Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[bosnian_red]

Do we have a problem unearthing young talent that can go on to become world beaters.
What is our scouting department up to?

Do we really need to be in the market for 100m+ players from other clubs? We should have capable youngsters able to step up to the 1st team.

Garnacho has come in this season. Last one turned out to be scum but also he was an elite talent in a position we sorely lack right now. How many youngsters come through at city, Arsenal, Liverpool, Madrid or Barca year on year?

 

[croadyman]

I think he's done a great job this season, the reason he's over played certain players is because he knows their replacements aren't up to scratch. The drop off from Bruno, Eriksen and Casemiro to anything including Fred and McT is too much. Can't say I blame him for not wanting to look at either or those two clowns in midfield.

He's inherited a woeful collection of footballers, the technical levels just aren't high enough, not enough players who are comfortable and good on the ball. He's had to compromise by sitting deeper and trying to hit teams on the break. This is not his style, but it's probably the best he can do with this group of players. Eriksen, Martinez and Antony are all very technical footballers used to playing a certain way, but they aren't enough. He needs another window or two to get rid of the dross and bring 6 or 7 players with better technical levels on the ball to impose his style.

Ambitious owner would let Erik bring in 6/7 this summer rather than across two windows

 

[The United]

Not sure what he could've done today. It was a good, even game against a very good team that had 11 in-form players out there today.
We had some really good chances. Brighton are a better team than us currently and actually I was hoping this is the kind of team we will become under Ten Hag after a season.

I agreed that he couldn't have done much better today. It would have been much easier to manage the game in the second half if we had converted a couple of early chances. His replacement of Fred for the line-up for Eriksen improved our performance against them this time around, at least for the first half.

Of course, his game management in the second half is concerning in general but we hope it is due to a lack of squad depth.

 

[In Rainbows]

Good post.

The real issues are further back but unfortunately people are oblivious to the changing dynamics in the EPL where resisting and evading pressure in the first phase has become much more important than it once was.

So for a head coach who wants to implement positional play in a vertical axis, he has to build his attack from the back and defense from the front. Hence Liverpool and City have been the dominant forces in recent years by developing teams over several years who are capable of playing through the press and raising the defensive line from the back. Aswell as having the players upfront who will defend from the front, and assist and score due to those guys at the back providing a strong platform, which creates a compact high block, where the opponent is pinned in their own half.

I think the problem is the hypothetical, what if we had our perfect players in the back, gk, and midfield. Would Antony still be acceptable? He's giving you exactly what you said by maintaining width, being good with possession in the middle third, and does provide more defending than most attackers. However, with more control, United would give him even more chances to do damage in the final 3rd.

Do you actually have faith he can provide more with more chances to attack? Sure from the standpoint of his rate being stable in attack, but I personally have a problem with his rate. He doesn't create anything. His only attacking move is the cut in curler. If he were showing more, but his chance creation wasn't finished off due to abnormal lack of finishing from teammates, or he could dribble past his defender and pull back which didn't end up in any shot, or he had consistent crosses that had no one around, then maybe I would believe more in his prospects.

I don't see that. The one skill he has where he's dangerous is his shooting from the edge of the box is the one skill I can normally see it end up regressing in another season, because it's far more difficult to replicate with regularity.

 

[Ahmer Baig]

ETH and his subs once again letting us down. The rigidity that he has shown is continuing with players despite their poor performace will be his downfall.

 

[croadyman]

Well I agree that calling it a waste is a bit of a stretch but I subjectively thought it was a waste of time. Martinez was done pretty early, bringing in Eriksen as a free-agent or Malacia as a cheap punt from Netherlands wasn't what most people were waiting for. Maybe it is coincidence in this case but to me it was obvious from the start, that FDJ wasn't willing to come so I consider it a waste of time chasing him all summer and getting involved with that ridiculous theatrics of the Barcelona lever society. Mostly because FDJs price would have taken a big chunk of the supposed transfer budget. Again, not putting the blame solely on ETH. But I guess if he would have said "if option A isn't there by date X, go for option B so we make sure to have options available during the season". The late arrivals messed a bit with the pre-season as well.


I get your point but it is from a perspective that is set on Antony as the only available option for RW. If that would have been true, I'd have an easier time understanding things but at the end of the day we obviously overpayed for a player who would have suprised almost everybody if he had set the league on fire from the start. If you need an RW but the budget isn't enough for option A, go for Option B. Also I am not sure about the transfer budget having been increased after the first two games. As I said, I read that the outlay from Antony came from supposedly transfer budgets of winter and following summer. We will see, how it turns out.


Yes.


Wouldn't call it impossible. Not like nobody knew United before ETH joined so I am sure there would have been a chance to gain a good amount of information before spending too much time. Didn't he decline the offer to talk to Rangnick to learn his evaluations on the players? To be sure, not a stick to beat ETH, he obviously is free to choose how to spend his time but indicating that he simply didn't knew feels a bit shallow. Plus a few acquisitions or targets could have been identified no matter what ETH thought of the players available.


I see your point but I wouldn't agree with it. We see how Bruno is played from the right, we have seen KDB played more or less on the right as well. So I wouldn't let me get boxed into "better overpay than nothing". I agree, there aren't many great options around and I admit, it shouldn't be on ETH to come up with options who would fit the bill. But to be completely honest - I have hoped that right after ETH was announced that the club would start buzzing preparing scouting reports, create lists and options and so on - to avoid one situation: be unprepared when the window starts and waste time. Time that would have been needed for a preparation on the training pitch in pre-season. We brought in a CB pretty early, were in contacts with Eriksen and bought Malacia. But everybody was waiting for midfielder and RW. If those two positions were identified as most important priorities, I think it doesn't shine a good light on everybody involved seeing it dragged out. I admit: thats criticism on a high level. But especially because ETH was expected to have quite a task modernizing our team, we should have moved heaven and earth to get the squad together as early as possible.


I agree with you. And I don't expect a 100% rate of transfer success. I expect to avoid big mistakes. And paying around double of the price for not-too-great reputation wise Brazilian right-wing from with moderate numbers in the Dutch league (seemingly including risking future transfers with it) has a huge risk of becoming a big mistake. Early days and hopefully Antony turns it around. I still expect the club to not repeat such mistakes. Our track record for big fees is as bad as it gets. For such numbers I expect to buy players who are ready to contribute from day 1 on. As you say - the challenge ahead for ETH, considering the mess the current squad has been created in, was always going to need a lot of new personal. For the 85million we could have gotten two players. None of them the best of the world probably. But sure better that what we had AND closer to the PL average.


I agree 100%. But I think that ETH could have instilled a bit of urgency if he had wanted to. I don't know if I am right but seeing how the rest of the transfer team acted on his targets, I guess they would have changed targets if he wanted them to.#

Lets conclude it like that: I don't consider last years transfers as big failure. Neither as big success. For sure the way things were handled shouldn't be a blueprint for the future. If this can be established, I'd be over the moon.

Yeah in hindsight we should have found a RW and decent ST for that £85m we paid

 

[Member 117152]

He’s had a great season really. Top 4 and 2 potential trophy’s can’t argue.

Is he the man to win us a league title? While Pep is here. No.

City have constructed a winning machine. It will take us at least a few years probably more 3-5 to reach their level. (That would be an amazing achievement if we did)

You don’t compete with a side that good in a season or two. FFP will hold our club back in the summer and for the next 12 months. We won’t see drastic improvements until about 24 months from now even with giant investment.

The rot set in too deep.

Things like the training ground been reconstructed will help but again not for the foreseeable future. Too much needs doing short term.

 

[kouroux]

I know people are really disappointed. Me too! But frankly speaking, many foresee a result like this whenever we play a high press team. We got a result from villa game but failed here by the last moment handball. I guess we are just so frustrated about the fact Brighton is playing a much better football than us. Next season we will be a different team if the glazers are gone soon. The priority has to be a new goalkeeper first and foremost. I think we won’t be out of the top four when the season is over.

Jackpot, I went from admiring Brighton to despising them

 

[The United]

He’s had a great season really. Top 4 and 2 potential trophy’s can’t argue with our squad.

Is he the man to win us a league title? While Pep is here perhaps not but that’s not Ten Hag’s fault.

City have constructed a winning machine. It will take us at least a few years probably more 3-5 to reach their level. (If we ever do)

You don’t compete with a side that good in a season or two. FFP will hold our club back in the summer as well for the next 12 months at least. We won’t see drastic improvements until about 24 months from now even with giant investment.

Things like the training ground been reconstructed will help but again not for the foreseeable future.

Agreed that It will take time to get to the level where we can win the EPL title. ETH might even get sacked before we get to that level, especially if Pep stays on.

 

[kouroux]

He’s had a great season really. Top 4 and 2 potential trophy’s can’t argue with our squad.

Is he the man to win us a league title? While Pep is here perhaps not but that’s not Ten Hag’s fault.

City have constructed a winning machine. It will take us at least a few years probably more 3-5 to reach their level. (If we ever do)

You don’t compete with a side that good in a season or two. FFP will hold our club back in the summer as well for the next 12 months at least. We won’t see drastic improvements until about 24 months from now even with giant investment.

Things like the training ground been reconstructed will help but again not for the foreseeable future.

I think you can remove the "perhaps", it's safe to say that as long as Pep is here with his super cheated team, we won't win the league and even without them, we'd find it really tough

 

[croadyman]

I know people are really disappointed. Me too! But frankly speaking, many foresee a result like this whenever we play a high press team. We got a result from villa game but failed here by the last moment handball. I guess we are just so frustrated about the fact Brighton is playing a much better football than us. Next season we will be a different team if the glazers are gone soon. The priority has to be a new goalkeeper first and foremost. I think we won’t be out of the top four when the season is over.

So you are prioritising GK over ST & CM?

 

[city-puma]

So you are prioritising GK over ST & CM?

Definitely. The next priority is ST and then CM.

 

[KikiDaKats]

It’s now that time of the season I stop giving managers the benefit of doubt.
Our current approach is not sustainable and will need altering. His team is not performing well but he is able to get results to keep us lively. I’m sick of this lack of quality talk because the inept ones should not be anywhere near the 11 at this point.
We are 6/7 games to the end of the season and the team looks disjointed but we are deliberately trying to ignore the truth on the pitch. At this rate mid next season is when the team might start resembling a unit. We all love ETH and believed in what we saw at Ajax but he needs to figure out a way of getting this team playing as a functional team.
That 11 had better quality than the opposition but they played like minnows instead of being the big boys. He needs to get them playing like big boys or these child footballers will get him the sack.

 

[Member 117152]

Agreed that It will take time to get to the level where we can win the EPL title. ETH might even get sacked before we get to that level, especially if Pep stays on.

If we ever do get there as well. It’s unrealistic to think we’ll ever be as good as this City side.

We had our best moments as a club playing underdog in big games. They go into matches Vs Madrid for example as favourites every time.

We’ve barely ever had that privilege even in our dominant days. 2007-08 only time I can remember us been the best side in Europe. 1999 we were an underdog side.

Juventus looked scary compared to us that season so did Bayern. Barcelona too in the group.

 

[kouroux]

GK is nowhere the near the main priority and I say this as someone who wants DDG to go.

 

[croadyman]

GK is nowhere the near the main priority and I say this as someone who wants DDG to go.

Would have it 4th for me

 

[city-puma]

Looks like club don't see it the same sadly

I think they see and want to change it, but the takeover in the current pace doesn’t seem good at all. Without the change of ownership, I can’t be very optimistic for the next season, TBH.

 

[croadyman]

I think they see and want to change it, but the takeover in the current pace doesn’t seem good at all. Without the change of ownership, I can’t be very optimistic for the next season, TBH.

Got zero optimism if these leeches stay because will go same way as others and Erik either ends up sacked or walks himself

 

[ti vu]

It’s now that time of the season I stop giving managers the benefit of doubt.
Our current approach is not sustainable and will need altering. His team is not performing well but he is able to get results to keep us lively. I’m sick of this lack of quality talk because the inept ones should not be anywhere near the 11 at this point.
We are 6/7 games to the end of the season and the team looks disjointed but we are deliberately trying to ignore the truth on the pitch. At this rate mid next season is when the team might start resembling a unit. We all love ETH and believed in what we saw at Ajax but he needs to figure out a way of getting this team playing as a functional team.
That 11 had better quality than the opposition but they played like minnows instead of being the big boys. He needs to get them playing like big boys or these child footballers will get him the sack.

2 first choice CBs out. We don't really have starting 8. Eriksen who is calmer midfielder than Fred, didn't play today. Martial is our best CF and he's not good enough. DDG is no ball playing, nor sweeper GK.

We have no proper spine, punt intended or not. Of course, it's not sustainable to play an expansive style like this because we're reliant on a defensive no6, a combination of 2 quick transition attackers in Bruno, and Rashford to get this team result. The team is clearly unbalanced. We got what we're worth with our unbalanced team.

 

[croadyman]

2 first choice CBs out. We don't really have starting 8. Eriksen who is calmer midfielder than Fred, didn't play today. Martial is our best CF and he's not good enough. DDG is no ball playing, nor sweeper GK.

We have no proper spine, punt intended or not. Of course, it's not sustainable to play an expansive style like this because we're reliant on a defensive no6, a combination of 2 quick transition attackers in Bruno, and Rashford to get this team result.

Certainly no spine away from Old Trafford

 

[Toshey]

Even at our best under SAF we had countless dodgy away games where we were outplayed but managed to sneak the win with a world class strike.
But to do that, you need world class striker.

And this was not even such game - it was even.
We created more than enough to win this. Martial miss is as bad as it gets.
Our "strike force" on the bench is ridiculously low level.

Rashy hit a great form this season and still he makes a lot of baffling decisions in the final third, can't count how many of his shots get blocked, leading to counter, when he has options to pass.

ETH improved many things but it was never going to be enough to just get 5 players in.

Ragnick said we needed 11 new players and was absolutely correct.

And we are fatigued badly, next week is the first we dont have midweek game since ages!

Be rational and stop embarrassing yourselves. This thread will look extremely stupid at the end of the season.

 

[croadyman]

Even at our best under SAF we had countless dodgy away games where we were outplayed but managed to sneak the win with a world class strike.
But to do that, you need world class striker.

And this was not even such game - it was even.
We created more than enough to win this. Martial miss is as bad as it gets.
Our "strike force" on the bench is ridiculously low level.

Rashy hit a great form this season and still he makes a lot of baffling decisions in the final third, can't count how many of his shots get blocked, leading to counter, when he has options to pass.

ETH improved many things but it was never going to be enough to just get 5 players in.

Rangnick said we needed 11 new players and was absolutely correct.

And we are fatigued badly, next week is the first we dont have midweek game since ages!

Be rational and stop embarrassing yourselves. This thread will look extremely stupid at the end of the season.

Have managed to come up with 8 players which are GK,CB,RB,DM,CM,AM,STx2. So what would be the other 3 then?

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

GK is nowhere the near the main priority and I say this as someone who wants DDG to go.

First for me.

There is simply no point in trying to play a vertical positional game without a competent sweeper GK.

If we don't bring in a GK, Ten Hag again has to compromise on our build-up structure.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Less on motivation and more on fatigue... Playing 15-20 games more than the opponent will do that to you. Also doesn't seem to have a problem motivating them in big cup games or any home games.

Hey, that is a reality that will hit any single team that goes on a quest to win it all or to get at least something on all fronts. City and Liverpool in recent years are no different, especially City this year.

And for the record, top 4 is not secure yet.

 

[DJ_21]

First for me.

There is simply no point in trying to play a vertical positional game without a competent sweeper GK.

If we don't bring in a GK, Ten Hag again has to compromise on our build-up structure.

So you think we need a GK more then a ST? Last nights game says different. We created tons of chances and couldn’t finish them. DDG made some good saves last night and would have got another clean sheet if not for the penalty.

 

[Toshey]

We got in world class CB, RW with great potential, yoing LB, aging CM on a free and world class CDM.
So far so good.
Eric developed a future world class LW from our youth and managed to get him on a new contract.

Surely you can't count Wout and Sabitzer as serious signings! They are panic loans.

We need two STs, GK who can do more than shot stopping and a ball playing CM.
There is a reason why Eric pushed so hard for FDJ - he knows his position is key for our play. And often we have Fred there.

Just 4 signings this summer will improve us massively. Can we make them?
Under these owners I seriously doubt it.

 

[dal]

See there are some idiotic posts on here. We have our two first choice centre backs out and our first choice left back playing in central defence.

Ten Hag has brought players who fit into his style, next season he will know that he has three key signing to make, a central midfielder, a centre forward and a centre back to compete with our current two first choices.

We all expected us to tail off as we don’t have the squad, if he makes these signings which he will already know, I expect us to challenge next season.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

So you think we need a GK more then a ST? Last nights game says different. We created tons of chances and couldn’t finish them. DDG made some good saves last night and would have got another clean sheet if not for the penalty.

Brighton had a better xG than we did.

We actually don't carve out that many chances throughout the season.

I think a competent sweeper GK allows us to control the game better, pin teams back more and garner a greater territorial advantage.

People focus on 1-2 saves from DDG that literally every GK in the league makes, but completely ignore the shortcomings that come from him as a GK.

Any team can press us with ease, because DDG is not comfortable with the ball at his feet nor is he good at distributing it.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

See there are some idiotic posts on here. We have our two first choice centre backs out and our first choice left back playing in central defence.

Ten Hag has brought players who fit into his style, next season he will know that he has three key signing to make, a central midfielder, a centre forward and a centre back to compete with our current two first choices.

We all expected us to tail off as we don’t have the squad, if he makes these signings which he will already know, I expect us to challenge next season.

You forgot a 4th key signing. A GK.

 

[croadyman]

First for me.

There is simply no point in trying to play a vertical positional game without a competent sweeper GK.

If we don't bring in a GK, Ten Hag again has to compromise on our build-up structure.

Well he better get more demanding then and stop just accepting these contract situations

 

[KikiDaKats]

2 first choice CBs out. We don't really have starting 8. Eriksen who is calmer midfielder than Fred, didn't play today. Martial is our best CF and he's not good enough. DDG is no ball playing, nor sweeper GK.

We have no proper spine, punt intended or not. Of course, it's not sustainable to play an expansive style like this because we're reliant on a defensive no6, a combination of 2 quick transition attackers in Bruno, and Rashford to get this team result. The team is clearly unbalanced. We got what we're worth with our unbalanced team.

That’s on the manager for me. It’s his team and his responsibility. If he believes Bruno and Rashford are the players he should build he general play around, then make it work and let’s not keep going on about lacking quality because they are quality enough in his eyes.
Unbalanced? Again, his responsibility.

Time we start asking the questions people are scared of and stop hiding behind injuries, quality and schedule. Like I said losing doesn’t bother me but it’s the disjointed nature of our performances that’s not sat well. If we need individuals to drag us through games on numerous occasions then the unit is not working right.

He has to fix it.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Well he better get more demanding then and stop just accepting these contract situations

I would hope so.

I hope he sticks to his guns and doesn't compromise. I was hoping we'd see more and more improvements of being able to bypass a press(like Brighton), but we've reverted to type.

If we still play football next season like we did vs Brighton, I'd be very disappointed.

 

[ti vu]

That’s on the manager for me. It’s his team and his responsibility. If he believes Bruno and Rashford are the players he should build he general play around, then make it work and let’s not keep going on about lacking quality because they are quality enough in his eyes.
Unbalanced? Again, his responsibility.

Time we start asking the questions people are scared of and stop hiding behind injuries, quality and schedule. Like I said losing doesn’t bother me but it’s the disjointed nature of our performances that’s not sat well. If we need individuals to drag us through games on numerous occasions then the unit is not working right.

He has to fix it.

How do you suppose to fix it?

For example: Do you think any manager out there to coach DDG into a proper ball playing sweeper GK? If it's to drop him now, for who? It's not like you buy players mid season.

One example, apply to other positions. Where are replacement for the mismatched players?

 

[croadyman]

How do you suppose to fix it?

For example: Do you think any manager out there to coach DDG into a proper ball playing sweeper GK? If it's to drop him now, for who? It's not like you buy players mid season.

Would keep him until end of season but then needs to be gone with best wishes. To answer your question I want Maignan/Costa

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

If he really wants a Costa then bloody well start demanding he is signed and not taking sloppy seconds instead

Again, I agree.

I just worry he won't stick to his guns in regards to a GK for some reason.

I mean he tried playing out from the back with De Gea in the beginning and quickly realize it can't be done. I don't know how he thought he could, but hopefully next season, he rectifies it.

 

[croadyman]

Again, I agree.

I just worry he won't stick to his guns in regards to a GK for some reason.

I mean he tried playing out from the back with De Gea in the beginning and quickly realize it can't be done. I don't know how he thought he could, but hopefully next season, he rectifies it.

Well if he doesn't that looks weak in fans eyes

 

[gajender]

Hey, that is a reality that will hit any single team that goes on a quest to win it all or to get at least something on all fronts. City and Liverpool in recent years are no different, especially City this year.

And for the record, top 4 is not secure yet.

Well the reality is we aren't good enough Like City's and Liverpool of the world to have so many games in truncated season .

Due to lack of quality , injuries and obvious gaps in the first team we seldom have comfortable games so it's just not the physical fatigue but also the mental exhaustion our players are dealing with .

So unless we ignore the context completely then no our reality is quite different from City and Liverpool . But having said all this not Making top 4 would still be inexcusable .

 

[croadyman]

We got in world class CB, RW with great potential, yoing LB, aging CM on a free and world class CDM.
So far so good.
Eric developed a future world class LW from our youth and managed to get him on a new contract.

Surely you can't count Wout and Sabitzer as serious signings! They are panic loans.

We need two STs, GK who can do more than shot stopping and a ball playing CM.
There is a reason why Eric pushed so hard for FDJ - he knows his position is key for our play. And often we have Fred there.

Just 4 signings this summer will improve us massively. Can we make them?
Under these owners I seriously doubt it.

Needs to move on from fecking De Jong he has played Erik all along,so what are these 4 signings that Erik needs to make this summer

 

[ti vu]

Would keep him until end of season but then needs to be gone with best wishes. To answer your question I want Maignan/Costa

Easy to say we want to sign this and that. The question here is right now we're hearing rumor about our 100mil budget. Those GK may eat up half or more of that budget. I am not aware of a quality CF for 50mil.

What if the incompetent Football Director did just that by telling ETH that he has 100mil to spend, and goes do his homework. They can't offer any alternative.

ETH would have an option of resigning or sorting his priority. A quality goal scorer is more impactful to get result than GK. Liverpool did their rebuild that way.

 

[kouroux]

First for me.

There is simply no point in trying to play a vertical positional game without a competent sweeper GK.

If we don't bring in a GK, Ten Hag again has to compromise on our build-up structure.

We lack goals bro, we have one scoring source that went through a ridiculous purple patch. We create chances but don't score nearly enough. With more goals in the team, the ripple effect touches the defence and keeper. Everyone would play with confidence.
I don't see how having a ball playing GK significantly improves our scoring