What do the club need?
Yes. You need to fill us with the detail because you're getting hysterical about all this promise and that like you know there witnessing it.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Yes. You need to fill us with the detail because you're getting hysterical about all this promise and that like you know there witnessing it.
You genuinely don't think there's some element of nepotism at play when it comes to Wout and Antony? The only other explanation then is that ETH just can't spot talent, which is even more worrying.
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Indeed. Apart from a patch of golden form of Rashford and Casemiro, we didn't look very convincing so this collapse is not unexpected really. But I don't think this is down to "bottling it". We're just not grinding out results anymore. If you rely on that, it will bite you back at some point.
Still I think we've been doing alright and we will be fine against teams that don't press us hard. Even against Brighton It was pretty even content until the pen.
I think we'll get top 4. Also can't see Liverpool and Brighton winning all their games. That would be extraordinary run from Liverpool tbh.
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that one that not getting a replacement is down to lack to funds. He can't possibly think otherwise.
Insulting another member
Then this high intelligence you’re trying so hard to display is made you a moron.
Unless you’re a 12yr old or yet to go for a job interview.
Šutalo should be looked at along with Luka Vušković ( one for the future).
Yes I know it, that's why it's the clubs fault not Erik's.
The club.
"Fix it by being the manager and do manager stuff as he promised the board."
"He promised the club to be the manager the club need."
Make it make sense please, Einstein.
Not saying those academies are better but we seem to be late to either securing young talent from other clubs or bringing some through our own academy.
Seems we're always a step behind in recruiting players where we're paying through the nose. I wish we unearth world class talent on the cheap.
You're right. It was blantantly obvious we were about to be completed dominated in the second half. But what changes can ETH make to regain control? Eriksen was the only player on the bench who'd have improved us but he's clearly not fit enough to be playing this much football after an injury.
I think the same and have for a while. I think he could get us further into contention but toppling the top teams? I just don't see it. I think there's quite a few good managers in the league at the moment and I don't feel like his football will particularly stand out. If we end up with Qatar and do start signing Camavinga, Mbappe etc, then if course we'll be challenging, no matter who the manager is.
That's my gut feeling. We've only improved by spending big money on players, since Ole and the rest were in charge. Take Casemiro and Martinez away and we'd be back down the table right now. With those two we're generally just harder to score against and a bit more composed in our third of the pitch.
That works both ways though. When you consider the context, yes we may get top four, but so are Arsenal and Newcastle, who are both above us and have improved massively with less spend than us. That tells you about how poor the league has been. Which also adds context to our finish, as the other top teams have also been very poor. And for added context, we had an extremely easy run in the cup we did win and mostly home games too. It looks less impressive when you scratch the surface, to me anyway.
We played better in the first half until they tweaked things at half time. But they still seemed to dominate the ball and we relied on counters to create openings. They should have also had goals in the first half.
He's had more players than that. We spent a boat load of money in the summer. When you compare it to the progress teams like Brighton, Newcastle and Arsenal have made with less spend and, in some cases, a worse team...
We were the same at the beginning of the season though. And besides, many of us were questioning team selections earlier in the season for the exact reason. He was taking a stacked team to play lower league opposition. As a manager, be should have had the foresight to see that we need a rest, especially with the WC.
Half the players are shite, that's why! And he knows this!
Everyone who moans about ETH, look at Klopp's first Liverpool side:
And now look at their 11. Klopp gutted that team over time.
ETH will do the same. We can't keep sacking managers because you lot have no patience.
Our team is considerably better than that and we've already spent a good chunk under ETH.
I feel like more people should have paid attention to what Ajax fans were saying when we hired him. Minimal rotation and doesn't give youngsters a chance unless he has to. We're just seeing the same thing he's apparently always done.
How many teams are currently fielding these cheap, world class players? Unless you mean Saka and Martinelli? Neither of whom are world class (at least not yet).
No, you're doing it wrong. You're only supposed to consider the context that makes ETH look better.
Well it is on both. We are agreed the club is a shambles but FDJ didn't want to come so why did he waste so long on it? It was the entire summer almost of will he won't he.
Hopefully this summer things will be different and more prepared but given the uncertainty over the sale of the club I doubt it will be any different personally.
We spent £230m in the summer lads, stop saying he wasn't backed.
Brighton spent £45m.
Brighton spent £45m.
I can't believe people actually believe the manager just delivers his wishlist and then they don't correspond until the transfer window closes. Of course he's involved and consulted on decisions like this.
Who in the squad should be starting ahead of Antony? I understand that he's not justified his price tag but we're a considerably better side when he plays than when he doesn't.
Weghorst I somewhat understand because I do think he's probably been given more minutes than he should. With that said, in no way should he be used to make a point about Ten Hag's ability to identify talent. He was signed as a stop-gap because we were in a desperate situation up front and had basically no money to rectify it in January. There's no sign that we intend to keep him on in the summer.
Let's be honest, this is shaping up no better than an Ole season.
Top 4 is a minimum for a manchester united manager with the resources available to them.
If we fall out of top 4 then his future should be considered before backing him with hundreds of millions again.
If we hold top 4 then I still back him, but he will need a very astute transfer window.
Would prefer not to raid the erdivisie again, or to go anywhere near FDJ, that door should be closed.
Top 4 is a minimum for a manchester united manager with the resources available to them.
If we fall out of top 4 then his future should be considered before backing him with hundreds of millions again.
If we hold top 4 then I still back him, but he will need a very astute transfer window.
Would prefer not to raid the erdivisie again, or to go anywhere near FDJ, that door should be closed.
He's been backed plenty. The problem is that when he joined we probably had about six positions just in the first team that needed upgrading, and awful depth on top of that.
It was always going to take more than one summer to fix the absolute dumpster fire that Ten Hag inherited, and I largely think he's done very well in his first year.
Like I said adults discuss differently due to their understanding of the ways of the world.
Can bang on about needing better players for a style all we want but last night Brighton had Lewis dunk and welbeck doing it, Newcastle have Dan burn andnlongstaff, these are are hardly world beaters. it’s not always about needing the best players in every position to be able to play some decent football.
Said when?
Full of shite again, Einstein?
"Fix it by being the manager and do manager stuff as he promised the board."
"He promised the club to be the manager the club need."
What promise? What do the club need?
As for Antony, the way he's played and the way Pellistri has looked in his cameos, there's absolutely no reason why the latter shouldn't at least have been given a chance from the start at some point. But it hasn't happened. There's also the option of playing Bruno from the right. And of course there was the option of buying a better player for all that money. ETH had been coaching Antony for two years and should know better than anyone about his obvious limitations.
As for Wout, well, there is the sign that ETH at one point indicated he was considering making it permanent. I hope and think he has changed his mind since then but if he ever considered it, that's worrying. And again, emergency signing or not, I don't buy the idea that we couldn't have found a single striker better than such a bad striker.
Needs a better 1st eleven, and more strength in depth. Simple as. Heggs and homelettes.
So I absolutely think he needs more time etc and on one hand if there are individual errors - the handball, players missing good chances at this level there's only so much he can do. This is an important test for him, top 4 is still very much in our control and so it will be great if he can see it through.
But that said I still don't quite get our approach. A lot of people say we are tired and so drop of in the 2nd half, which is understandable, but then why don't we ever try to play a more controlled game (or change tactics during a game to do this)? We are so aggressive when we get the ball, attempting ambitious passes that leave us open to the counter/giving the ball back a lot. I really can't believe the players are incapable of doing this. In fairness this is an issue which existed pre ETH but I do struggle to see how we'll push on without addressing this as without a really lethal attack/ luck in defence it just feels we're leaving ourselves more exposed to risk in games. Further this is deeper than some of the fringe players e.g. Fred, Bruno/Rashford as our star players for example are quite guilty of giving possession away easily and have done so for a while now.
But that said I still don't quite get our approach. A lot of people say we are tired and so drop of in the 2nd half, which is understandable, but then why don't we ever try to play a more controlled game (or change tactics during a game to do this)? We are so aggressive when we get the ball, attempting ambitious passes that leave us open to the counter/giving the ball back a lot. I really can't believe the players are incapable of doing this. In fairness this is an issue which existed pre ETH but I do struggle to see how we'll push on without addressing this as without a really lethal attack/ luck in defence it just feels we're leaving ourselves more exposed to risk in games. Further this is deeper than some of the fringe players e.g. Fred, Bruno/Rashford as our star players for example are quite guilty of giving possession away easily and have done so for a while now.
And we DO play some decent football. People in here are acting like we've just rocked up to every game this season, stunk out the place, and somehow fluked our way into the top four. That is not the case at all.
Yes, there are still issues with the side. There were always going to be. The team Ten Hag inherited was an incoherent mess; frankly, I think he's done a pretty bloody good job with it.
He's done fine, very well is a huge stretch.
There's no joined up thinking when it comes to transfers. Why did we spend so much in the summer on two players when we needed six? Why are we only shopping for players close to £100m or free transfers? There's a bunch of very good players in between those two extremes. Other clubs seem to be able to find these players yet we have to shop at Real Madrid or the Championship/Dutch league.
I can absolutely guarantee you one thing though, the squad won't get fixed this summer either and we'll start the season without a striker or needing more midfielders.
IT's different for a Brighton or a Brentford to be able to effectively gamble on these type of players. They have the luxury of not having high expectations, either from the media or their fans. We could (and have) signed young players from other leagues, but they have to be ready from the start to hit the ground running and be able to handle the expectation of being a first team player at the most scrutinised club in the world when it comes to media and opposition fans dying to stick the knife in.
We don;t have the luxury of playing a young player into form, especially in the central areas. We have done that effectively with Garnacho, but that's because he's a top level talent, but he still needed time to settle and we had the luxury of an easy cup run to be able to do that.
Straight comparisons between club spending such as these isn't really accurate.
Brighton have Caicedo and McAllister in midfield. We had McFred + unfit Pogba
Brighton have Mitoma/March/Trossard (ex) on the wings, we had Elanga, Lingard, misfiring Rashford (who was terrible last season), and Sancho (was terrible last season).
And I remember at the time, there were many saying that we had a team that should be challenging, as all these signings rolled in. It's slowly become 'top 4 is a successful season' as time has gone on and we've looked worse and worse.
I don’t know how you forgot the entire first half of the season up to Jan when he was getting praised constantly for his subs.
I think Eriksen should’ve come on yeah but starting Fred was good because we needed to cope with their runners in midfield.
He needs better midfield options. Brainless when in possession.
Nobody was claiming any of those Brighton players were better than the likes of Sancho, Rashford or Pogba.
We even had the likes of Garnacho and Iqbal who we thought would break through this season. Iqbal has never had a sniff.
Not strictly true, we are yet to play Bournemouth and West Ham so we have only 6 wins. I pointed out yesterday that should we fail to win either, we will have only won 2 games against top 15 opposition.
Yep, goalposts have been well and truly moved during the season. Our squad is made out as being much worse than it is in order to defend ETH.
The truth is ETH can field a central defence of players he either bought as first-teamers (Martinez) or wouldn't replace (Varane), a left-back he wouldn't replace (Shaw), a central midfield of players he either bought as first-teamers (Eriksen, Casemiro) or wouldn't replace (Bruno) and two wingers he either bought as first-teamers (Antony) or wouldn't replace (Rashford). That's plenty to work with as a manager. Every team has players that could be upgraded, but your job is to get them playing to your tune.
Brighton is a fully well oiled machine. Those players in Brighton's system will play so much better compared to playing in another team.
The point is, Brighton didn't need to spend 200 million pounds to be competitive. We needed to.
@pocco just wanted to say you posted some excellent points in this page.
Yesterday is not really a huge issue. We lost to a freak last gasp goal from a penalty, having played decently in the first half and naturally being out of breath in the second half because of how the squad had been managed prior to that. It was actually a much better performance than I anticipated against a very solid, in-form Brighton team, I was expecting us to get hammered there.
I don't think anyone expecting a title challenge was rational at the time but you'd expect a comfortable top 4 finish and for the team to get better throughout the year.
I'm not comfortable with people saying we should be fighting for the league but I feel equally perplexed at people trying to claim a top 4 finish will be miraculous work. If you didn't expect us to finish top 4 having spent almost quarter of a billion, with three key top 4 contenders falling apart early in the season, then it's probably never to be expected of us ever again.
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