting beyond next season under any owner. Atleast to me and many others, he hasn't shown anything to justify a spending spree in the summer.But knowing our club, we will raid eredivise and realize half way through next season, it's not working out and then bring in someone to clean up the mess.
Apart from the post WC Rashford form time, we have been meh eitherside. And our run ins for both cups have been easy and at home mostly. God forbid, if we had an away game against a PL team in there as well.
The doubts are starting to pop up in my mind after this game, but I know clearly our form has enough to blame to schedule and injuries. I will continue supporting him even if we finish outside top four.
I think he should plead the 5th in pressers at this point
What are we actually trying to achieve in or out of possession. We don't really press, we aren't a possession based team, we don't counter attack that much. All we seem to at the moment is pass the ball slowly at the back until the opposition is set and then give the ball away when we have to play through the lines
I understand the players are tired but surely we should still see some sort of structure and style?
I understand the players are tired but surely we should still see some sort of structure and style?
Yeah. The likes of Newcastle and Brighton are just embarrassing the job he is doing.
Has he really done anything to suggest that he'll be any more succesful than Jose or LVG? He's probably a bit more level headed and stable, but besides a few decent runs and periods of nice patterns of play what exactly merits that he should get the special treatment that some posts seem to suggest?
We've been embarrassed against our rivals in ways that never happened under Jose and LVG, and if we somehow manage to throw 4th place to Pool that would be a choke that goes beyond Spursian dimensions.
We've been embarrassed against our rivals in ways that never happened under Jose and LVG, and if we somehow manage to throw 4th place to Pool that would be a choke that goes beyond Spursian dimensions.
I don't understand why he persists with playing Weghorst. Is it because he's dutch? He's nowhere near the level United should be looking at. He should be long gone. He's not even Championship level.
Pep and klopp both had to change their keepers to implement their style of plays. If DDG is still our number 1 next season then he’s asking for the sack.
It is delusion of highest order to say that. Ancelotti and Zidane are several levels ahead of him, Luis Enrique is far more established too. Nagelsman and Pochettino are easily the same level as him.
In 12 months he’ll finally manage to finish 4 and you’ll praise him for doing another miracle.
For me the worst is that he doesn’t seem to acknowledge the fact that our midfield cannot function with lightweight players like Bruno and Eriksen, who are totally ineffective when pressed, can’t shield the ball to save their lives, and non-existent defensively despite all the running about by Bruno. It really is a terrible midfield that can only function when conditions are good. Anthony, Malacia, and Wout are shockers as well. All of his signings which he knew inside out.
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I find it odd and worrying that we can't find a way to adapt to this. For example surely we could ask Bruno to play a bit deeper and make it a genuine 3, not have the full backs push on so much into central areas which can leave spaces open etc (and results in them often being in the most advanced positions vs our actual good players on the ball). The one thing Bruno/Eriksen have is the ability to find a pass, and with Rashford and to an extent Anthony, Martial, surely we'll get an opp to get them in behind or a set piece etc if we just play a bit more patient and compact. We just seem to play in a bizarrely open way which doesn't acknowledge the lack of phsiclity/pace in defence/midfield to deal with the inevitable turn overs we'll have and surely is only further exposing the fatigue we have.
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I find it odd and worrying that we can't find a way to adapt to this. For example surely we could ask Bruno to play a bit deeper and make it a genuine 3, not have the full backs push on so much into central areas which can leave spaces open etc (and results in them often being in the most advanced positions vs our actual good players on the ball). The one thing Bruno/Eriksen have is the ability to find a pass, and with Rashford and to an extent Anthony, Martial, surely we'll get an opp to get them in behind or a set piece etc if we just play a bit more patient and compact. We just seem to play in a bizarrely open way which doesn't acknowledge the lack of phsiclity/pace in defence/midfield to deal with the inevitable turn overs we'll have and surely is only further exposing the fatigue we have.
You're wrong.
Yeah I think he’s a good manager but to say he’s significantly better than them is highest level of delusion. I wouldn’t put him above any of them with full confidence, they are all top managers.
Finishing top 4 is not a miracle either.
Yup, that's what I said. I didn't at all mean more than just that. Nope, the league cup and nothing else is what I meant...
Ten Hag won't last next season
Also, we're surely skint if so.
Won't support him if he doesn't actively pursuit new GK in the summer.
Pep made very clear he wanted new keeper in first season. We don't need another spineless manager that just here to massage player's ego
Pep made very clear he wanted new keeper in first season. We don't need another spineless manager that just here to massage player's ego
I’m desperate for him to succeed but I have serious question.
He’s unable to motivate our players. Time and time again we crumble under the slightest pressure and when we do, we tend to fall completely apart (Liverpool, City, Seville). We also always come out for the second half looking like the players have been drugged.
His selections and tactics are baffling. Constantly pushing Bruno out wide to play Wout, Sabitzer or Martial in his natural position. Starting Malacia and Wout when it’s obvious they’re nowhere near good enough.
When he arrived, we actually played aggressive, front-foot football with team pressing and quick combinations. Since February, all of that went completely out the window. We look completely clueless in every phase of the game. I don’t get how that’s possible but it’s EtH’s responsibility regardless.
Transfers is a mixed bag too. Martinez is great. Casemiro was great but has been awful and a liability for months now. Malacia and Wout are huge mistakes. Antony is okay, but not for the amount we spent on him. We could easily have found someone as good for half the amount and spent the rest on a proper striker.
He’s unable to motivate our players. Time and time again we crumble under the slightest pressure and when we do, we tend to fall completely apart (Liverpool, City, Seville). We also always come out for the second half looking like the players have been drugged.
His selections and tactics are baffling. Constantly pushing Bruno out wide to play Wout, Sabitzer or Martial in his natural position. Starting Malacia and Wout when it’s obvious they’re nowhere near good enough.
When he arrived, we actually played aggressive, front-foot football with team pressing and quick combinations. Since February, all of that went completely out the window. We look completely clueless in every phase of the game. I don’t get how that’s possible but it’s EtH’s responsibility regardless.
Transfers is a mixed bag too. Martinez is great. Casemiro was great but has been awful and a liability for months now. Malacia and Wout are huge mistakes. Antony is okay, but not for the amount we spent on him. We could easily have found someone as good for half the amount and spent the rest on a proper striker.
I dont know how he can fix it at this stage. We need a goalie and a striker asap. We also need better full backs.
I think most depressing of all is CM still needs a major overhaul. Its a huge problem. I have no confidence in our directors and scouting network to find and purchase 2 CMs of real quality.
I think most depressing of all is CM still needs a major overhaul. Its a huge problem. I have no confidence in our directors and scouting network to find and purchase 2 CMs of real quality.
There's nothing "overachieved" this season. We're fighting to get 4th ahead of Liverpool in their worst season in 7 years. We got piss easy runs in both cups with no top 4 team faced until the final in both competitions, and we got KOed in QF in Europe League by a humiliating loss against Sevilla. We also lost 6 and 7 to our biggest rivals this year.
That's like the bare minimum of Manchester United.
Get some standards.
Alarm bells
I thought EtH would be ruthless, I maybe wrong....
Well, there it is. He’s not smart.
Honestly I really want to support ETH but if he cannot see the writing on the wall then it’s a death knell for him unfortunately and he’s unlikely to go beyond next season. He won’t be able to implement the style of play he wants
Ancelotti, arguably, and Zidane (we have no evidence to the contrary at least) do well with a certain kind of settled, balanced, high-grade team, sometimes with little tweaks. I have some significant issues with how Ten Hag's managing things in the last months, but he wouldn't be 4th and struggling to stay there if he had modric and kroos keeping the ball 'on a string' between them and Benzema up front instead of Martial or, god help us, wout. Neither of them were commanding in their respective leagues in the same way that, for instance, Guardiola has been, although they were clutch with high-calibre, technical and experienced teams in knock out competitions. Ancelotti was about par with Everton.
The issues do seem to revolve partly around ETH's general approach, but the balance of the squads is night and day: the question still to be answered is whether, within the limits of new ownership or ( please no) another Glazer summer, he has the ruthless judgement to identify those 4 positions where we need to desperately recruit and those 8 players from the squad (including 1-2 loanees) who need to leave...
Edit: De Gea retention suggestion isn't a promising start
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The only way he survives is if the arabs come and get him players. Sorry but we can't be starting games with Rashy, Lindelof, Awb, Martial if we arw looking to challenge, no matter if they are fresh or tired, the quality is simply not there.
United, I love you but you are not serious people.
“I can't blame my team, they put all their effort in.”
They put all their effort in and produced that. So according to Ten Hag, this is him confirming this is the best they can do at full effort.
They put all their effort in and produced that. So according to Ten Hag, this is him confirming this is the best they can do at full effort.
I’m starting to doubt he even has a style. Ole was going on about “playing higher up the pitch” then signed Maguire.
ETH is trying to “implement his style” with Casemiro, Eriksen and De Gea.
Writing’s on the wall.
I've just give up with this season and almost given up with this club. Maybe after 20 odd years of success under Fergie, we're now paying our dues of mediocrity. Not matter what we do, who we appoint, how much we spend, we're always going to be shite for the foreseeable future. Accept it, it might just make your life easier.
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